Talk:University of the State of New York

Regents College / Excelsior College / External degree program
A contributor recently vandalized the first paragraph of the article. I've corrected this. - Ellis (5/25/12)

A contributor seems to be committed to making the USNY's former external degree program (now operated as Excelsior College, which is appropriately covered in a separate article), the main theme of the USNY article.

I have reverted these changes twice, and will do so again, for the following reasons:
 * I cannot see any reason to replace the infobox footnote "*This is the motto of the State of New York, which appears on the University Seal" with information about the former external degree program.
 * The language that was inserted in the infobox read more like an advertising blurb than an encyclopedia article: "USNY is also a degree-granting body in its own right. It conferred degrees for quarter of a century, and today, well over 50,000 people hold bachelor and associate diplomas directly issued in the name of The University of the State of New York."
 * I substituted "However, from 1971 through 1998, USNY did directly confer degrees via its Regents external degree program," and I did it in a manner that did not overwrite the footnote about the motto.

--orlady 03:32, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Adding three paragraphs about the history of the external degree program to the article summary section implies that the external degree program is the main mission of USNY. (AFAICT, it is not.) The same material is already in the Excelsior College article.
 * Seeing the other contributor's concern about increasing the topic's visibility I did create a new subsection specifically for the former Regents College program. (Most of the content of that subsection was already in the USNY article; I merely relabeled it.)

Erroneous and redundant?
I am totally baffled by the edit summary for this edit. What was "erroneous and redundant" about the narrative that I added? Where is the "contrasting viewpoint" left intact? (I see nothing in the article left intact.)--orlady 05:56, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

I continue to be baffled. Even my spelling corrections to this article have been reverted, now allegedly in the name of "equal weight to opposing views". If you want "tolerance and civility," please discuss your concerns here.--orlady 13:27, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

USNY as a degree-granting institution
I am a 1995 graduate of the University of the State of New York, (B.S. Honors). My degree diploma states USNY, and not Excelsior or Regents College. For many years ALL major encyclopedias expressly mentioned the paragraph stating that USNY was also degree- granting university in, and of itself. In fact, some of these encyclopedic articles called it" one of the oldest state universities in the U.S." Since 1784, USNY was New York State's premier "accrediting" umbrella institution, accrediting all other schools, colleges, and universities. However, it also granted its own degrees from 1981, until 1998. Thus, it played a "dual role" within New York's educational history, as well as that of the U.S. Thereby, placing USNY in an unique historical footnote of the "world's first prestigious external degree- granting institutions, together with the   University of London, and the British Open University.  Therefore, it is fitting that an article that discusses USNY as an institution of "higher learning" in all it encompassing meaning, also state the period of the university's degree-granting past, as it actually still holds that authority granted to it by the New York State Legislature in 1784. Temple Barrister 21:07, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Was your degree obtained through the "external degree program"? Do you have citable references for the information that you think the article should include? (Note that your personal experience cannot be used as the basis for an article.)--orlady 04:08, 26 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Interestingly enough, you cite: James D. Folts, History of the University of the State of New York and the State Education Department, 1784 - 1996, 1996. In his section on Higher Education, he goes on to discuss the degree- granting era of the university itself.  Moreover, what I state above is simply a matter of common knowledge, as over 25,000 or more individuals obtained their degrees doing this time from USNY.  As you may know, Regents College was just the educational entity, but the degrees were awarded by USNY.  This is all in Excelsior College's own literature, which as you know it was formerly Regents, then subsequently went on its own and became a separate entity. Although still within the auspice of USNY.  I  guess that anyone can do some legal research and search for the initial enabling legislation in the NY State Statutes, which granted such authority over to the USNY.  Also, many encyclopedias of 1980- 1990s, state the precise reference I made earlier very well.  Hence, what I state is a well- known fact.  In any court of law, to prove such evidence, all one would need to do is assert "judicial notice," as this is all well- known historical fact, recorded in multiple sources. It is obvious that my personal experience cannot be cited, but it is nevertheless a fact, together with that of another 25,000 or more recipients of these degrees, which is the question here. It is also the reason I mentioned my degree, as a personal, first- hand source.  The rest can be obtained from many other sources, including the USNY website: http://www.nysed.gov. Also see: http://www.nationalponsi.org/profiles/excelsior_college.htm

Yes, one of my bachelors is from USNY (not Regents or Excelsior, mind you) as I said. I also hold another bachelor, two masters, two law degrees (LLB and LLM) and a PhD, all from accredited well established traditional universities. Should you care to see my own CV, I will be more than happy to forward it to you, should you return the same courtesy, as I am very proud of my education and overall credentials.

Moreover, I have written may articles and two books, (which initially came out of my graduate schools dissertations) in law and economics. I was a law and economics professor for many years, before returning to practice. My own work has been cited in other journals a number of times, and I have served as an overseer /reviewer for new manuscripts for various publishers. If you write the article, you should do your own research. These discussions are meant as further contributions and/or continued edification of the same, hence, suggestions should be welcome. From my point of view, it is not criticism, albeit constructive, it is an indication or road map to more material, facts and added veracity, thus, making the article more complete and accurate. This in turn, lends more credibility to the article, the contributors, and the encyclopedia as a whole.

All I was pointing out is that the era of USNY degree- granting past, is a fact. It is history, and it was NOT a separate college or entity of USNY, it was one and the same, until the creation of Excelsior College. I have now written to the Board of Regents of USNY, in clarification of the same. Thank you. TempleBarrister 13:57, 26 April 2007 (UTC) 13:44, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

FROM TEXT:Regents College
 * Interesting, but I don't see any sourced information that is substantively different from what is in the USNY article and the Excelsior College article. Here's what's in the current USNY article (not including hyperlinks): NOTE IN INFOBOX: As explained in the text, USNY is not a "bricks and mortar" school, but an accrediting and chartering body. However, from 1971 through 1998, USNY did directly confer degrees via its Regents external degree program.

A key former initiative of USNY, created to better bring higher education to New York State's nontraditional adult learners, was the Regents College external degree program, now the separate and independent Excelsior College. This program was an outgrowth of the practice of giving World War II veterans school and college credit in recognition of their military education and experience. In 1963 the Regents introduced College Proficiency Examinations (now called Regents College Examinations), initially to help teachers and nurses complete educational requirements. the Regents External Degrees program was established in 1971 with financial support from the Ford and Carnegie Foundations. Degrees could be granted based a combination of college proficiency exams and classroom and correspondence courses. The first degrees were conferred in 1972. This program, named Regents College in 1984, became independent of the Education Department in 1991 but continued to be governed by the Board of Regents until 1998 when it severed its relationship with the Board of Regents to become a private college. The school adopted the name Excelsior College in 2001. Excelsior College is now a constituent member of USNY in the same way that other colleges and universities in New York State are, but it has had its own charter and Board of Trustees. --orlady 17:32, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

FYI: Page protection
The article was fully protected at my request about 48 hours ago (on 6 April 2007 (UTC)) so that the differences of opinion about its contents could be discussed on this talk page, instead of in a revert war. --orlady 13:20, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

USNY structure/purpose
Hi, orlady, thanks for bringing to my attention the current editing issues in regards to the USNY article. I have kindly responded to you on my Talk page, but I'll add a few other tidbits which hopefully help all concerned:

Quite possibly, the other contributor (whom you had the editing concerns with) had an understandable misunderstanding of the overarching USNY mission due to the term "University" forming part of the structure's name. It is indeed correct that USNY, as I authored in the article a while back and which you confirm, is the umbrella-organization structure in New York State for most educational institutions and much of the personnel in any way connected to formal educational functions in the State. While USNY can, in exceptional instances, still directly confer academic credentials, this is indeed not its overarching purpose today or ever in the past.

Regents College, later the independent Excelsior College, does indeed form a very notable part of USNY's history. However, in seeming alignment with you, a "good" USNY article should mostly talk about USNY's constituent members (schools, colleges, libraries, museums, etc.), its history dating from its oversight function for King's College (later Columbia University) with "modest" weight given to Regents/Excelsior College, and its relationship to the New York State Education Department and the USNY Board of Regents. (Btw, my indication of the "subordinate relationship" of NYSED to USNY, I feel, is "functionally" correct, although USNY/NYSED officials seem to not "officially" see the relationship this way; I'll see what I can do to modify this a bit to balance officialdom with a layperson's understandability of this relationship :) ).

Also, as indicated on my Talk page, I'll see what I can do to add an excellent chart which delineates who all the USNY members are, in a "precise-yet-elegant layperson's-understanding way." From my research related to USNY/NYSED, it seems that this membership listing is nebulously defined by many, if not most, New Yorkers; hence, I feel that such a chart would really help here :)

Thanks again, orlady, for your efforts here, and thanks to anyone else who has tried to improve this article in a substantive way. —Catdude 09:21, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Unprotect
I think this edit war seems over - we ought to unprotect this article or at least loosen it to semi-protection. 204.52.215.107 05:52, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Degree: accreditation
I deleted the sentence "Yet, any specific degree programs offered by any particular higher-education institution in New York State must be registered (i.e., accredited), on behalf of the Regents, by NYSED before the particular institution may offer such program or programs." because I could not find statutory authority in N.Y.S. Education Law (CLS ed.) requiring that a specific degree program be accredited by or registered with the State before it may be offered. In general, accreditation is performed by regional bodies and some other bodies, and I recall that the state does do some accrediting; but I believe accrediting is of the institution or the overall educational program of that institution, rather than of a particular degree program. One or two statutes referring to particular institutions grant degree-granting authority. It is possible, however, that the State does not grant a license to practice a profession based on study in N.Y.S. unless the degree program has been registered; and it is possible that registration is required by a State regulation (probably published in N.Y.C.R.R.) without that being the same thing as accreditation (in which case, "i.e." is in error). Thank you.

If the sentence is to be restored, please consider two minor edits: singularize "any specific degree programs" to ". . . program" and cut the second "particular" as redundant. Thank you.

Nick Levinson (talk) 19:48, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I had to flag it

 * I flagged the article for using only a single source and even then it's not incorporated into the article itself, but I don't know the code for that particular flag. Either way, it's time to add some more references to the article.

-Alan 24.184.184.130 (talk) 14:28, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Former film censorship role
Several articles about motion pictures on Wikipedia seem to indicate that at one point all motion pictures lawfully exhibited in the state of New York had to be licensed by the Board of Regents. Can someone add some good reliable sources for this to what would presumably be a new subsection of the "History" section of this article? 2600:1004:B118:340:7174:545F:BD7C:5114 (talk) 00:49, 24 January 2015 (UTC)