Talk:Unsere Besten

Comments
Someone had put Hitler at the top of this list, so I edited it. I think Hitler was actually banned from being voted for. Technically he was Austrian anyway. - Thom32, 17.55 March 2nd 2006

Hitler was Austrian until 1925, when he himself asked for relieve from the austrian nationality. In 1932 he became German, so Adolf Hitler was 'stateless' for 7 years.

the list is worth absolutely nothing. aired at a private channel of dubious cultural level and including showmasters!? --Tresckow 04:55, 23 July 2006 (UTC) --> thats wrong! the show aired on a public channel (ZDF, second german televison),1.showmaster is no word in english- thats a german 'invention' 2. the host is an well-known, famous and respected journalist 3. the cultural level was very high, the presentation of the candidates was done in a way so that people can understand what these people have done for germany and the world-- the presenters are higly accepted in germany and the world and the result (top 10) includes some of the worlds most famous people, people that have done many things for human beings and helped making our modern world as it is today

Why is Mozart on this list? He was an Austrian, not German, therefore he should have not been on this list (with all the due respect to the greatest composer of all times).

Norum  08.August.2006

Mozart was not Austrian in the modern meaning for two reasons: 1) At the time of Mozart, Austria was not an independant country, it was part of the Holy Roman Empire of German Nation. 2) Mozart was born in the Archbishopric of Salzburg, which was not part of the Habsburg realms. Anonytroll 11:50, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Hegel?
First, speaking as a Canadian student of law and philosophy, the absence of G.W.F. Hegel from this list is nothing short of bizarre: the broad scope of his insight and continuing influence on the world is undeniable. Many of the people who are on the list would not be there without having reacted to, or having been inspired by, Hegel's life and work.

Second, the presence of Nicolas Copernicus on the list is also bizarre. No one, from what I have observed, outside of Germany thinks that he was really German. The claim is similar to the proud and misguided Chinese belief that Genghis Khan was really Chinese and not Mongolian. Mjc100 06:30, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
 * well, this list and show were just done to entertain some people - nothing more. That are not facts but the opinions of some persons, who are not representative for all Germans (no one of my friends for exmple would vote for such a nonesense) or anyone else. So maybe fans of Daniel Küblböck know nothing about Hegel. And the case of Copernicuses nationality is not so easy (at least he had also a German mother ) and simply to say he was polish does also not represent the truth (by the way who cares if he was Polish, German or anything else)? And Silke Fritzen is by far the most important German. 84.181.99.8 12:08, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh, OK... I was unaware that Copernicus was half-German. And I do agree with your appraisal of Ms Fritzen; that's awesome.
 * Queen Victoria was half-German, had a German husband/cousin, and was almost entirely of German descent. Does she qualify as one of the most important Germans?74.36.193.97 13:19, 18 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Copernicus was an ethnic German in Poland which wasn't unheard of.--MacX85 (talk) 20:01, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Daniel Küblböck
Curious. There's no photo of Daniel Küblböck, although he ranked 15th. Was it left out deliberately? Well, I can imagine that since now, three years later, no one cares about him. His appereance on the list can only be explained by the hype at that time. In fact, it's shame to see him among these great people. And no, this is no discussion on D.K. but rather on the bias of the list and the article itself. - Jack&#39;s Revenge 11:34, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Deutsche Soldaten
Can someone explain whether or not German soldiers/sailors/airmen were specifically excluded from consideration? Or did Germans really not vote for them? There isn't a single military name on the list. Manfred von Richthofen, Kretschmer the U-Boat ace, Erich Hartmann the highest ranked figher ace in world history, Hans-Ulrich Rudel the most decorated officer in the Third Reich (and an unrepentant Nazi if his book Stuka Pilot is to be believed), Erwin Rommel (over-rated but popular), Heinz Guderian, etc., etc.139.48.81.98 21:38, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I guess German soldiers are neither well-known nor liked in Germany. They might be known to historians or experts. Most (ordinary) people in Germany don't know these names or at least not all of these names though. - Jack&#39;s Revenge 01:24, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, Otto Von Bismark is there. But I find it odd that Erwin Rommel, Carl von Clausewitz or Otto Skorzeny didn't make it.
 * I'm not. Germans despise their own military history, especially when it comes to the world wars. There is no way they would portray prominent military protagonists in a positive light on German TV except Stauffenberg maybe.--MacX85 (talk) 20:04, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Hello?!
What are you guys discussing here? The only purpose of the discussion feature is to discuss the accuracy of that article. The reason why German producers decided to put Mozart in that list is not an issue here. The only thing that counts are discrete facts about that show. Nobody cares if you agree with that list. Talk to the producers then! 87.187.199.247 (talk) 18:38, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Absolutely agree Angryadams (talk) 23:20, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

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Don't take this list too serious
some of you (here in the talk section) wonder about ppl in this list. point is, that it is based on a tv show, so don't it too serious.

for example: the mentioned Daniel Kübelböck. by the time (the vote was taken) he was an about 20year old wierd guy in a casting show. in tv was made lots of fun out of his behavior and appearance so the was quite popular for some months. since then, he didn't have any relevance in public, media or else. there are some more like him in that list.

what considers the soldiers, which someone mentioned, it's another thing. 1. military doens't have as much appearance in media and public's recognicion (changes a bit because of afghanisitan, but that's another topic) so ppl tend to now more inventors, scienentists, musicians an so on. 2. richthofen,rommel, clausewitz, surely rommel the most, are known in germany, but have no relevance in media. the other's mentioned, and i'm a political scientist, i've never heard of. so i guess this ppl are more popular in the writers country then in germany.

greetings from germany —Preceding unsigned comment added by LotP (talk • contribs) 13:52, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Silke Fritzen
It is true that there are no journalistic, academic or other (independent of the subject) reliable sources explaining who she is, but that is to be expected; Wikipedians simply have to come to terms with the fact that you cannot demand the provision of academic sources for transient pop culture phenomena, bands or athletes. However, for posterity, since other people may well be scratching their heads and wondering (just as I did myself) "Who the hell is Silke Fritzen?!", I will present the results of my research at least on the talk page, as even unreliable sources (outside of Wikipedia) are already rare and hard to come by at this point:

"How old is Silke Fritzen (born April 1, 1984 in Emden), the German woman who, still a schoolgirl, chosen the 125th greatest German in history in the 2003 ZDF-network program Unsere Besten ("Our Best")?"

"Reminds me of the Silke Fritzen phenomenon. A few years ago the ZDF (a major German TV network) did an "Unsere Besten" ranking, and people could pick the "best Germans" from a list of several hundred, but also add new entries. This way Silke Fritzen made it to the list, who at that time was 18, I think, and an admin in a sci-fi web forum. ;D"

"12410 kann nur deine Nummer sein wenn du Silke Fritzen heisst was ich bezweifle!" (Forum entry from 2002-08-31)

"Silke Fritzen (* 1. April 1984 in Emden ) erreichte 2003 bei der vom ZDF veranstalteten Wahl zum besten Deutschen den Platz 125 obwohl die Schülerin zu diesem Zeitpunkt der Allgemeinheit völlig unbekannt war.

Die unter objektiven Gesichtspunkten nicht gerechtfertigte Nennung als eine der 200 besten Deutschen hatte sie ihrer Tätigkeit als Administratorin eines großen deutschen Internet-Forums zum Thema Science Fiction zu verdanken. Ein Teilnehmer des Forums hatte dort zur Beteiligung an der Wahl des ZDF aufgerufen. Seine Absicht war es Silke Fritzen um die innerhalb des Forums schon vorher ein scherzhafter Kult betrieben wurde auf einen möglichst hohen Rang der Liste zu wählen. Belegt werden sollte damit auch dass es schwer zu ermitteln und subjektiv sei wer der beste Deutsche ist.

Das Wahlergebnis demonstriert eindrucksvoll die Anfälligkeit solcher Abstimmungen für Manipulationen. Die Vorgehensweise hat darüber hinaus auch Ähnlichkeit zu Flashmobs da es sich in beiden Fällen um über das Internet organisierte Massenveranstaltungen handelt."

This is the text of a deleted article from German Wikipedia. Translated: ''Silke Fritzen (born April 1, 1984, in Emden) achieved the 125th position at the voting for the best German, which was organised by the ZDF, although the schoolgirl was, at the time, completely unknown to the general public. The naming as on of the 200 best Germans, unjustified from an objective point of view, she had to thank her function as administrator of a large German Internet forum on the subject of science fiction. A participant of the forum had called for participation in the voting of the ZDF there (i. e., on the forum). His intention was to vote Silke Fritzen, who had been the subject of a humourous cult within the forum even before, to a position in the list which was as high as possible. This was also supposed to document that it is difficult to determine and subjective who the best German is. The voting result demonstrates impressively the vulnerability to manipulations of such votings. In addition, this approach resembles flash mobs, as both cases constitute mass events organised through the Internet.''

It also contains a weblink to the Scifi-Forum at the end, named "Aufruf zur Wahl", i. e. "Call for vote".

(Moreover, I have found a Facebook account which evidently belongs to the same person, and a Twitter account which also seems to belong to her.)

This should clear up the mystery. :-) (As an aside, I cannot help but notice the similarity of this case to a recent event where a Facebook group was founded to drum up support for the naming of a tunnel in honour of Bud Spencer through participation in a voting on the website of the municipality of Schwäbisch Gmünd, because of the promise of the local authorities to honour the results of the voting, a promise which they unfortunately broke). --Florian Blaschke (talk) 15:52, 21 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Note: I have decided to revert the deletion of the explanation, as it is relevant and helpful to the reader. My rationale: As I have explained above, it is unreasonable to expect sources which fulfil Wikipedia's standards for reliable sources, journalistic or even academic, in this case. Unless the veracity of the explanation is contested, such sources are not even absolutely necessary, in my opinion, and the talk page provides abundant documentation supporting the explanation so that it cannot reasonably be doubted. The interest of the reader to make sense of the otherwise mysterious and singularly unexplained entry in the list is too substantial to brush off. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 16:06, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

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