Talk:Upper Mesopotamia

Geographic scope
Wouldn't this area also include areas that are in present-day southeastern Turkey? Sanli Urfa, for instance? john k 16:44, 12 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Technically, al-Jazira only includes a few places very close to the border, like Nisibis. Al-Jazira is mostly aluvial plain geographically and ancient Persian territory historically. This puts Sanliurfa too far north. --Gareth Hughes 21:41, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

However, Urfa (ar-Ruha, Edessa) was traditionally part of the Mesopotamia province of the Byzantines which was lumped together under al-Jazira by the Umayyads. So, there might be some merits to this.--Khodadad 08:59, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Title
Would this not be better entitled al-Jazira,_Mesopotamia? It's quite unusual to see the Arabic definite article given as a separate word, IMO.Palmiro 18:36, 26 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I think you're right: al-Jazira is a better way of writing &#1575;&#1604;&#1580;&#1586;&#1610;&#1585;&#1577;, but there will be a good few redirects to fix. --Gareth Hughes 19:31, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

"Riparian" plain

 * Al-Jazira is characterised as a riparian plain,...

I have a sneaking suspicion that "riparian plain" is not the right description here. The riparian zone is the band of land immediately adjactent to a channel (and some of the channel) &mdash; it's on the order of metres to 10s of metres (perhaps more for the Amazon). A riparian plain is better known as a floodplain. However, I think this plain is much much bigger. An alluvial plain, perhaps, if not simply a plain? Cheers, Daniel Collins 22:54, 7 April 2006 (UTC).
 * You are probably right - the Jazira is a very large area. Palmiro | Talk 13:45, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I couldn't find a reference to definitively describe the physiography of the area, but it is no riparian plain. Daniel Collins 15:03, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Map?
This article could use a map to make it really helpful. Stephen C. Carlson 01:31, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Proposed Move to Upper Mesopotamia
Geographically in English this area is called Upper Mesopotamia. Moving the article there would get rid of any confusion with former provinces called al-Jazira, and clarify that this is a geographical area and not a political one. The redirect would take care of links from Al-Jazira, Mesopotamia. --Bejnar (talk) 01:18, 1 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Also, "Jazeerah"/"Jazira" etc. most literally means "island" in Arabic, so it would be nice to have some explanation as to how the word came to be applied to an inland region... AnonMoos (talk) 21:44, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Syriac name
The Syriac name is only relevant at the point it was inserted if it relates to the Arabic name, for which I could not find a source. Does anyone have a source for that? The Arabic name means island in Arabic, which some have claimed is because it is the island between the Tigris and the Euphrates; however in actual usage the territory so named does not correspond to that island, (1) because it doesn't go downstream far enough, and (2) because it includes highlands to the east and west of the two rivers. The Syriac name might be interesting, hence I placed it in a note. It would be also be interesting to know what the Roman and Parthian names were for the area. Then a whole section could be devoted to the naming discussion. Now as Syriac and Arabic are both Central Semitic languages and Syriac was spoken in Upper Mesopotamia prior to the Arab invasion, it is reasonable to conjecture that the island name in Arabic was taken from a similar sounding island name in Syriac. However, without a citation, it remains original research. --Bejnar (talk) 21:59, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Well I didn't try to put it as an etymological evidence to the Arabic name, what I had in mind when I included Syriac in the first time was to show that the region is called that in Arabic and this in Syriac, I couldn't find anything links Syriac to the possible use of the arabic term for island, however I know that the Syriac "gazertho" means isolated/cut-off so that's very plausible reason for tha imho, however it's still all my own original research unfortunately.--  R a f y  talk 01:26, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The article Al-Hasakah Governorate mentions its Classical Syriac name ܓܙܪܬܐ Gozarto apparently without citation. Whoever wrote that part probably knows something about the etymology. I think in Modern Syriac it is called something like ܓܙܪܬܐ ܕܒܝܬ ܢܗܪ̈ܝܢ Gozarto d'Bethnahrin which means Island of Mesopotamia. Saintali (talk) 05:46, 13 June 2014 (UTC)