Talk:Upstate California/Archives/2013

This term does not exist
I have never heard a single soul utter this term before reading it here. I live in Northern California. Moreover I am from a family on the far north coast that has been in residence for generations. This term needs to go. Norcalal 01:37, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I stand corrected. There seems to be a marketing campaign to promote this new term. We shall see where it goes. Norcalal 02:13, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Heh. Yeah, back in 2001, it started as a marketing campaign.  Since I lived within that region for 10 years, I noticed it when it briefly made the news on Sept 10, 2001.  Then that was the last anyone heard as their campaign was drowned out by the news of the aftermath of Sept 11.  That appeared to be the end of it.  Fast forward years later to this past Spring and I noticed some people using the term.  It seemed to have been slowly moving along under encouragement from the counties and local chambers of commerce while I wasn't paying attention.  Surprisingly there were 7000 Google hits.  And there are more now.  Well, Google hits aren't a directly useful metric for Wikipedia.  But it does give a good hint whether there might be more to look for. Some localities scattered throughout the region seem to be embracing it on personal or business web sites and blogs.  I can't use those for sources in the article - but it tipped me toward the opinion this isn't just the marketing campaign any more.  It was when I saw the state agency CalBIS using the term prominently on its state map that I decided it had reached the threshold that it's time to write an article.  I also found recurring uses of the term on the University of California Office of the President (ucop.edu) site.  There were just enough reliable sources to start the article - but there's a lot more use out there to give enough confidence to say it's time to document this because it isn't going away.  Though the marketing seems to be proceeding too - I found online documentation that PG&E gave a $10K grant last year to the Upstate California Economic Development Council.  But I think it wouldn't get anywhere if it weren't for the plain folks adopting the term.  See the search for yourself if you haven't already. Ikluft (talk) 03:05, 9 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Should we move the article to far Northern California? The use of this term seems to be much more common. --Ixfd64 (talk) 23:12, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

New Template/Category in order
Discuss... Norcalal 03:28, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I've made navboxes and categories before. If there's consensus to make them, I'm willing to help.  I expected that the article itself would result in some discussion/Q&A so I wasn't planning to jump into anything else like that immediately. Ikluft (talk) 05:31, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The page now has enough content to provide guidance for creation of a category. The 20 counties are obvious subcats.  Obviously anything already in subcats would not also be added to Category:Upstate California. Ikluft (talk) 21:48, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Done - new category created and initially populated. Ikluft (talk) 22:18, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Will we need to spin off parks into a new sub article soon?
I can see where this is going. This area is an outdoor paradise with dozens and dozens of parks which may overwhelm the main article...lets just keep an eye on how extensive these lists get. Thanks Norcalal 06:17, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that seems to be the direction it's headed. For consistency we should look at List of protected areas within California. Ikluft (talk) 15:46, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

more sources have been added as requested - neologism tag removed
I added more sources showing defintions of regional divisions of the state including Upstate California at the 10-campus University of California system and TeamCalifornia (the association of economic development organizations in the state). I also added an external link to a column from late 2007 by a Siskiyou County supervisor about a meeting they hosted of the Upstate California EDC, among others. This is in addition to the existing reference that showed the CalBIS map with Upstate California among its regional divisions of the state. These were in response to the request that was made for more recent additional sources via a neologism tag, which has now been removed. Of course, more sources are always welcome. Ikluft (talk) 20:33, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Links about usage by local governments & economic development organizations
I began to expand the External links section to include links about participation and promotion of Upstate California by local governments & economic development organizations. Initially I had avoided this approach during the stage when we were trying to get enough references to get past the question of whether this article shows that it rises above a neologism. Documenting uses of a term are not considered acceptable for that purpose. But once we got enough references about the term, that was no longer an issue. But if you look at the edit history, we've had some complaints by anonymous editors about how widely used the term is (or isn't). It isn't a matter of whether "everyone" uses the term, but does point to a next step of showing the extent of official use by local governments which is apparent to any of us who have been researching this. For the purpose of answering that issue, documenting usage by local governments and local economic development organizations across the region does seem to be an answer. (Not blogs, spam or other unreliable links per WP:EL.) So I made a start on that. Any help would be welcome of course. Ikluft (talk) 09:53, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I moved these new links from the External links to a new Notes section, since they serve a role in verifiability. It seems like a better fit there. Ikluft (talk) 04:52, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

CFD for Category:Upstate California
Since it should be of interest here and no other notice has been posted yet, there is a CFD/Renaming proposal to rename or merge Category:Upstate California into Category:Northern California. Comparing the rationale with questions which have already been answered here, I encourage editors to read the Upstate California article and its references rather than just go on the opinions in the proposed rationale. During the course of the discussion, I created Category:Northern California and categorized articles into it based on the 48 counties enumerated in the Northern California article - 11 counties are subcategorized under Category:Counties in the San Francisco Bay Area and 20 under Category:Upstate California. That entirely deflates the CFD's issue. But it needs other editors' commentary to confirm consensus to keep it, and prevent a forced deletion/merge of the category. Ikluft (talk) 16:02, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Upstate California should include Sacramento
Upstate California definetly includes Sacramento, Yolo, Alpine and Amador counties bringing the total number of counties in Upstate California to 24. How are you going to include all the suburbs of Sacramento like Roseville and other cities in the Sacramento Valley and the Sacramento Metro area but not include Sacramento its self. That just isnt practical. Sacramento is not in the Bay Area nor is it in the San Joaquin Valley. Therefore it has to be in Upstate California by default. Realley you can break California(Baja and Alta CA) up into 6 Regions. Upstate California is definetly one of the 6 regions and Sacramento is the capitol of the region. The other regions being the Bay Area(SF), the Southland(LA), the San Joaquin Valley(FRESNO), The Frontera(SD) and Baja(La Paz). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.14.55.91 (talk) 12:00, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Often a description of any region anywhere in the world, large or small, runs into varying points of view. (Believe it or not, the definitions of Silicon Valley and Northern California, for example, have wide variations depending whom you ask.)  On Wikipedia, we need to have reliable sources.  If you can cite a source for that point of view, it can then be added to the article as an additional definition.  Since the term Upstate California was introduced at the beginning of the last decade, it was originally intended to exclude the counties of the Bay Area and Sacramento metro areas, in order to differentiate the northern counties from them.  "Northern California" was a label where they didn't get noticed.  And "NorthState" didn't catch on outside the region.  This article wasn't created on Wikipedia until other sources, including but not limited to the state government, were documented using and defining their use of the term.  As for other regions of California, see Category:Regions of California. Ikluft (talk) 12:19, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Definition
Um, the parts of El Dorado and Placer County closest to Sacramento (ex: Roseville) have always been considered part of the Sacramento metro area. If the rest of the Sacramento metro area isn't included, these areas also shouldn't be included.76.246.36.153 (talk) 09:02, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Drastically reduce article to 2001 marketing campaign
The term "Upstate California" has no resonance beyond a short-lived marketing campaign that lasted for a few months in 2001. This article has grown far too large based on far too little evidence. I am greatly reducing this article to match the sources. The most important point is that Upstate California cannot be considered an actual geopolitical region—none of the sources support this idea. Therefore it cannot host a geobox template as the infobox. Binksternet (talk) 18:01, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Conspiracy, Coincidence, or just the Will of God?
Rather fascinating to read that the two largest attacks on American soil over the past 100 years both turned what would like have been minor footnotes in American history into micro footnotes, unknown to all but a few. Hmmmm, does anyone have any information that we can add to the article on whether these events which aborted these attempts to establish a distinct Northern Califiornian identification were the result of an anti-northern Californian conspiracy? Or does anyone know of any statistical analysis that we can add to the article determining the likelihood that his is merely a coincidence? Have any theologians, like Billy Graham or Jerry Falwell, perhaps, indicated that these events stealing the northern Californian thunder are actually the will of God? Surely there is room to expand the article with these ideas. HuskyHuskie (talk) 19:48, 3 August 2013 (UTC)