Talk:Upton Sinclair/Archive 1

The Jungle
My source for the publish date is http://museum.nist.gov/object.asp?ObjID=45

The publish date seems a bit hard to pin down; it was serialized before it became a volume. However, given the usual slowness of Congressional action, I doubt the Meat Packing Act would have been passed the same year. -- Hephaestos 05:20, 5 October 2002 (UTC)

Photo caption
The caption reads "Author Upton Sinclair." At first glance that all seems like his full name. I'm going to drop the word 'author.' -- 70.134.51.1019:41 26 June 2006 70.134.51.10 (UTC)

I am changing the caption. The current one says "I never met a Socialist, or a Socialist cause, that I didn't like." This seems like it was chosen by someone who is either for or against socialism, and simply wanted to associate Sinclair with it for the editor's own agenda. Besides, it is not even a quote he is known for. I think the quote which best sums up Sinclair's career is "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." This is also a more artful quote than the current one, which sounds like an uninspired spin from Will Rogers. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.42.81.33 (talk) 09:20, 6 December 2006 (UTC).

Recent vandalism to page
Some small but incredibly wrong changes have been made including death in 200, change in book count and his occupations including blacksmith. I do not know how to fix this vandalism but someone needs to do this. 68.58.93.181 00:23, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Lanny Budd series
A number of the books in the Lanny Budd series have stub articles which do little more than create a blue link. Does anyone, besides myself, believe that they should become redirects? I'll watch for awhile! Thanks. --Stormbay 23:34, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Pictures
That image is not Upton Sinclair. Looks like someone born a couple of centuries earlier. -- 213.246.162.12 13:14, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Today I added two photographs to the article, one that I just recently took. The photo of Sinclair is from Wikimedia Commons, which says that it is in the public domain. I've never read anything by Sinclair, so someone who is familiar with him should check the article carefully.  Happy editing! -  Astrochemist 21:51, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Upton Sinclair in popular culture
In the alternative history of Harry Turtledove's Americian Empire trilogy Upton Sinclair becomes the first socialist president of the United States, beating the democratic candidate Theodore Roosewelt in the 1920 presidential-campaign. This happens in the first book: Blood And Iron. -- 80.196.72.6 08:44, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Upton Sinclair features as the main character in the Chris Bachelder novel, US! -- 81.77.41.157 08:33, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I dunno How to Give citation, but Compared to the ideas of real America, Sinclair's policies Arent that radical, he only calls for A "square Deal" for workers, and forces companies to allow unions. -- 71.61.163.146 11:06, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Did Upton Sinclair have any children?
I was Wondering did Upton Sinclair have any children because he might be my anaster?! -- 70.178.13.117 00:51, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Einstein and Upton
I recall vaguely that Einstein and Upton used to jam together with Upton on the piano, and Albert playing the violin. Would that be notable enough to mention in the article. How about the arrest in Chicago for reading selected portions of the declaration of independence as "socialist talk"? -- Cimon Avaro; on a pogostick. (talk) 10:19, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
 * If we can't source it, we can't use it. Do you have cites? -- Orange Mike  |  Talk  14:08, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Miscellaneous
Nothing to do with finances, but on the page devoted to Upton if you scroll down you see a discussion of Sinclair Lewis' "It Can't Happen Here". It needs to be moved to the Sinclair Lewis page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.190.71.186 (talk) 16:13, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

There is an Italian version of this article for Upton Sinclair, but it's not included with the list of languages found to the left. And then, on the page where the article is written in Italian there are no cross references to other languages at all. How does one correct this? jhendin May 10th, 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jhendin (talk • contribs) 17:47, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

EPIC and Social Security
EPIC was a major factor in the New Deal's adoption of Social Security. This should be included in the article. 76.216.65.127 (talk) 14:53, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Popular Novels
Although the blurb about Manassas sticks with the idea of Popular Novels, the paragraph about Helicon seems horribly out of place in a section about novels. Could someone move it to the background section, yet keep it intact? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.125.182.17 (talk) 20:57, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Levitation incident
The current text after the reference to Mental Radio, indicates that Sinclair took the levitation to be something other than a trick, which is dubious from what I recall of his writings, he was generally a skeptic of same. 72.228.177.92 (talk) 23:01, 25 July 2010 (UTC)


 * You are correct. He mentions this levitation incident but makes it clear that he is skeptical of it. I've removed it. I also changed the section heading to something more basic. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 23:41, 25 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank You (i indented your response). 72.228.177.92 (talk) 09:57, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Jimmie Higgins
Sinclair's fictional character of 1919, a disciplined and somewhat naive grass-roots activist, for a while became a proverbial synonym for the typical (now defunct) type of the "true believer" among the rank and file of leftist movements. Robert Schediwy--91.129.8.56 (talk) 18:01, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

P.S.: See Aileen S. Kraditor: "Jimmy Higgins": The Mental World of the American Rank-And-File Communist, 1930-1958 (Contributions in Political Science) Greenwood Press 1988.("This study fills a conspicuous gap in the secondary literature on the Communist Party by examining the mental world of the wholly committed rank-and-file Party member").


 * Some googling suggests that the term "Jimmie Higgins" was commonly used for such an activist and then Sinclair appropriated the name for his novel. I suppose if someone ever decides to write up an entry for Jimmie Higgins we'll learn more. Sinclair's novel dates from 1919, but you'll find an article called Jimmie Higgins by Ben Hanford in the anthology Sinclair edited The cry for justice: an anthology of the literature of social protest, pp. 809 ff., which dates from 1915. In 1918, before publishing his novel, Sinclair wrote an announcement that he wanted to "take the character known to the movement as "'Jimmie Higgins'" etc. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 18:52, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Belated thanks.--Robert Schediwy (talk) 14:52, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

introduction
Although he published over 90 books throughout his 65-year literary career, and his novel Dragon's Teeth won the 1943 Pulitzer Prize for Fiction, Upton Sinclair is best known for his controversial and often misunderstood novel The Jungle. Sinclair's primary interest was in social change, and his concern for social and moral improvement dominated his prolific writings: Sinclair's novels, plays, pamphlets, and articles reflected social themes.

The honors and output would seemingly have assured Sinclair a favorable place in American literary history; however, this is not the case. Although he was extremely popular during his day, critics focused on his political ideology and did not embrace his work as receptively as the general reading public did. Historically, his peers, such as Theodore Dreiser, Frank Norris, and fellow socialist Jack London, tended to be the critical favorites, whereas Sinclair's works were often routinely dismissed. Today, The Jungle is the only one of his works that is widely read. The pendulum of perception continually shifts, however, and Sinclair's work is slowly creeping back into favor with contemporary critics. Contemporary scholars look beyond his political agenda when analyzing his literary efforts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.212.144.178 (talk) 03:10, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

It starts badly: "was an American author and one-time candidate for Governor". Governor of what?Malick78 (talk) 00:38, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Place of Death
Someone changed his place of death to Alpine, NJ, though several sources including a New York Times article said Bound Brook. Technically, the nursing home where he died was outside of Bound Brook in Bridgewater. 98.221.128.109 (talk) 12:02, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Notification of discussion on CfD notifications
Please participate: Wikipedia_talk:Categories_for_discussion. Thanks! &mdash; alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 00:14, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

The Jungle's Classification
It would appear as if The Jungle is under the fiction category in his list of works? 72.241.76.76 (talk) 16:44, 23 March 2014 (UTC)


 * The Jungle is described as a novel in the entry. However, The Goslings A Study Of The American Schools is also listed under fiction, although a review of this by H.L. Mencken describes it as a thoroughly researched book of statistics & as a sequel to Sinclair's The Goose-step: A Study of American Education, a title which the entry places in the non-fiction category. The Goslings should probably be moved, with administrator approval, to the non-fiction category. BubbleDine (talk) 21:38, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Racism
blatant pov, sinclair was no racist. jungle's narration is simply meant to convey the mindset of typical american wage worker. union organizers have complained about racism as the most formidable barrier to uniting workers since the police stopped killing them. sinclair was a crazy californian socialist into justice, liberties, and telepethy. not some primitive "new england" intellect. was huckle-nigger-berry twain a racist also!?? section goes. someone has an agenda. every article is a battlefield in this person's silly war. -- 67.180.222.100 10:20, 8 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Agree. Too much passive voice, speculation and argumentation; this is an encyclopedia, not a platform for posthumously levelling possibly libelous accusations at dead authors. User:Jaganath 23:48, 03 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Disagree. Clearly we cannot know what was in Sinclair’s heart when he wrote Chapter 26 of The Jungle. Hence it is wrong to say that it proves he was a racist. It is, however, equally wrong dismiss the text (which is undeniably racist in and of itself) as merely the reflection the working class whites of the era. If you read Chapter 26 I think you will agree that it is really vile stuff and that there is nothing comparable to it in Huckleberry Finn. Furthermore, the racist language is spoken by the narrator who throughout the rest of the book is expressing the author’s own beliefs. Why in this one instance would we decide the narrator is not speaking for the author?


 * Wouldn’t it be reasonable to say the following: "Chapter 26 of The Jungle contains racist language so extreme that it cannot be quoted in Wikipedia, and this language is spoken by the narrator who throughout the rest of the book seems to be expressing the sentiment of Sinclair." -- Tweston 16:34, 5 September 2006 (UTC)


 * As it stands, the part of the article dealing with racism looks like a pissing match between those who wish to paint Sinclair as a racist on the one hand and his apologists on the other. It looks horrible. It's far, far too long. I plan to change it to something far more simple, as befits its significance, along the lines of, "[XXXX his critics] (with specific references) have criticized Sinclair for racist language in his books. [XXXX his defenders] (with specific references) reply that the language was a product of the times and/or a literary device." If anyone would like to discuss this before I make the change, please comment here. Jessesamuel 15:21, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Chapter 26 of The Jungle can be found here…

http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/Literature/Sinclair/TheJungle/26.html

There are no doubt many “vile” remarks directed at various ethnic groups in The Jungle. They are not only directed against “stupid negroes”, but also Slovakians, Greeks, Sicilians, and Romanians, who are each said to be “the lowest foreigners.” However, one thing is curious: outside of Chapter 26 there is no instance of derogative ethnic commentary. Instead, Sinclair didn’t fly the flag of ethnic prejudice until the second section of this chapter, which is where all the unfortunate remarks are to be found. An ongoing theme throughout the novel is the manner in which ethnic majorities are systematically replaced at the stockyards by successive waves of lower-status groups. Early in the novel (Chapter 6), it is said the stockyards were originally manned by Germans who were “skilled cattle butchers that the packers had brought from abroad to start the business”. However, according to the narration it wasn’t long before they were replaced by the Irish, who were replaced by Bohemians, who were replaced by Poles, who were replaced by Lithuanians, who were replaced by Slovaks. “Who there was poorer and more miserable than the Slovaks, Grandmother Majauszkiene had no idea, but the packers would find them, never fear.”

Chapter 26 is a special chapter in The Jungle; it is the height of despair. The union has been broken and the factory is overrun with scabs. Jurgin, the working class Lithuanian protagonist, observes helplessly. What ethnic groups are the scabs composed of? You guessed it: “the lowest foreigners”, but also the “stupid negroes” and “an assortment of the criminals and thugs of the city.” The complete scenario is rendered in the second section of the chapter. The ending paragraph of this section begins with “Such were the stockyards during the strike; while the unions watched in sullen despair.” The closing sentence of the same paragraph begins with, “He was drinking, and developing a villainous temper, and he stormed and cursed and raged at his men.”

From here we can only draw two conclusions:

A: Sinclair is a realist author sketching the protagonist’s point of view and sense of socio-ethnic heirarchy.

B: Sinclair, who was not even familiar with Lithuanian culture until writing the book, is illustrating his own prejudice toward anyone ‘lower than a Lithuanian.’

Duh, clearly it is the latter!

Any statements to The Jungle’s supposed racism are permanently removed from the article. However, this does not mean Sinclair is not racist scum. It simply means editors must look elsewhere for evidence of Sinclair’s ignorance. -- 67.42.81.33 08:41, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

The earlier points given on the potential for Sinclair's racism make strong points. In Chapter 26, Upton Sinclair is quoted by calling blacks "stupid black Negroes," specifically ones who migrated from the South to fill various meat-packing jobs during a massive strike by the Union workers. Sinclair also mentions multiple times the phrase "green Negroes," who were, as Sinclair put it, "Negroes from the cotton districts of the far South." It is not clearly specified what Sinclair is pointing to when he coins this phrase, but it can be assumed that it is meant to represent blacks who had previously worked in the cotton fields and on the plantations (green most likely derives from working with plants, akin to "green thumb").

Throughout a majority of the novel, Sinclair portrays other ethnicities as inferior and often hauls unique and bitter insults at his target groups. In Chapter 6, as a previous entry states, essentially a new nationality immigrates to Packingtown one after another; the original being the Germans, followed by the Irish, then the Bohemians, the Poles, the Lithuanians, and then the Slovaks. Sinclair is obviously portraying Jurgis as an ignorant man, not only through Jurgis's opinions on race/ethnicity, but also Jurgis's ignorance surrounding wages, labor, etc.

The strongest hint at Sinclair's racism is on Chapter 26, page 292 (Bantam Classic Edition), when he gives a bitter representation of the southern blacks and their lineage, "The ancestors of these black people had been savages in Africa, and since then they had been chattel slaves, or had been hold by a community ruled by the traditions of slavery. Now for the first time they were free... their present masters would never see them again; and so whisky and women were brought in by the carload and sold to them, and hell was let loose in the yards." He goes on to portray the violence originating from the black immigration to Chicago, and there is unquestionably some obvious racism. The only thing that can be clearly derived from this text is that Sinclair holds similar racist worldviews to most of the whites of his generation, but there is no indication that he is a segregationist or Confederate.

What can we reasonably conclude from Chapter 26 regarding Sinclair as a racist? Nothing. He was a member of a more radical wing of leftist ideology (socialism, but remember that this was well before the Cold War changed everyone's opinions on socialism), and he was also a member of both the Socialist and Democratic Parties, the latter of which had been the dominant segregationist and racist party of the South, at the time. Few parallels can be derived from this, and his place of birth and growth cannot indicate whether he is racist or not (Sinclair was born in Baltimore, MY, and grew up in New York, NY). So the conclusion is that there is little indication that he is, and definitely no indication that he isn't. If anything, he likely holds similar nativist and ethnocentric views to people of his generation and present-day far-right neonationalists. -- WilliamAstronomo (talk) 05:29, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

Works
I believe he published much more than what is shown here, does anyone know of a complete list that could be incorporated? -- Dwxyzq 15:41, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Sinclair was an extremely prolific author, who continued to write until the end of the 1950s ; however, most of his work is not considered to be of serious literary merit, much of it being political propaganda for various causes that interested him. "The Jungle" and "Oil" are considered to be his greatest works and are still read widely as classics of American literature ; his other work, except for a few short stories, seems to have been forgotten by both critics and the public. -- 71.116.244.19 01:04, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I was surprised that the Wikipedia list does not include:

100% A Story of a Patriot -- 172.158.127.12 13:12, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't know the title The Spy --- it might be the same book. It is on Project Gutenberg.

Project Gutenberg Presents 100%: The Story of a Patriot by Upton Sinclair Project Gutenberg Release #5776 (May 2004) -- 172.158.127.12 13:12, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Don't forget about "Dragon's Teeth," which won a Pulitzer Prize!WilliamAstronomo (talk) 05:41, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

Finances
Why is there nothing about Sinclair's financial life? Did he live in poverty? Was he born to comfort (if not wealth)? Did he make a bundle off his "socialist" writings? Considering that "The Jungle" is widely held by serious scholars to be "accurate" but grossly exaggerated, the question becomes significant IMHO. -- 67.174.53.196 17:53, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Hello! There is some indication of his early financial life, as the Wikipedia page on "The Jungle " details his early life and how he lived around poverty as a child in New York City. He likely was not impoverished as an adult, first because he started college at age 13, and second because he published "The Jungle." -- WilliamAstronomo (talk) 07:06, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

Possible contradiction: English or Scottish ancestry, or both?
In the 'Early life and education' section, it says: Both of Upton Sinclair's parents were of English ancestry, Paternal Grandparents were Scottish, and all of his ancestors emigrated to America from Great Britain during the late 1600s and early 1700s. There's almost certainly a contradiction: how could both his parents be of English ancestry if his paternal grandparents (and therefore his father) were Scottish? Can someone verify the source to clarify this? 80.6.233.101 (talk) 21:47, 12 January 2021 (UTC)