Talk:Uri Avnery

Untitled
Plagiarization is not good, especially from a POV website. The original site is http://www.avnery-news.co.il/english/index.html. Danny 01:29 Mar 15, 2003 (UTC)

I'm confused. Which is the POV website? The one you link to? If that's what you're claiming it's ridiculous. That site which you call POV is the personal website of the person featured in this article. It expresses his views. Do you want his views in the article or not??

And if you're saying something diff. & I misunderstood you I apologize...but it is a little hard to follow what your claim is.--Richard 07:44, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Irgun or Lehi?
Look, guys, Avnery joined the Irgun when he was 15, as it is very easy to read in his biography which is linked from this very article, there's really no need for serious research to realize this. Though I do not consider myself an expert on his life, to my best knowledge he was never a member of Lehi. One would expect him to at least mention it in the biography on his website, or in his resume in the Knesset website, or anywhere else for that matter. The only "evidence" I've seen for his alleged membership in Lehi was in the link provided by User:Guy Montag. This is an interview with Avnery by Israeli journalist Ari Shavit about Arafat following his death, and in the background notes Shavit says that Avnery was a Lehi member when he was young. This is undoubtedly a mistake (which seems common, given User:Danny's and User:Guy Montag's insistance), and is not written by Avnery or a quote of Avnery at any rate. So stop reverting to Lehi unless you can come up with a source for this groundless claim.--Doron 13:15, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Photo...that photo of Avnery has to be a good 30 or 40 yrs. old. This is a great historical photo. But first, you should have a caption dating the photo. Second, you should try to use a more recent photo. Since I didn't create this article I don't want to muck around in it too much. I do have a relatively recent image of him taken off his site which you may use (don't direct link to it pls if someone does use it).--Richard 07:35, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

The photo i uploaded is from the Knesset HP and it's used in the Hebrew article too, but I wasn't not sure about the copyright status, so it got deleted automatically yesterday. I couldn't find any photos on the site you pointed out. Care to upload the one you mean yourself? Or point out the exact file you're referring to? also we would have to know the copyright status. thanks Lodp 20:58, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

The "recent image" I linked to in my comment above points to my own blog post which features an image of him from his own website. Not sure why you're not seeing it. Here's the file for the jpg on my site. I'm certain you can go to Avnery's site & ask for & receive permission to use the photo. richards1052

Adding to Category:Atheists
I noticed on the mediawatch site that Uri Avnery mentions in an article, http://usa.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/35741 that he refers to himself as a Jewish Atheist

"As a Jewish atheist, I do not intend to enter the fray of this debate. It is much beyond my humble abilities to..."

I'll tag his page as atheist as he is notable and he is also very much for the separation of religion from state matters. (I am one too so thought so best to at least mention this for the record). Ttiotsw 07:35, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Proponent of binationalism?
Some articles I read suggested he is a proponent of a binational solution. Is this truly the case? If one can determine that he is for sure, one could apply this new category Category:Binational solution proponents to the article. For now, I do not want to apply it on secondary sources (another Wikipedia article). This article should really be expanded to describe his views in more detail considering how widely cited Uri is in some leftist circles. --Deodar 13:58, 8 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi Deodar, UA definitely qualifies as an advocate of bi-nationalism. More to the point though, he is quite fond of pointing out that he advocated this position long before it became a consensus view. Indeed, he was one of the first public figures to express this view and has written several times describing his efforts to convince the Israeli leadership to enact this vision immediately after the 1967 war. In conclusion - it would be very appropriate to include UA in this category. Regards --Philopedia 00:44, 12 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I think Philopedia is mistaken here. Avnery has long been a proponebnt of a two-state solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict. This is in fact the reverse of a binational position, which holds that both national communities can live in one state. Avnery's position is that each community needs its "own" state. If necessary, I will provide citations to back my interpretation of Avnery's views; I would be very interested to read any citations Philopedia can provide to back his interpretation. RolandR 00:58, 12 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Roland is right. Avnery has supported a two-state solution, not a binational or "single state" solution. But if he did support a bi-national state, he would hardly be "one of the first public figures to express this view" — the idea goes back at least to the 1920s, when Avnery was born. — Malik Shabazz (Talk | contribs) 01:16, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Does Uri Avnery self-identify as a post-Zionist?
In the Post-Zionism article someone has listed Uri Avnery as a post-Zionist. There was no source listed. There is now a category for post zionists here Category:Post-Zionists. If someone finds a source for this, can you please add the category and describe him as such in the body of the article? Thanks. --Deodar 14:43, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

http://www.hagalil.com/archiv/2013/09/09/avnery-3/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.79.171.37 (talk) 16:43, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Self hating Jew?
Do not delete this message. Respond to it if you have a response.

I wanted to create a category of "self-hating" Jews, namely Jews who have left-wing and anti-Zionists tendencies who have been accused by other Jews in the mainstream media of self-hate. I wanted to include him in the list and was fiercely accused of vandalism. Why?

Again, please do not delete this message. If there is a reason I am wrong, which I well might be, please tell me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by User:Renamed user 3221277379 (talk • contribs)


 * You are most definitely wrong. The category in question is a category based on demonizing a whole group of people, and attaching to those people a term used by their political enemies.  It's also an unprovable and undisprovable accusation to label a person as a "self-hating Jew".  How does a person prove that she or he DOESN'T feel self-hatred or hatred towards his community.  It's totally inappropriate(to say nothing of being a clear violation of the NPOV policy of Wikipedia, to create an entire Wiki category based on attacking or discrediting a group of people.  It's simply not what Wikipedia is supposed to be about.

Ken Burch10:15, 26 July 2009.


 * WP:CAT item 8 states: "Categories appear without annotations, so be careful of NPOV when creating or filling categories. Unless it is self-evident and uncontroversial that something belongs in a category, it should not be put into a category."
 * Basically categories are not designed for slandering or defaming people. Even if they are not as Zionist as some would like. ابو علي (Abu Ali) 19:56, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I am not "Zionist" myself. I personally am disgraced by the ADL's, Alan Dershowitz's, AJC's etc. smearing of Mearsheimer and Walt as anti-Semites and of Norman Finkelstein and Israel Shahak as self-hating Jews. I just wanted to create a category of Jewish people ACCUSED of self-hate. Not everyone in the category white supremacist, racist or anti-Semite is really white-supremaicst, racist or anti-Semitic but may be just blacklisted by liberals. Wikipedia still lists them in the category.


 * This would be a very dangerous category to create. The term itself is too controversial for anything to fit in it in a self-evident and uncontroversial way. BobFromBrockley 09:28, 31 May 2007 (UTC)


 * This is a bit silly, no? No one would self-categorise themselves as a SHJ, (except, perhaps, ironically). Rather it is epithet used used in a kind of ad-hominem attack. Or, more generously, perhaps it is an expression of bafflement by one Jew who does not comprehend another Jew's point of view.
 * By the way, UA has written articles about the SHJ difamation. You can find them at his web site. Read them and be enlightened.
 * --Philopedia 00:53, 12 October 2007 (UTC)


 * That is completely silly. If you truly "are not 'Zionist'" and don't like the use of the term as a smear, why don't you create a NPOV category like "leftist Jews" or "non-Zionist Jews"? That would actually be extremely interesting. Vcrs (talk) 05:33, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Death Threats
User:TRFA persists in renaming the section in the article on Death Threats against Avnery as "Trivia". This is extremely offensive and definitely not NPOV. In addition, s/he has several times removed a sourced report of the 1975 assassination attempot against Avnery, falsely claiming that this is not sourced. S/he has made several other POV edits, including deliberately misspelling Avnery's name. If this POV vanddalism persists, I shall ask for the article to be protected. RolandR 19:39, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

inheritance denial
i'm not sure on how reliable this source is, however, they do give out enough details that this can be checked.

allegedly, avneri's mother denied him of all inheritance due to his lack of concern for her, and that instead of taking care of her he went to visit "Arafat the murderer" (quote on his mother).

source: http://rotter.net/forum/gil/5405.shtml

-- Jaakobou 07:38, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Aliya
The idea of aliyah does not seem to me to include a 10 year old boy who is dragged to 'what is now Israel' by his parents. In Judaism a child does not become responsible for himself until age 13. I would think the term is falsely used and and considering that he does not even consider himself Jewish, the idea that he "made aliyah" to Israel at age 10 strikes me as ridiculous. I would appreciate your comments Juanita (talk) 01:39, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * the whole sentence should be rephrased because 1) a term of art like aliyah should not be used unless it was previously explained, and 2) so many other details are lakcing -- e.g., did he come by himself or with his family? why did he leave Germany? what influenced him or his family? did he have relatives in Palestine? did he already have a Zionist inclination at age 10 or was he oblivious to what was going on?
 * Before rewriting this paragraph, I would like to offer to the original author to clarify all those things and rephrase. SelfEvidentTruths (talk) 19:19, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree that it is silly to talk of a 10-year-old "making aliyah." That implies a personal decision that is highly religious and political. Also, it is not a term that is widely known outside the Jewish community, so it makes a very confusing opening statement - so I am adding a parenthetical definition. Someone may well remove it but I would argue that that would be a politically motivated act, i.e. a demand that everyone familiarize themselves with the concept, and that just isn't reasonable for a worldwide encyclopedic source. Last, it is really not a reasonable opening sentence fora biography - I agree with SelfEvidentTruths - how did he get there? Did his family move? Most importantly why? It is at the very least interesting and likely highly relevant to his biography. Wish I knew enough to write a better intro.


 * Dajudem/Juanita errs in saying that Avnery does not consider himself Jewish. He absolutely considers himself Jewish and proudly so. He is neither Zionist nor theist, two categories that are sometimes asserted to be essential to Jewishness, but considering that many famous atheist Jews are happily claimed as members by the Jewish community, and no one disputes the Jewishness of non-Zionists and anti-Zionists (just calls them "self-hating") I don't think anyone has any logical reason to claim Avnery is not Jewish. In any case, Dajudem/Juanita uses this idea to argue against saying that Avnery "made aliyah," which definitely doesn't make sense since it's clear that he was strongly Zionist (at least) at a very young age. Vcrs (talk) 05:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

two changes

 * Baruch Marzel didn't threaten to kill Avnery, so it's wrong to call his statement a "death threat." In 1975 someone actually tried to kill him, which is also not a death threat.  I don't know why you'd group together these two things that happened thirty years apart under a heading that applies to neither of them, breaking up the natural chronological organization that a biographical article should have.
 * Similarly I don't know why three things that happened in the 2000s should have their own section at the end of the article rather than just coming at the end of the biography section, or why they should be in bullet points rather than normal prose.71.182.211.165 (talk) 02:09, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Read the sources. Nishidani (talk) 19:59, 7 May 2018 (UTC)