Talk:Usiaslau of Polatsk

Why was this reverted? I converted the spelling to the Russian form to mirror the names of the other Kievan princes. I added data about his genealogy, and a link to an epic poem written about Vseslav. Missi 12:15, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Usiaslau is the correct Belarusian spelling of the king's name. As he was from Belarusian lands (Polatsk), this name is more correct--Czalex 19:06, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Not at all. He didn't speak Belarusian but Old East Slavic, so we should use the name in the language he spoke: Vseslav. I don't think he would pronounce that horrible spelling you propose. And he wasn;t king, by the way. Also, spelling revert doesn't need justify deleting other newly-added information. User:Rydel is a typical vandal. --Ghirlandajo 20:58, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Usias&#322;a&#365; was a king of Belarus, so the Belarusian name shall be kept in the article (of course with mentioning of the Old Ruthenian name too, moreover as he was a duke of Kyiv for some time). And please keep your Russian nationalism for the Russian Wikipedia.--Czalex 17:12, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Vseslav was not a king, and he was not even a ruler of Belarus, for that matter (such entity simply didn't exist at that time). Your ignorance is so blatant, and yet you dare to comment on items you don't understand. Please keep your Polish nationalism for the Polish Wiki (or the Russian one, if you really live in Moscow, as you say). --Ghirlandajo 06:13, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * He was ruler of most part of the territory that is now called Belarus and do not step away from the discussion if you have nothing to say--Czalex 17:00, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * He was a prince of the Kievan Rus, and as such I converted his name to match those of his fellow princes. Belarusian wikipedia can have his name as Usiaslau, but this is English wikipedia, and all the English sources I've seen give his name as Vseslav. Oh, btw, I added the genealogical information to show his descent from Rogneda of Polotsk, to show how Vseslav inherited his princedom. Missi 23:02, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Dear Missi, this is exactly my point. We totally agree on this one. This is English Wikipedia, so we should use the names that are most appropriate in English. Please open Google and try to search for Vseslav and see the result page. You'll get a bunch of Russian Vseslavs, totally unrelated to this great man. In fact, out of the first ten results (which are the most important by far!), you will get only 1 (one) related to him. Now try to search Google for Usiaslau. You will see that the name is used in English and all of the search results relate to this man. Thus it is the most appropriate title for this encyclopedia page. --rydel 19:49, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Once again, I suggest you should try google for Vseslav yourself. There are no "Russian Vseslavs" at all. The only person of distinction who ever bore this name is the subject of present article. It is to him, in one way or another, that the Russian sites allude. So please don't mislead yourself and others. --Ghirlandajo 06:13, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Dear Ghirlandajo, I believe it is you who is misleading people, or simply lying. Here are the first five Google results for Vseslav:
 * vseslav.com - some Russian firm in Frankfurt-am-Main
 * our duke
 * vseslav.org - bakery in Yekaterinburg, Siberia, Russia
 * Russian Tmutarakan (ha-ha!)
 * vseslav.com.ua - Ukrainian construction company that designs swimming pools
 * www.vseslav.ru - Russian construction company that designs swimming pools
 * and only after that a couple pages about this man.


 * Dear Ghirlandajo, and here, please compare, are the first five Google results for Usiaslau:
 * Cultural and Educational Initiative "USIASLAU CARADZIEJ" from Polatsk
 * History of Polatsk and Usiaslau
 * Polotsk history and Usiaslau
 * Belarus history and Usiaslau
 * Religious history of Belarus and Usiaslau
 * etc., etc., etc. - all results relate only to this Usiaslau.


 * Rydel, I did google Vseslav. "Vseslav Bryachislavich" has three pages of responses, all in English. Just plain "Vseslav" has more than 20 pages, and many of those responses refer to the Vseslav who is the subject of this article. I don't know what your deal is -- Belarusian nationalism or whatever -- but in English he is Vseslav. You can call him anything you please on Belarusian wikipedia, but have some respect for us. English wikipedia uses the form of the name most recognizable to English speakers -- Philip Augustus instead of Philippe Auguste, Ferdinand the Saint instead of Fernando El Santo. As it is, "Usiaslau" looks out-of-place next to the Mstislavs, Iziaslavs, and Yaropolks, who were also princes of the Kievan Rus. Missi 14:38, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Missi, you accuse me of nationalism just because I offer the correct spelling that really belongs to that person. --rydel 22:05, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * How's this then: Janet L. B. Martin, in her 1995 work, "Medieval Russia, 980-1584" (Cambridge Medieval Textbooks) uses the spelling "Vseslav of Polotsk". This is an English work, in the English language, and that is the English version of his name. Missi 06:28, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Here's another example of the Vseslav name. Martin Dimnik's 2003 study of the Dynasty of Chernigov also calls him "Vseslav of Polotsk". Missi 21:14, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

A request to Rydel: Please don't change the Old East Slavic spelling of names (correctly transcribed to English as `Vseslav' and `Polotsk') by Modern Belarusian, Russian, Ukrainian, Chinese or any other spellings. Please see the Tale of Igor's Campaign if you need the correct Old East Slavic spellings - they are Всеславъ and Полотскъ, but not Usiaslau and Polatsk. You can also read the English translations of The Tale: http://www.stavacademy.co.uk/mimir/igorraid.htm or http://ruslib.com/NABOKOW/slovo.txt or http://faculty.washington.edu/dwaugh/rus/texts/igortxt2.htm. In these three different translations, the correct spelling `Vseslav' is used (can you find there your `Usiaslau'?). Do you have any arguments but your strange wish to immediately make English speakers to speak in Belarusian? And please don't say about russification (I'm from the Ukraine, BTW) or you have to explain how could these bloody Russian imperialists make their bloody russification on the ancient Old East Slavic texts written in XI century? And also explain me please why do you write in Belarusian `Віктар Юшчанка' whereas the correct spelling=pronunciation is `Віктор Ющенко' -- he is the Ukrainian `ruler', not the Belarusian one, so your logic has to work in the same way, don't it? I wonder what would you say if I would (using your strange logic) rename this article (on Yuschenko) in the Belarusian wiki? :) Ok, it was only a joke, I wouldn't like to make a religious war around this simple point. If you don't agree with my arguments, we can resolve this dispute in more constructive way then a stupid reverting of versions. V1adis1av 14:36, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

please stop moving articles around! Discuss!
A request to all! Please stop moving articles around arguing in edit summaries! Discuss the arguments from both sides first! For now, leave an article in its original location "Vseslav" and conduct all discussions at Talk:Vseslav of Polotsk. Whoever moved article first without discussion and a vote, broke the WP consensus spirit. Whoever is moving it back and forth by cut'n'paste or revert destroys the history of the page. Please everyone, STOP! If one side doesn't want to discuss and wants to instist on moving as article, use a WP:RP listing for that! --Irpen 19:43, 22 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I am ready to discussion, and I hope we will reach a consensus based on rational arguments. V1adis1av 20:58, 22 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Great! Let's use the other talk page, where the article is right now, for any discussions. I will keep an eye for the article to remain at Vladislav, at least for now, until some consensus emerges. --Irpen 21:01, 22 December 2005 (UTC)


 * OK V1adis1av 21:09, 22 December 2005 (UTC)