Talk:Usman dan Fodio

Nana Asmau
Maybe Nana Asmau deserves an article of her own?

POV Watch
Isn't the impression that the "Fulani War" was a pure Fulani-Hausa ethnic conflict a POV?--iFaqeer 22:27, Sep 15, 2004 (UTC)

Shaihu Manu!


Thanks to SimonP for the edit making the clarification I was seeking. I think he deserves an award. This is a slightly political point of view, but in this day and age, when the "fundamentalist" right-wing of Islam co-opts people like him, it is very important to point out that the right way to start a Jihad is by a legitimate leader chosen and/or recognized by a community; not by individuals.

PS: in case you are wondering about the heading above, it is the exclamation a Hausa-Fulani might utter where an English-speaking Westerner would go "Jesus Christ!" ("Manu" is a Hausa shortform/nickname for "Usman(u)") &mdash;iFaqeer | Talk to me! 20:16, Oct 1, 2004 (UTC)

Staring cleanup
Saw that this had a "wikify" tag, so I fixed the internal refs, and collected others. Re-wrote the introduction, but the body still needs a re-write for style and the adition/ streamlining of content.T L Miles (talk) 19:11, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070115174503/http://www.africandiasporastudies.com/downloads/bahia_slave_revolt.pdf to http://www.africandiasporastudies.com/downloads/bahia_slave_revolt.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080121114859/http://www.webstar.co.uk/~ubugaje/tradtajdid.html to http://www.webstar.co.uk/~ubugaje/tradtajdid.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080121114841/http://www.webstar.co.uk/~ubugaje/beyond.html to http://www.webstar.co.uk/~ubugaje/beyond.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080121114850/http://www.webstar.co.uk/~ubugaje/shyri.html to http://www.webstar.co.uk/~ubugaje/shyri.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100714082345/http://www.arewahouseabung.org/Bunza.pdf to http://www.arewahouseabung.org/Bunza.pdf

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Why are you deleting the picture?
The picture satisfied all Wikipedia guidelines. Why do you continue the disruptive editing ? Nigerianhistorian (talk) 03:08, 4 June 2024 (UTC)


 * That AI generated picture has no connection to Usman dan Fodio. How is it relevant to the article? Check MOS:LEADIMAGE. BlueSahelian (talk) 03:39, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Kindly check the image description and read Wikipedia's guidelines on AI-generated images!. Stop taking hasty decisions. Nigerianhistorian (talk) 03:47, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * The image has no relevance to the article though. It is an AI generated picture of a man wearing clothing from the middle east riding a horse in an environment that looks nothing like Sokoto. Can you please send me the page number where Bello gave his description of Usman in Infaq al-Maysur? BlueSahelian (talk) 04:03, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * You are wrong here. AI generated images are allowed on Wikipedia. When uploading the picture, it asks if it is an AI-generated or not. It also ask the tool or the tools used in generating the images.
 * To your second point, the picture is not my "opinion" and it does not violate the original research policy of Wikipedia. The image is an attempt to recreate what the person look like. At the time of the reign of the concerned person, Camera was not invented, but in the book "Infakul Maisur" he was described. It is using this description that I generated the picture.
 * There are no pictures in the 10th or 12th century for example, so we use art to represent Jesus, Newton or Galileo. It is the same case here.
 * Secondly, this is how Sokoto looks like (may be as at then). If you read the same book and that of Murray Last, the jihadist decided to build the their new capital (Sokoto) because of two reasons; First, that it is because it is a grassland. They are nomadic herders looking for grasslands to settle and feed their cattle. The second reason they choose the area is due to a source of water. The source of water is not depicted anyway but all other geographical features described in the book were depicted in the picture.
 * Thank you for your concern.
 * Nigerianhistorian (talk) 15:26, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * just because you were allowed to upload an image to wikimedia commons does not mean you can put it on just any article.
 * Murray Last described Sokoto as a 'hilly desert', while, according to H A S Johnston, local tradition claims the Shehu approved of the location as he hoped "corrupting wealth would never come to such a bare and stony plateau".
 * can you please send the page where Bello described Usman? BlueSahelian (talk) 20:15, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * It is even on the same page, check "personal section" you will see information including his height, complexion, etc. The then Sokoto is nowhere near desert. What you read is the Sokoto that Murray Last visited. Infact, he made comparison between the Sokoto described in Muhammed Bello's work and the Sokoto he visited when collecting the manuscripts. He said it is now a big town, not the original dimension and design given by Bello. Nigerianhistorian (talk) 21:28, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I am still waiting for that page number... BlueSahelian (talk) 15:36, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I agree with the concern being raised. An art work from the period would be acceptable as it would clearly be identifiable as the artist's impression. An image generated now based on zero reliable data is misleading as well as having zero relevance to the article. MarcGarver (talk) 15:17, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I agree also that an image made on zero reliable data should not be added to an article, especially a modern image not from any notable person. If so, anyone can sketch an image and post it on wikipedia. The page must revert the before the addition was made. And no one but the poster sees this image as acceptable. Continual reverts will be reported, see edit war Danial Bass (talk) 22:04, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Read my explanation above. Sketches are accepted on Wikipedia. It can be from any artist. The most important thing here is the correctness or otherwise of the depiction. Nigerianhistorian (talk) 22:34, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * That image is not a sketch and it is not correct. It does not even count as a depiction as it has no connection in likeness or environment to Usman dan Fodio. Putting the greenery aside, there are many other questions: Which mountain range is in the background? What type of horse is it? What saddle is being used? What clothing is being worn? These are questions that an actual artist could answer as they would have done research to confirm historical accuracy, but here there is no explanation. Watercheetah99 (talk) 06:42, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Pics like that have no value on en-WP. Don't add them. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:30, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Read my explanation above. Sketches are accepted on Wikipedia. It can be from any artist. The most important thing here is the correctness or otherwise of the depiction. Nigerianhistorian (talk) 22:34, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * That image is not a sketch and it is not correct. It does not even count as a depiction as it has no connection in likeness or environment to Usman dan Fodio. Putting the greenery aside, there are many other questions: Which mountain range is in the background? What type of horse is it? What saddle is being used? What clothing is being worn? These are questions that an actual artist could answer as they would have done research to confirm historical accuracy, but here there is no explanation. Watercheetah99 (talk) 06:42, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Pics like that have no value on en-WP. Don't add them. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:30, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

For the interested, 'Portraits' of Sheikh Usman dan Fodio. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:39, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Organisation
The page lacks organisation. Events do not follow sequences, there are alot of repetitions.

I suggest the page is organised into these chapters and subchapters

Early Life

- Lineage and childhood - Education - Influence - Scholarship

Notable Works

Reforms - Women Rights - Human Rights - Economic reforms - Land reforms

Jihad

• The Jama'a • Call for reforms • Conflicts with Nafata • Assassination attempt • Exile/Hijra • Mobilisation for a jihad • Notable companions • Second Assassination Attempt • The battle of Tabkin Kwoto • Defeat • Consolidation of power

EXPANSION OF THE JIHAD

• The Jihad at Kano • The Jihad at Katsina • The Jihad at Zek-Zek • The Jihad at Bauchi • The Jihad at Adamawa • The Jihad at Nupe • The Jihad at Gombe • The Jihad at Bauchi • The Jihad at Ilorin • The Jihad at Muri

Death

Legacy.

The "Lineage" should be moved to "Early Life" under "lineage" subsection and so on Kryst4lyf (talk) 01:54, 11 June 2024 (UTC)