Talk:Utah State University/Archive 1

Notable alumni
The Notable alumni section needs to be alphabetized, or in the alternative, categorized first (Athletes, Politicians, Scientists, etc.) and then alphabetized. A good project for one of the principal authors.--Hokeman 14:32, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Copyvio
The True Aggie section was added and was a cut and paste job from http://www.trueaggie.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=34 which was posted on April 13, 2004. The copied text was introduced on Oct 17, 2006. -- Whpq 04:56, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
 * That may be true, but only a small part of it was copied. Could it be rewritten somehow? --SuperCow 04:44, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Trivia
I'm not sure a "trivia" section is even acceptable practice anymore, but this one in particular makes a lot of claims for "biggest," "best," and "most" without any documentation or references.--Steven.Harris (T 03:05, 17 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I restored the trivia section because Template:unreferenced and Template:fact exist in Wikipedia. People can judge the value of the information, many people can help to find out the sources.--HATA A. K. (talk) 11:34, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I removed it. Those templates don't exist simply to allow any random factum to drift in article space.  See more general comments below. -  brenneman  06:54, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Athletics split
I don't think splitting out the athletics section is yet needed, as there really isn't that much info yet, and what is currently there is poorly sourced. --Eustress (talk) 15:18, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I think it should be split out. If it were a separate page, users would see the need to add more information to it. As a sub-section of Utah State University it is harder for this to happen in my opinion. Treesap (talk) 20:35, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

I too think that the split should be done because then the article can be expanded and not as short as it is now. Iamawesome800 (talk) 19:08, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

It should obviously split - athletic programs should get their own article. It'll never expand as long as it's in this article. Ideally, the football and men's basketball teams should also have their own articles, like we do with most large programs. john k (talk) 15:14, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Humanitarian Efforts in Thailand
This whole section needs to be rewritten. I attempted to clean out the hyperbole but only scratched the surface. It's written in such a self-serving style that it's hard to stomach. Frankly, it's also unclear what they were/are trying to accomplish in Thailand.--4by40 (talk) 04:20, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Found another source since the one cited was a dead link. I cleaned the section up a bit but it may still need work.--4by40 (talk) 04:04, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Tone of Speech and Debate
Is the tone better now? --SuperCow 04:51, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure if Speech & Debate section is really that relevant for the article. What do others think? --UtahStizzle (talk) 19:33, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

General Comments / Cleanup Mark II
Currently this article does not serve as a "general guide whose purpose is to illuminate." Instead it's a grab-bag collection of factoids, without much in the way of putting them into context. Over the next weeks I'll probably be doing some culling of some sections, expanding of others. - brenneman  06:56, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * You did only deletion now. You should do at once both deletions and edits because it may induce to lose information. So, I converted your deletion. To add, "this article does not serve as a "general guide whose purpose is to illuminate."" is only your judgement. You should edit after discussion.--HATA A. K. (talk) 10:29, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm with Aaron on this one, the article was in need of work, and according to WP:Be Bold there's nothing wrong with improving an article if it needs it. Of course we're all free to watch the edits and makes sure nobody goes too far, but for now this article needs some serious de-fluffing.  D a R kA g E 7 [Talk] 10:40, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Utah State University OpenCourseWare is a part of USU. USUOCW opens USU's lecture. So, the article is about usu, so the OCW does belong. To add, That must be more useful than utahstateaggies.com. Your statement may justify deletion of link of USU's center opens eduCommons, but it does not justify deletion of link of USUOCW.--HATA A. K. (talk) 14:34, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * OpenCourseWare is a service USU offers, not a direct part of the University- if you have a link to that, I suppose we should add links to www.usu.edu/studentlife/, their job website (https://jobs.usu.edu/) and, of course, a link to the on campus food services (http://www.usu.edu/dining/) as any student will tell you the food is the most important part of campus.  Seems to me that WP:EL discourages adding this, as "Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links," but looking at other Universities pages it seems I am alone in this opinion.  A link to the official athletic site is appropriate, however, as many people will be coming to this page to look up the Universities Athletics programs.   D a R kA g E 7 [Talk] 22:09, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * OpenCourseWare opens its university's lectures. These lectures are bases of university's education. It represents the most real quality of education than others. What is "university"? Is it the institute for atheletics and dinners and finding jobs? I think that university is the institute for education and research. Moreover, Wikipedia is not services for USU's students.--HATA A. K. (talk) 04:12, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * My point is who gets to decide which of the Universities programs are significant enough to be included? As the article is about the University itself, and not about OpenCourseWare, readers can just go to the University's main website and link to that. Of course the page shouldn't have a link to dining services- just as it shouldn't have a link to the OpenCourseWare.  D a R kA g E 7 [Talk] 06:19, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * University's site is maked up by the university. So, the site tend to say only good things. I think that university's lecture is about the University itself, it is whether OCW or not OCW. Of course, people can judge the quality by themselves. I think that the OCW is the database of "real quality" about the university rather than university's service. To add, the OCW website is not linked in the top page of the university's site. Almost readers may not know that OCW exists.--HATA A. K. (talk) 06:02, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * You can put a brief paragraph about some significant features of the university, and then link to a much more exhaustive article about the topic. USU is such a huge topic on so may fronts that to cover everything that there is about this school is nearly impossible, at least for an encyclopedia article.  This very petty squabble over the OCW is something that simply needs to be resolved and move on.... and doesn't deal with the fact that this article is growing to the point that it is nearly unreadable.  A whole section or even independent article just on the history of Utah State could be added, going into its role during both world wars, legislative back deals between Cache and Weber county legislators to even establish this school, the role of Brigham Young Academy (not the one in Provo, but rather in Logan and what is now the main building for Logan High School), the impact of the GI Bill on the school, and how the campus responded when Gerald R. Ford became president and his son just happened to be on campus as a student at the time.  All of this and much, much more can and should be added which is not even mentioned or touched lightly.  It doesn't even get into how it got into Playboy's top 10 party schools or other facts that may be a little bit embarrassing for the school administration.  Heck, the tradition of becoming a "True Aggie" is something that by itself ought to be mentioned at least somewhere.  --Robert Horning (talk) 01:28, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Those are great points Robert. Also, it appears you have a good deal of knowledge regarding the history of the school, and any information you'd like to add would be valuable. --UtahStizzle (talk) 03:46, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I see this article is still marked as being written like an advertisement. I'm wondering if we should at least clean it up to take out the hyperbole. That seems like a good starting point. If I don't hear any objections, I'll go ahead.--4by40 (talk) 22:47, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Massive Cleanup
Frankly, I think this whole article is a mess. It doesn't hang together or have any logical arrangement at all. A major article like this should be more than just a litany of facts. There are some sections that don't really belong here: GEGA, C.E.H.S. Every lab technique developed at USU does not need to be listed here, nor does every departmental award granted on campus. A lot of the sections and entries just seem like ego-stroking for USU personnel. Every claim of superiority ought to give a citation. There also a few factual errors: USU is N0T in the "American Midwest."--Steven.Harris (T 04:35, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree completely. This should be an overview with links to pages about the labs and the Athletics, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.123.242.148 (talk) 11:40, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

I totally agree with this as well. The logical layout of the article, to some of the information presented, needs reworking. It'd be good to look at other, better defined, university pages and get a general idea of what information may be relevant to add, as well as layout of it. I'd go as far as saying this is a very poor article in relation to most other University's. To serve as a guide, we can look at WikiProject_Universities. With that said, I plan to do a major overhaul of this article, by adding in such topics as are defined in WikiProject_Universities. I want to separate the college's and school's of USU into their own articles, where specific information pertaining to them can be placed (e.g NASA stuff, science breakthroughs, etc.). So, I'd like to move the sections of 'Space Research', 'Science Breakthroughs', 'NASA's Great Moonbuggy Race', 'Atmospheric LIDAR Observatory', and 'GEGA Program'. And possibly delete the speech & debate section which seems irrelevant to me. And add / focus on more broad topics as defined in WikiProject_Universities. That would be a good start I believe. I'd like others input into this overhaul before I do anything. --UtahStizzle (talk) 04:00, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Good luck. I assume you saw WikiProject Universities/Article guidelines? If not, it's a very helpful guide. Klubbit (talk) 02:45, 20 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I did, and intend to follow the same topic guideline listed (for the most part). I don't intend to delete any information either, just relocate it and let that be dealt with in its own respect. --UtahStizzle (talk) 21:42, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Degrees
I think the claim that USU has 176 unique bachelor's degrees should be revised. I counted just over 100 majors with bachelor's degrees, so I can only assume both BS and BA degrees are being considered "distinct". It makes more sense to list the number of undergraduate majors available, as I've seen other universities do. Even then, I'm not sure it makes sense to compare this number to other universities since, for example, one university might list a subject as a major and one as an emphasis. I doubt it could be proved either without doing some original research. Klubbit (talk) 20:56, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, some other universities do list degree programs. I'm not sure which way is better. I cleaned up the lead and removed the claim about it having the most undergraduate degree programs for now (unless a reliable source can be found). Klubbit (talk) 21:28, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Images, etc.
In addition to what's been said before, this page is in serious need of some imagework. First, the old logo/wordmark needs to be done away with, replaced by one of the official new logos which can be found at www.usu.edu/prm in the Visual Identity Program. If someone more knowledgeable than I could help out with that, that would be wonderful. It's certainly ok with the USU PR office. I work there. In addition, a few scattered campus images would really spruce this up as well.

I'm new as a Wikipedia editor, but I'm going to be making changes to this page hopefully on a regular basis until it's up to par. I went through today and cleaned up some of the major trouble spots from before, including deleting whole paragraphs that had no business being there. In addition, I attempted to cite as many sources as I could, but I'm not positive I know what I'm doing in that regard just yet. I certainly have a vested interest in making this look professional as well as encyclopedic. Thanks for your help. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jcarr29 (talk • contribs) 22:03, 20 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I uploaded a new logo and seal... I also removed the motto before noticing it on the seal. However, it still seems unnecessary to have it, and I'm not able to find anything on the USU site about an actual "motto". I tried these Google searches and didn't find anything relevant:


 * "research, service, teaching" site:usu.edu
 * "research, teaching, service" site:usu.edu


 * Anyway, add it back if you want. Also, if you have any questions, let me know. I'm not a seasoned expert or anything, but I did a lot of work on the University of Utah article a while back. Klubbit (talk) 19:08, 25 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Also, here are some helpful links for you:
 * User:Mr.Z-man/refToolbar - easy tool for creating proper citations
 * College and university article guidelines
 * Image use policy - note that images must be under a free license, and I'm guessing most official university images won't be
 * Neutral point of view, Conflict of interest, Verifiability, No original research - especially relevant since you work for USU PR
 * Klubbit (talk) 19:33, 25 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for helping out with this. We really need to clean up this article. The campus section is great. I also think many of the colleges should have their own entry, and just a brief overview of them on this article. I think the humanitarian, environmental, and research sections should have their own article. This is just a general entry for the University and we can't possibly put every bit of research on the page, or every humanitarian effort. It may also be a good idea to have a 'history' section and put some of the information from the very beginning of the article in it. I have many pictures I have taken of and around USU should we need any specific ones, let me know --UtahStizzle (talk) 03:34, 9 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I'd love to see whatever photos you have. I work directly with the official university photographer, but with many of her images, we prefer not to enter them into the public domain if we don't have to. What can you show me? Jcarr29 (talk) 19:00, 14 January 2010 (UTC)


 * If you check out my talk page I have a link to my gallery for pictures I've uploaded. Some appear to already have been used here. But if there's any specific requests I can see what I have, as many aren't uploaded yet...--UtahStizzle (talk) 05:04, 22 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Looks like you have some good stuff.I don't suppose you have any interiors of the Merrill-Cazier Library, the Spectrum, or in fact any other images showing the grounds and the facilities either inside or out? Basically anything high-quality could really add. Actually, a better shot of Old Main wouldn't hurt either. Thanks. Jcarr29 (talk) 21:26, 25 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually, I have a few that could work well. I just need to resize some and upload them. I'll do that here this week. --UtahStizzle (talk) 22:54, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Student Life
I think the Student Life section doesn't give the detail that I think it deserves. It doesn't include anything about The Howl (rumored to be the biggest halloween party west of the Mississippi), the Service Center, or information about the student government. I don't want the student life to get too long, but I think it would serve to expand "USU students are also involved in more than 200 clubs, an active and influential student government, fraternities and sororities, multiple intramural and club sports, and a student-run radio station". I don't think it deserves an additional article, but I feel like it doesn't serve the article well to lump it all into one sentence.

I started with the Service Center.

Service In 1970, Utah State student Sue Brown and Director of Student Activities Val R. Christensen created a service organization as a positive response, rather than protesting, to the Vietnam War. VOICE, Volunteer Organization for Involvement in the Community and Environment, worked to improve the environment and social issues in Cache Valley. VOICE became The Val R. Christensen Service Center in 1999 in honor of Dr. Christensen’s efforts and support of the organization. Today, students are involved in more than 20 service organizations including Aggie Special Olympics, Aggies for Africa, Alternative Breaks, and Senior University.

Do you think this is necessary? Edits to the Service Center bit are welcome.

My source

Jhunt47 (talk) 17:50, 7 December 2010 (UTC)


 * As long as it's all well-sourced and not too long it sounds like expanding the section a bit would be good. Best of luck and let us know if you have any more questions! ElKevbo (talk) 18:37, 7 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I am considering adding a "Logan Campus" page including student life, the innovation campus, transportation, etc. Thoughts?Jhunt47 (talk) 21:09, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Innovation Campus
I noticed that nowhere in the article did it mention the Innovation Campus. I feel like it is something worth adding, so I have collected some basic information about it. Innovation Campus. I'm going to continue adding, but would love some help. Jhunt47 (talk) 08:04, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Claim about sustainability
I'm as ecofriendly as the next guy, but the following claim concerns me. " Aggie Blue Bikes is a popular student-run program that checks bicycles out to students free of charge for a semester at a time. Since the program began in 2005, commuter traffic on campus has decreased by half." Help? Jhunt47 (talk) 09:57, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I checked the source and I couldn't find where it said anything about Aggie Blue Bikes
 * I think the claim is a little outrageous
 * I can't find anywhere else that makes that claim

Swaner EcoCenter
"With the 2010 gift of the Swaner EcoCenter to the university, USU now owns and operates over 8,200 acres (33 km2) of land and facilities throughout the state." Does not belong in the Logan Campus section. Should there be a section on the regional campuses and include facilities the university owns outside of Cache Valley?Jhunt47 (talk) 17:49, 7 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I am collecting information for the Swaner EcoCenter. Feel free to contribute here. Swaner EcoCenter Jhunt47 (talk) 08:16, 6 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I finished the page on the Swaner Preserve and EcoCenter. Jhunt47 (talk) 09:59, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Pictures
The pictures in the article need to be placed in either a gallery at the bottom of the page or repositioned so that they are not sandwiching the article content. I really don't want to fix the problem (I have other things on my to-do list), but I can if I need to. Corkythe hornetfan  (ping me) 06:04, 9 August 2016 (UTC)