Talk:Utawarerumono/Archive 2

What exactly...
Alright in this series there are basically humans with the fox ears and without the ears. I noticed that basically everyone is reffered to as human. But is there a name for the fox eared people. -- Psi edit 03:41, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Fox ears? As far as I know, everyone has furry ears. Some just cover them up with cloth. -Raijinili 04:33, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Hokuoro doesnt have the ears, Oboro has elve-like ears, has normal ears, Eruruuu's people have the ears (Males have the ears, Females have the ears and tail), I really would just like to point this out in the article. -- Psi edit 13:46, 21 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Although hidden beneath his hair, Benawi has animal-like ears, according to designer or someone from Leaf... I think I saw that on some magazine years back then.
 * Possibly same ear to Oboro, for an unused script extracted from game file says they're cousin. --222.159.235.47 00:53, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm willing to believe you, but I don't see proof that their ears are not pointed. Which isn't furry, so I was wrong. - Raijinili 05:42, 23 July 2006 (UTC)


 * All this talk of ears, what does it have to do with the article? Anyway, the original question: "But is there a name for the fox eared people". As far as I know, the anime/game does not give a special name to people with animal ears. Roxybudgy 11:37, 23 July 2006 (UTC)


 * It has to do with the article because. Some people may ask "why do these people have animal ears?" . Some of the characters look different than others, its just some detail. -- Psi edit 04:26, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

1- "As far as I know, the anime/game does not give a special name to people with animal ears.  - There are names for the different races(?) which each have different ears/tails/things. Touka/Genjimaru- Evenkuruga, Karura/Whatshisnameherbrother- Girigisomething, forgot the rest. 2- "Why do these people have animal ears?" - One of the scientists who made them probably had a kemonomimi fetish.w Omgwtflolz 10:18, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Game evidence
This is already the second time we've had to correct people on this. I admit myself, the first time I saw them I thought they were female, but I know now they're male.--Juhachi 04:18, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Someone wrote they were sisters again!? Yare yare... they do look like girls at first glance. It'll be a shock for people to finally understand their true gender. I think people will get it eventually. Mirioki 05:09, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Make that three times we've had to change it. This is seriously getting annoying. <_<--Juhachi 02:38, 14 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I have a good idea of how to fix this... someone did this in the FSN page once, I think this will work. Hehe... you'll be surprised once you start editing the page about what I did. Mirioki 04:04, 14 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Ooh, nice Mirioki. I'm going to have to remember that. =)--Juhachi 04:43, 14 May 2006 (UTC)


 * THEY ARE BROTHERS FOR THE FINAL TIME! YOU WANT VERIFICATION! HERE'S YOUR VERIFICATION! Mirioki 16:54, 14 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I can't believe someone did it again even after all that. This better stop here. -_- And why does anime do this to us anyway? I've already had enough trouble being confused on Naruto with Haku and Gaara's Uncle (who I thought was his aunt).--Juhachi 17:52, 14 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Ohhh, I thought they were female, but that link proves it (for those who can't read Japanese, Dori says "Hai, otoko desu kedo", which translates to "Yes, although I'm a boy"). But are they both male or are they brother and sister, or just both brothers? Roxybudgy 07:07, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Per the information provided from the game, I believe it's already been extablished that they are both indeed male. Good thing too since the editing of their characters' profile finally stopped.--Juhachi 07:34, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Find someone to translate this http://nrvnqsr.proboards20.com/index.cgi?board=amg&action=display&thread=1142064836&page=8#1147504879 What is this link you ask? Screencaps from the game proving they are boys! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Juhachi (talk • contribs) 01:46, 28 July 2006.


 * Here's a translation of the event in the game: http://www.yesy-fansubs.com//board/viewtopic.php?t=828
 * So the information about the two should stay as it is, unless the anime clearly states otherwise. Roxybudgy 11:37, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Tails and gender
They're actually probably the result of klinefelter's syndrome or similar- as they display female-only traits but are otherwise male. For example, in the Utawarerumono world, only females have tails, but Dori and Guru clearly do. So, their gender is more of questionable than anything. -- ktemkin 19:14, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, there are males with tales that have been presented in the anime, you have haven't noticed. Why is this discussion still going on? They're male; end of story.--Juhachi 19:12, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Episode seven, around 9 minutes, at the strategical meeting before the storming of the fortress you see plenty of males with a lot of tails. Tail crisis solved. Red storm 19:33, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Just for the record, Genjimaru has a tail. And unless my memory's failing me, so does Karura's brother. Omgwtflolz 17:12, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Episode 6 pedler and jewelry scene
I really think that the producers of the anime wanted to make them females as opposed to their original gender in the game version. There's two scenes in the anime that seem to point them out as females. In episode 6, when the peddler was showing off his wares, he said something about jewelry that would look good on women. Now, it may be that he mistook them to be girls but then the twins tried on some of the jewelry as if it was their cue after what the peddler said. The other scene is also in the same episode and actually, the screenshot can be seen directly in that link. While what the peddler was saying may also have been his ignorance or whatever so the second scene is more ambigious I guess. Of course, the twins could just enjoy cross-dressing... but highly unlikely (POV) since the setting of the story takes place a long time ago, they are quite skilled in archery (meaning that they are war-hardened and probably do not have the time to do hobbies), and they were presumingly brought up by Tsukuru (primary) and Oboro. If you don't like how people keep rewriting them to be females based on the anime, then perhaps (if only as a temporary measure) add a section under the twins indicating that in the anime, it is possible that they were cast as females. And when someone asks the directors of the anime directly about their gender, then we can know for sure. :) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.156.114.183 (talk • contribs) 22:12, 10 June 2006 (UTC).


 * That's all nice and dandy, but when you consider that even in the game they were mistaken as girls, it's safe to assume that the anime is keeping that aspect of the game true. All that you just explained is all circumstancial evidence anyway with no real proof. In the game, it was proven they were male, so we might as well just assume they are male in the anime too.--Juhachi 21:27, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Episode 12 evidence 'bokutachi'
I just recalled, I may have something, in episode 12 the twins lay out a plan telling the group how they searched, and they reffered to themselves as 'bokutachi' now, I'm no expert on Japanese, but isn't boku usually used by guys? red storm
 * Ah, that is true, but it's not unheard of for girls to use 'boku' to refer to themselves. Now, I'm not saying the twins are girls, because I believe them to be guys, but this can't be used as conclusive evidence either. Also, there have been males that refer to themselves as 'watashi' that I know of. -- (' 十八  |  talk ') 20:54, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Not that I mean to go against your evidence, but watashi is technically gender-neutral, even though it's rarely used by guys. In formal occasions, guys may use Watashi. 24.47.61.252 07:30, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Episode 17 bed scene
In episode 17 of the television series, there is a very definite scene that identifies Dori and Gura's sexuality... namely, they sleep with Oboro. They're girls, no question. Unless Oboro is homosexual or gay... there is still no evidence that they are male or female...

Shouldn't this be discussed in the Talk page? Anyway, can't be bothered translating the entire scene, but in short, in the game, Hakuoro makes a comment about 'those twin girls', and Oboro tells Hakuoro that they are actually boys.

Watch episode 17 closely: They have tails. Only females have tails!

And of course you watched anime closely, where many anonymous males in uprising also had tails, so does Genjimaru. Now stop dreaming and accept the fact: only canonical statement about their gender is they, and Oboro, said that they're indeed boys in game.

Aside, don't you see how stupid it is to say it might just be different in anime? How would you think if you see, say, Wolverine in X-Men suddenly became female in movie adaption? You're basically saying the same thing.

Slept with Oboro? Would you suddenly turn into girl if you sleep with other male? Surely you've experienced that once when you were a child, you had some nap with your dad or someone close?

In episode 17 of the anime series, there's a scene (a flashback, to be specific, of the night before), that Oboro gives, where he spends time with Dori and Gura (and Oboro is drinking, with Dori and Gura serving him sake), and that they all sleep together at the end. The fact that they all sleep together seems pretty solid that Dori and Gura are girls in the anime. Further, you can see in the sleeping scene the difference in upper muscle tone and skin color, in comparison to Oboro's (his skin is slightly darker, and his upper arm muscles are larger than Dori's or Gura's). You can even be able to point at the covering of the blanket in the sleeping scene for support that Dori and Gura are girls. For Oboro, the blanket only covers his genetalia, leaving his chest exposed; in comparison, for both Dori and Gura, the blanket covers both areas. If Dori and Gura were both male, there would be no particular reason to cover the chest area, and the blanket could be shifted downwards.

Although the game explicitly states that Dori is male, the anime has pretty solid support for both Dori and Gura being female. --Prologician 22:47, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

There's really nothing in episode 17 to declare them absolutely as female. One, their androgeny seems just to be a way to mess with the viewers, so now everyone has to wonder about Oboro too. The placement of the blanket really does nothing to confirm gender. The article should not state that they are female in the anime until it is more clear.--24.171.105.2 23:03, 26 July 2006 (UTC)


 * That whole explanation of epi 17 really means nothing in the end since any one else could still argue that they are guys for the lack of concrete evidence that they are female. Plus, I bet the animation studio had this planned from the start just to mess with the viewers. -- (' 十八  |  talk ') 23:17, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the Scene in Episode 17 happens in the game too, where they have already been explicitly defined as male. Oboro describes it (excuse my loose translation) as: "The twins kept giving me more sake. ('More sake, wakasama?') until we were all quite drunk. There was then much horesplay, and we all lost our clothes, and all woke up naked, much to our embarrasment.'" See: http://api.ktemkin.com/images/dorigura_stillguys.PNG Since this happened in both the game and the Anime, there's not any strong reason to suspect that the animators changed Dori and Gura to girls. Ktemkin

Episode 18 trip
Dori and Gura don't help kidnap Hakuoro. THEY ARE THUS NOT FEMALE. >_> --Raijinili 21:48, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
 * That is purely circumstancial evidence... -- (' 十八  |  talk ') 01:16, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Radio evidence
Another evidence from Utawarerumono Radio #4 (7/28):

Koyama(Hakuoro VC) said in opening talk of Challange DoriGura: "Dori and Gura are a pair of twin brothers, and..." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 222.159.235.47 (talk • contribs) 14:57, 28 July 2006 (UTC).


 * While I believe that they are male, what exactly was said in the interview? Depending on how it's written, 'kyoudai'　兄弟 can mean 'siblings', in other words, 'brothers'　兄弟 or 'sisters'　姉妹. Unless there is another word for 'brothers'. Roxybudgy 02:03, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Point, but I do personally think that kind of usage is more of literary style than spoken style - I don't remember hearing spoken '兄弟' refers to sisters, at least not very often.
 * (Though I've seen 兄妹(Kyoudai) refers to a pair of older brother and young sister relatively often than above case, but well, how can they be anything but monozygotic?)
 * Still, as it's based on my guesswork, I think it's not as much as explicate like how it was in game. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 222.159.235.47 (talk • contribs) 05:43, 29 July 2006 (UTC).


 * There is no word for "brothers" or "sisters" in the Japanese Language. They have been confirmed as males. SO please stop this discussion. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.119.211.47 (talk • contribs) 06:38, 27 August 2006 (UTC).


 * Please sign your comments. Just about everyone agrees that they are males in the game. But their gender in the anime is still up for debate. Also, the Japanese word for 'siblings' can mean 'brothers' or 'sisters' depending on how it's written. Roxybudgy 13:01, 27 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Sisters = 姉妹 = shimai. Omgwtflolz 07:40, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Developer's comments for DVD release
Developer's Q&A that announces the differences between DVD release and Original PC states that... Hakuoro Effect - When a female unit is in hexes around Hakuoro, she receives 25% bonus to offence and an enemy tries to attack her will get -25% penalty to offence. It should be noted that Dori and Gura are not female. This effectively proves that (at least in game) they're male from begining. Even more funny is that they gets their bonus from Oboro instead... *giggle* -58.0.211.214 12:21, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Karuras back story
Its funny that a person as strong as karura is a slave. in episode 10, where she is introduced, she manages to break her chains, escape from the ship and kill its crew with her bare hands. How was such a strong <> girl enslaved? Another comment she makes that her slave collar cannot be removed, when she could probably remoe it herself is interesting.... maybe she willingly accepted slavery in exchange for something? also her interactions with Urutori, who happens to be a big official, indicate that Karura was probably a very important offical herself, before she became a slave. I request the people familiar with the story/game etc to clariy me on this and if possible to provide karuras back story ^^ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 220.226.15.134 (talk • contribs) 19:30, 2 August 2006 (UTC).


 * Karura used to be a young queen before a political upheaval led to the destruction of the Giryagina (her race). She doesn't remove the slave collar because she doesn't want to be identified as the Princess Karurawarei, but instead wants to live a quiet life as Karura. Ktemkin 07:09, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Spoilers
FOR GOD'S SAKE. Putting a spoiler warning at the START OF AN ARTICLE DOES NOT MEAN YOU CAN PUT THE BIGGEST SPOILER FOR THE WHOLE GOD DAMN GAME RIGHT THERE ON THE FRONT PAGE. PEOPLE SEE IT BEFORE THEY CAN CLICK AWAY. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.9.69.92 (talk • contribs) 13:46, 3 August 2006 (UTC).


 * "...Wikipedia, which strives first to inform, spoilers or not". In other words, yes it does. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by  Omgwtflolz (talk • contribs) 00:36, 4 August 2006 (UTC).

Character sub-sections
Dorii and Guraa are main characters, and Mikoto and Mutsumi aren't? Very smart. Omgwtflolz 23:32, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Backstory: Eruru and Aruru
Eruru and Aruru are mentioned in the backstory section. I seem to recall that the Eruru and Aruru from the series were named after their ancestors with the same names - if I have recollected correctly, is is this pair of sisters referred to here? Shiroi Hane 18:42, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't know about being named after ancestors (they are named after flowers), but I'm certain that the Eruruu and Aruruu from the backstory are the same as the ones in the present Utawarerumono. Roxybudgy 00:29, 8 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Tusukuru = Aruruu. I think the story was given that Eruruu gave her life up to protect something or another, and Aruruu was waiting for her, and that's where the flowers story comes in.--Raijinili 14:30, 8 August 2006 (UTC)


 * They're definitely the ones from the present Utaware. Explicitly stated in the game, and now has appeared in 22.24.47.61.252 04:45, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Underwater Ray Romano
Pretty positive Utawarerumono has nothing to do with the american TV character. Removing references to this. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ztella (talk • contribs) 19:00, 13 August 2006 (UTC).


 * I believe both "Underwater Ray Romano" and "Carrier" are 4chan memes. Shiroi Hane 03:27, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Romanization of Names
When romanizing the names, it's best to keep to the ISO standard (ISO 3602, Kunrei-shiki romanization) rather than reverting back to Hepburn. Hence, the kana RU+U would result in Ruu, and not Rū.

This also increases the ease of understanding the article, as many fansub groups and even parts of the Utawareru Mono web site write the names this way when using romaji. Ktemkin 20:00, 14 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The way names are written are sort of unusual. Wikipedia does have a standard for romanizing names, but I'm not sure what it says about the small 'a,i,u,e,o'. I guess when ADV releases DVDs next year, the article would follow that. Also please sign your comments. Roxybudgy 23:37, 14 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Still, it's better to follow an international standard than use an outdated 1800's method for romanization; especially considering the ISO standard has the one-vowel-per-kana, which makes it a lot easier to understand. Ktemkin 16:14, 16 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia has a standard (convention), which is revised hepburn, per WP:MOS-JA. Shiroi Hane 01:53, 19 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Didn't know that. QED, then. 72.254.27.255 05:33, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Blade of the Phantom Mask

 * I know you lot believe it to be very plausible ADV messed up the titles, a certain "fan" of that corporation known as "Fencedude" had a chat with an ADV exec. who explained the original title, "Shadow Warrior Chronicles", is just a pending title. Ergo, SWC is the official title unless ADV wants to change it; there wasn't a mix-up Meaning ADV didn't mix up the titles for Utawarerumono and Shin Angyo Onshi. 68.189.82.81 03:41, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Utawareru Mono vs. Utawarerumono
Any opinions on the romanization of these seven kana? Technically, they're two words, Utawareru (a form of to sing) and Mono (Thing), making "The Thing Being Sung" or "The One Being Sung". So, should we keep it Utawarerumono despite the fact that it's easier to understand as its two component words? Ktemkin 07:41, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well for one at ANN, it's listed as one word and at Google, Utawarerumono hits 314,000 while Utawareru Mono hits only 25,000. So I say to keep it as one word. -- (' 十八  |  talk ') 07:53, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, typically, when searching for Utawarerumono, results are returned about the anime, when searching for Utawareru Mono, results are returned for the game. Should we perhaps change it to Utawarerumono, (or sometimes Utawareru Mono) or something like that? Ktemkin 17:23, 31 August 2006 (UTC)


 * If anything, it should be consistant throughout the article with maybe a mention that the game title is often referred to with two words when romanized instead of just one. And what do you mean change it to Utawarerumono? Isn't it already like that? -- (' 十八  |  talk ') 18:50, 31 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Personally, I'm happy with Utawarerumono as one word. Shiroi Hane 13:59, 3 September 2006 (UTC)


 * 1- Person, not thing. 2- It's one word. Do you even understand the language? Omgwtflolz 07:42, 8 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Who are you replying to? Shiroi Hane 22:16, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * The original topic maker. Not everyone knows the proper way to indent. --Raijinili 02:58, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Avu-Kamuu
The Avu-Kamuu are not mechas, considering mechs stand for mechanical robots. While they do resemble mechas, they are instead living suits of near-impenetrable armor, and not mechas at all. Please use the correct name of 'avu-kamuu' instead of 'mechas' in episode summaries. Ktemkin 17:29, 31 August 2006 (UTC)