Talk:Utica, New York/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Jsayre64 (talk · contribs) 16:47, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

I will start my review shortly. Jsayre64  (talk)  16:47, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you very, very much. I felt as if it would be December by the time this article was reviewed, but I have been checking the GAN page every few days. A ton of work has been put into it after its worst vandalised revision (though most revisions since its inception have been subpar). Buffaboy  talk 19:35, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's definitely much improved from that version. I saw this was one of the older GANs, and I figured it was sensible to review it before I nominated an article I've been working on for FA. Jsayre64   (talk)  20:38, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria


 * 1) Is it reasonably well written?
 * A. Prose is "clear and concise", without copyvios, or spelling and grammar errors:
 * B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:
 * 1) Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
 * A. Has an appropriate reference section:
 * B. Cites reliable sources, where necessary:
 * C. No original research:
 * 1) Is it broad in its coverage?
 * A. Major aspects:
 * B. Focused (see summary style):
 * 1) Is it neutral?
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * 1) Is it stable?
 * No edit wars, etc:
 * 1) Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
 * A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:
 * B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass or Fail:
 * 1) Is it stable?
 * No edit wars, etc:
 * 1) Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
 * A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:
 * B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass or Fail:
 * B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass or Fail:
 * Pass or Fail:


 * The lead jumps straight from the Mohawk tribe to immigrants, cities and canals; it should briefly mention the in-between history—when white people first arrived and settled.
 * As the guidelines recommend at WP:LEADCITE, have citations in the lead section only for challengeable/controversial info. In this case, that would include “Sin City” and “the city that God forgot”. Make sure that all info. in the lead is repeated and cited in the body of the article.
 * Be more specific with causes and effects in the lead’s third paragraph. Regarding population loss, industrial decline, and poverty, briefly identify which caused which and when.
 * I still think that paragraph could do a better job saying what caused the downturn and what the effects were. Was industrial decline a main cause? Were people moving to the suburbs before factories closed and jobs were lost? Jsayre64   (talk)  02:03, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I can definitely expand upon that. Buffaboy  talk 13:04, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I still think that paragraph could do a better job saying what caused the downturn and what the effects were. Was industrial decline a main cause? Were people moving to the suburbs before factories closed and jobs were lost? Jsayre64   (talk)  02:03, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I can definitely expand upon that. Buffaboy  talk 13:04, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I can definitely expand upon that. Buffaboy  talk 13:04, 20 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Avoid placing images on both sides of the same text and where they disrupt headings - WP:IMGLOC.
 * ✅, although I think I did the best I can with this.
 * Make sure every paragraph ends with at least one citation to a reliable source supporting the info.
 * It would be helpful to split the history section into sub-sections like 18th century, 19th century, etc.
 * In the geography section, 16.4 square miles plus 0.3 equals 16.7, not 16.6, and the 1.57% figure doesn’t make sense either.
 * Also, many of the % values in the demographics section, prose and table, don't add up. Jsayre64   (talk)  05:51, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I've triple checked the numbers between the source and the table/prose, and despite them not adding up to 100%, they are the right numbers. It's pretty strange, but Seattle and Minneapolis have the same issue however.
 * Also, many of the % values in the demographics section, prose and table, don't add up. Jsayre64   (talk)  05:51, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I've triple checked the numbers between the source and the table/prose, and despite them not adding up to 100%, they are the right numbers. It's pretty strange, but Seattle and Minneapolis have the same issue however.
 * I've triple checked the numbers between the source and the table/prose, and despite them not adding up to 100%, they are the right numbers. It's pretty strange, but Seattle and Minneapolis have the same issue however.

Don't worry that these are major issues. They can be addressed without too much trouble. -- Jsayre64  (talk)  04:52, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The climate section says the city’s record low is -28 F, while the table below says it’s -30 F.
 * The issue I had with the weather table was a lack of information on Utica's weather statistics. I was able to get the record high, but couldn't find the record low. Utica does not have an NWS office in the city, nor an airport, so I had to use the Rome, NY statistics for the table, and the record highs and lows in the prose are from the Weather Underground website. How can I consolidate all of these sources into one in the absence of reliable weather data?
 * In that case, I think you should keep the Rome statistics in the table (labeled, of course) and have relevant numbers for Utica in the prose. When numbers for Utica are unavailable, use numbers from Rome and indicate that it's Rome. Jsayre64   (talk)  17:22, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
 * In the topography section, mention the Mohawk name for the city.
 * Add citations in the sports teams table like it’s done in the demographics table, or put them in a separate column titled “reference” or “references.”
 * Try to avoid less-reliable sources like IMDb, which is a wiki (see WP:UGC); look for a replacement source supporting the info.
 * This isn’t in the GA criteria, but it's still important to use the GA toolbox in the upper right to fix links and things.
 * Try to avoid less-reliable sources like IMDb, which is a wiki (see WP:UGC); look for a replacement source supporting the info.
 * This isn’t in the GA criteria, but it's still important to use the GA toolbox in the upper right to fix links and things.
 * This isn’t in the GA criteria, but it's still important to use the GA toolbox in the upper right to fix links and things.
 * I've asked here about the copyright status of three images used in the article. Jsayre64   (talk)  05:14, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * If I wanted to use historical imagery in an article and I didn't know the copyright details, would an email be used as evidence? That's not the case here though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Buffaboy (talk • contribs) 16:47, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, a historical image would have to meet the requirements here. If it doesn't, WP:COPYREQ explains how you can ask a copyright holder (usually by email) to release an image under a free license so you can upload it. Jsayre64   (talk)  20:23, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, it looks like at least one of the images currently in the article will have to be deleted. Jsayre64   (talk)  21:50, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * In a perfect world all kinds of historical portraits and imagery could be at my fingertips, but I will say that the removal of that image doesn't compromise the integrity of the article. Buffaboy  talk 21:53, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Right. You can put one or two helpful ones in the external links, though. Here are some more things:

-- Jsayre64  (talk)  22:20, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * One more reference is needed in the collegiate teams table.
 * If possible, find and add info. to the history section about when the Mohawk people arrived in the area and some details about their ways of life. Then the lead could benefit from a short summary of that info.
 * The guideline at WP:FURTHER isn't specific, but everything in the further reading section should be helpful to readers. And make sure that the references, further reading, and external links sections don't have duplicate listings.
 * The guideline at WP:FURTHER isn't specific, but everything in the further reading section should be helpful to readers. And make sure that the references, further reading, and external links sections don't have duplicate listings.
 * The guideline at WP:FURTHER isn't specific, but everything in the further reading section should be helpful to readers. And make sure that the references, further reading, and external links sections don't have duplicate listings.


 * The property crime numbers in the table don't match what's in the prose. Also, in the table, sources should be cited by footnote just like in the prose.
 * It's OK that the text gives the 2013 and 2014 statistics, but the table should list all the 2014 numbers if possible. Jsayre64   (talk)  17:50, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * New data actually just came out a couple weeks ago for 2015, so I'll update them to that.

-- Jsayre64  (talk)  00:26, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Not a big deal, but I'm not sure why the last note in the notes section is formatted differently than the other three footnotes there.
 * Try to eliminate duplicate links.
 * Try to eliminate duplicate links.
 * Interesringly enough, this happened today. Is it worthy of addition to the article, and if so, where? Buffaboy  talk 16:03, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * You could add a sentence to the history section about that—if it's considered big news for central New York. I don't think it should go in the economy section because it sounds like those jobs won't take effect until a couple years from now. Jsayre64   (talk)  17:20, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I think this can wait for a while until more information comes out.


 * Economy: “While the decline of the local textile industry during the early 20th century had a significant impact on the local economy, the industry remained stagnant until the late 1940s, when air-conditioned mills opened in the southern United States.” I find this sentence confusing because “while” is usually used to set up a contrast/comparison, but it doesn’t seem to be used that way here. I recommend the sentence be changed to something like the following, if this is accurate: “In the early 20th century, the local textile industry began to decline, which had a significant impact on the local economy. When air-conditioned mills opened in the southern United States in the late 1940s, they replaced more of Utica’s factory-based economy.”
 * The sentence you proposed would be best, fixed.
 * Law, government, and politics: at the end of the first paragraph, specify what party dominated Utica politics in the 20th century.
 * “Utica is served by the United States District Court for the Northern District of New York, with offices in the Alexander Pirnie Federal Building.” This should probably be moved to somewhere in the first paragraph where it would be more on-topic and would fit in better.
 * I moved some things around.
 * Culture: “The restored Hotel Utica, designed by Esenwein & Johnson in 1912, had become a nursing and residential-care facility until the mid-1970s; notable guests included Franklin D. Roosevelt, Judy Garland and Bobby Darin.” I don’t know how reliable the article for Hotel Utica is, but it says that the building operated as a hotel from 1912 until the mid-1970s, when it became an adult care facility, and once again became a hotel in the 21st century.
 * But did it actually operate as a hotel between 1912 and the mid-1970s, instead of a residential-care facility during that time period? Jsayre64   (talk)  04:18, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The book source was unclear, the web source was correct. Fixed.
 * But did it actually operate as a hotel between 1912 and the mid-1970s, instead of a residential-care facility during that time period? Jsayre64   (talk)  04:18, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The book source was unclear, the web source was correct. Fixed.

-- Jsayre64  (talk)  04:55, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Parks and recreation: The “Gives Utica Four Parks” NY Times article cited, which I found here, says nothing about the info. in the second sentence of this section.
 * ✅ I don't remember adding that (I probably didn't), but I've added a supporting ref.
 * A few of the citations to books don’t include page numbers, which are important since many books are only off-line.
 * Just so I can keep track, the ISBNs are


 * 9780804740142✅
 * 9780387251547✅
 * 9780470068649✅
 * 9781780056326✅
 * No page numbers are in the book.
 * 9780979596902✅


 * Good progress. I know these are a lot of things to deal with at once. The remaining issues are the clarity in the lead, citations supporting the ends of paragraphs, the geography numbers, the numbers in the demographics table, and page numbers for book sources where possible. Jsayre64   (talk)  17:31, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The article has passed GA. Congratulations. Jsayre64   (talk)  16:51, 25 August 2015 (UTC)