Talk:Utility pole

Streets lined with utility poles
It is funny about the piece about Eastern Europe and Russia. Having lived in the Czech Republic for many years, a country considered by some to be in Eastern Europe, and also in the United States, I can say that I have without a doubt seen more utility poles in the latter than in the former. Especially the comment about them being found in urban areas struck me as particularly funny, since I have never seen a telephone pole in any European city, whereas in the US, even in a city such as Chicago, there are streets lined with utility poles. It seems to me that age and a sense of aesthetic, which Europe has and the US famously lacks, has a bit to do with it: in Europe utility poles are buried where possible, in the US they are not. Why wouldn't someone research this and put it up there? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.175.23.32 (talk) 17:02, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Telegraph post
Do we still need the other Telegraph Post entry?

First telephone poles
how about when were telephone poles created? i bet there was alot of contraversy

Size and dimension of Utility Poles?
Refer to ANSI standard 05.1-2002 for specific dimensions and tolerances of wood utility poles.76.84.128.228 (talk) 05:27, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I would like to know the basic dimensions of different poles.

Poles have different heights and circumferences based on several factors the first is clearance (we don't really want people coming into contact with energized conductors). Railroads and Interstate highways require higher clearances than county roads, which need more clearance than a pasture full of cattle. The second is span or the distance between poles. Metals expand and contract as temperatures rise and fall. During a very hot day this can result in a considerable amount of "sag" over 1/16th or 1/8th of a mile (remember that people and live wires don't mix). Additonally, a poles circumference is determined by the the species of wood (some are stronger than others), and how much load (weight) is the pole to support. RUS bulletins instruct utility companies to use a pole that is 4 times stronger than is actually needed to support the wires (in case of decay or other damage to a pole, or the event of severe weather like ice or heavy winds). ANSI standards, RUS bulletins and trained engineers are needed to determine the exact size of pole needed. Local regulations are also a factor someplaces.76.84.128.228 (talk) 05:27, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I can not tell how tall they are... for different purposes.

I would like to scale model them with realistic dimensions for a diarama

In 1844 Samuel Morse set the first telegraph pole.76.84.128.228 (talk) 05:27, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * When was the telephone pole invented?

In the United States the poles set within the Railroad ROW next to the grade are communication lines for the railroad. These generally have relatively light conductor and are strung upon glass insulators rather than the ceramic used by Electric utilities. Railroads are phasing these out either removing them from service or simply abandoning them as they utilize more effecient communications system like satellite and microwave. Even though they are used for communications these conductors do carry lethal voltages when in service.76.84.128.228 (talk) 05:27, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Why are poles next to railroad tracks much shorter than other poles?

In the U.S. the NESC (National Electric Safety Code) mandates and regulates minimum clearances for any conductor that carries electricity. This includes not only electric transmission, and distribution lines but also telephony, and CATV as well. Determining factors include not just voltage but the type of conductor, the local geography, and proximity to different structures, and other Right of Ways (such as Highways, Railroads, Canals, and Rivers)76.84.128.228 (talk) 05:27, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * How to calculate the hight of the pole and conductor hight from ground for 110kv,11Kv


 * Each utility has standards for height and class (strength) for poles, depending on the span, the weight of conductors, the voltage level, the allowable ground clearance between poles, and whether it is a line pole, a corner pole or a deadend pole.Edison 20:40, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

''This is true however, the utility must also follow the guidelines from ANSI, NESC, and RUS bulletins from the Department of Agriculture in addition to local and state regulations. Most utilities simply adopt these standards.''76.84.128.228 (talk) 05:27, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

new image available
Image:Utility pole transformers.jpg I'm not sure it's any better than what's there now.. but I just wanted to let folks know it exists. The top of this pole is about 20 feet from my front porch and would be happy to model for closeups of pole features.. ;-) --Versageek 19:42, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Re: Height of Telephone pole
To find height of a Telephone pole in the US, simply locate a manufacture tag, located 6-7 feet up the pole, next to the Utility number tag. According to the AWPA standards, all piles, and poles shall have these brands. An example Tag, goes something like this:

TAYLOR TREATING 3-1994-45     DFP SHERIDAN OREGON

Translation: Taylor Treating is the manufacturer. Sheridan Oregon, the location. 1994, the date of piling, and treatment. DFP, indicates this is a Douglas-Fir pole. "3", indicates the utility class of pole. "45" represents the height of pole.

The general rule is, a pole 40 ft tall is set 6 feet in the ground, and a pole 45 feet set 6.5 feet in the ground, etc. This then indicates this pole is 38 feet 6 inches above ground level, and another 6-8 inches to the transformer connection. Thus 39-feet overall height above ground level.--71.222.59.133 04:05, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

In the brand example cited above the ANSI loading class is missing, the 3 preceding the 4 digit vintage (year) would reference the month of manufacture (March). The 45 would probably be 4.5 an amount of pressure treatment used in manufacturing as class/height information is generally on a seperate line. In the United States the brand information is required to comply with RUS bulletines, ANSI standards, and AWPA guidelines. However, the exact format of the information is not clearly defined by these institutions. The details are worked out between Purchaser and Manufacturer. As a general "rule of thumb" the brand is usually at "eye level", inline on the side of the pole that the insulator pin is located. This usually is apx. 90 degrees from a utility companies tags which are usually "roadside" for ready identification.

In the United States ANSI standards and RUS bulletins both direct pole embeddment for most conditions as 10% of a poles length butt to pole top +2 foot (i.e. a 40 foot tall pole would be set 4 + 2 or 6 foot while an 80 foot tall pole would be set at 8 + 2 or 10 foot). Exceptions to this rule are provided for rock embeddment (less) and swamp/bog (deeper) embeddment.

Additionally, in the United States attachments like transformers are generally mandated to follow RUS bulletins exceptions are privately held utilities that do not and have not recieved Federal monies under the Rural Electrification Act. RUS bulletins place transformers below the energized conductors and above the return feed(sometimes called the ground or neutral).

ANSI standards are copyrighted but RUS bulletins set forth by the US Dept. of Agriculture are public domain and can be used and cited freely.

I can't help but note the United States has implemented a very different electric system than the rest of the world. It would be less confusing to the layman if when detailing a usage or standard that the country be noted, and where possible the governance, standard or regulatory body be reference to help reduce confusion as for example US, Asain, and UK utilities are built very differently (also work practices, and equipment). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.84.128.228 (talk) 04:35, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Internet cables
In the 'Communications cables' section, a sentence on internet cables was changed to:   "Broadband internet access is also commonly provided over telephone (DSL) and/or CATV cables."  Cables carrying internet links, separate from telephone and CATV cables, are one of the fastest growing uses of utility poles, particularly in urban areas, and are a third large category of lessees of pole space. That was the point of the original sentence. I think it should be changed back. -- Chetvorno TALK 15:41, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

"Refusal"?
The "history" section of this article says:
 * One of the early Bell System lines was the Washington DC-Norfolk line which was for the most part, square sawn tapered poles of yellow pine probably treated to refusal with creosote.
 * One of the early Bell System lines was the Washington DC-Norfolk line which was for the most part, square sawn tapered poles of yellow pine probably treated to refusal with creosote.

What is "refusal"? Wikipedia's article with that title says it's the failure of a horse to jump over a fence. I don't think that's what was meant here. Michael Hardy (talk) 20:18, 31 July 2009 (UTC) "Refusal" refers to the creosote treatment method, whereby the wood preservative is forced using the pressure (of a vacuum camber to remove air) into the wood pole until it 'refuses' to absorb more.Jamii Hamlin (talk) 08:04, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

"Anchor pylon": Article should cover different types of utility poles
After reading the Electricity pylon pages pertaining to the different types of pylons ( see this section), I noticed two things. Currently I'm thinking of just having this article cover different types of utility poles. Thoughts? &mdash;Onore Baka Sama(speak 14:49, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Utility poles are called "wood pylons". I... have no clue who exactly calls them wood pylons, or where the idea of "wood pylon" stops when it comes to utility poles, but... I guess it's there.  Needs a bit of elaboration, I'd suppose.
 * Most of the pylons in this section have the exact same functions as their power pole counterparts, but utility poles doesn't get any coverage. I believe that the Utility pole page should have its own "types of utility poles" section.  Pylons has about 20 page links, but Utility poles only mentions dead-end poles (anchor poles) in prose.  While I have been meaning to expand this to include other types of utility poles (there are riser poles, capacitor bank poles, air-break switch poles, etc.), I'm just thinking about the future of said article section.  (I guess that doing this would make my move a little pointless, then, huh?)

"spur lines
The article mentions three phase power may have a spur connected to one phase, this is true but there is no neutral. 166.137.10.66 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:21, 5 August 2010 (UTC).


 * I believe that is incorrect. All the single phase spur lines I've seen have, in addition to the phase wire, a neutral wire strung below it.  The primary windings of the distribution transformers are connected between the phase and neutral wires.  Without a neutral, there would be no return path for the current in the phase wire.  -- Chetvorno TALK 06:50, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Check out Single-wire earth return. Oen wire, and a whole lot of dirt, is all you need. --Wtshymanski (talk) 13:38, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Long spur lines in rural areas use SWER, but short spur lines use neutrals. User:166.137.10.66 said "...there is no neutral" -- Chetvorno TALK 21:34, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Depends a bit on local construction philosophy and also ground conditions - i.e. for SWER to be used the ground return must be effective - generally soil rather than rock. Also I imagine for a neutral wire return (rather than a single phase comprising 2 primary conductors) you would still require an isolating transformer at the commencement of the spur - which itself would require single phase (2 wire). Lumberjack Steve (talk) 03:22, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
 * No, isolating transformers are not needed. Spur lines are just branches off a three-phase grounded Y distribution line, comprising one phase wire and one neutral wire. They are very widely used in urban areas to supply power to side streets and have nothing to do with single-wire earth return. --ChetvornoTALK 19:36, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

deWP link
The deWP interwiki link given,Telephonmast  is one of the two pertinent pages. the other is Holzmast. I am not sure how to indicate it. It should be indicated, for they are both or them pretty good articles that complement our coverage.  DGG ( talk ) 02:36, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

A little bit specific
This article is far from being general, because it talks about something very very unusual where I live, for example (Italy) - without clarifying it. Utility poles in urban areas are virtually nonexistent in most of what I've seen of Europe, while they're commonplace in many downtown streets in North America (still talking about what I've directly seen).

I would suggest specifying power lines are mostly buried/attached to buildings (unfortunately) in Europe (at least Italy).

→ Nitya Dharma / ?  17:13, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Piracy
In some places, citizens make their own connections to utility cables, in order to be serviced faster than the utility can provide, or to obtain service without p-a-y-i-n-g. The poles look like birds nests, as citizens add their wire in a haphazzard manner. Could we have a picture of this? Tabletop (talk) 12:20, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Insulation of Wires ??
Are the wires on telegraph poles insulated from one another?

If the wires are space 150mm/6 inches apart (depending on voltage) there would be no need.

During storms uninsulated (bare) wires can touch, causing blackouts and lighting fires.

Aerial bundled cable prevent wires touching. Tabletop (talk) 06:20, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Suggest removing "hydro pole" (or simply moving it).
"Hydro pole" is said in Canada at times, but it is low-register and it marks someone as being rather provincial. Surely, the term should not be in the same list as those other more formal terms.

Perhaps it can be mentioned in a new paragraph as being a local colloquial variant, or something like that. 2A00:C1A0:489E:9600:293A:FF0A:89E:37CB (talk) 12:54, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
 * "Low register"?  Nonsense.  A perfectly common term, widely used in Ontario and Manitoba and other provinces where "Hydro" is often part of the electric utility's name. We're not so class-ridden as those in Europe; that's why Grandpa thought spending 6 weeks in steerage and 6 days on a train to go live in a soddy on the bald prairie was preferable to staying back in the old country. --Wtshymanski (talk) 18:34, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
 * "Low register" is not a question of class. For instance "dad" is low register; "father" is high register. People can use either term regardless of class depending on the context, but in an encyclopedia you would not see for instance, Prince Philip being referred to as Prince Charles' "dad", but rather his "father". My concern is just in keeping the tone. "Hydro" for that matter is very provincial, since in most countries that word suggests water and not electricity. Outside of Canada, a phrase like "The hydro went out during the thunderstorm last night", would not generally be understood. Not saying there is anything wrong with people in Canada using the word at all, just not in an international setting like Wikipedia. I appreciate the above comment, but it would be interesting to get an opinion from someone outside of Canada who does not have any emotional investment in the matter. (Certainly I am not going to take it upon myself to change the article without some more serious input first)2A00:C1A0:489E:9600:C8AA:7E25:273E:967B (talk) 22:29, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Also used in British Columbia. In Ontario alone, we have nearly half of the country’s population, so to suggest it is used "at times" is an understatement. Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:52, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
 * And it’s the only entry that has a reference. Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:53, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
 * The reference is to a Canadian dictionary (insert eye-rolling here).2A02:2454:9873:5900:FCBF:FAFE:2E8:2EBC (talk) 12:42, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
 * No amount of eye-rolling can make Canadian sources unreliable. SpinningSpark 16:15, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
 * And where does it say that widely-used regional "low register" names should not be included?  BTW, I am American and have no "emotional investment" (sic) in Canada, but I think your use of "provincial" is a little snobby, let's try to practice mutual respect.  --ChetvornoTALK 18:38, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

Ronalds' pole
I have removed the claim that Francis Ronalds was the first to use utility poles in 1816. His 1816 experiment did not use poles, it used two wooden frames with the iron wire strung back and forth. I wouldn't really consider those poles, and in any case it is an experiment in his garden, not any kind of utility delivery. As far as I know, Ronalds never used poles, his other experiments used wire in buried glass tubes. I've replaced it with William Fothergill Cooke who first used poles in 1843. That's definitely the first commercial usage. Spinning</b><b style="color:#4840A0">Spark</b> 14:26, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Myanmar pole
The recently added picture of a "pole" in Myanmar is not really a pole. It's a wonderful picture of a very dodgy structure, but it does not belong here. Perhaps at Transmission tower? <b style="background:#FAFAD2;color:#C08000">Spinning</b><b style="color:#4840A0">Spark</b> 00:33, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
 * A transmission tower is a tall structure, usually, a steel lattice tower, used to support an overhead power line. A utility pole is a column or post used to support overhead power lines and various other public utilities, such as electrical cable. Why doesn't the picture belong here? Etan J. Tal(talk) 10:55, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Because it's not a pole. It's a tower structure standing on at least seven supports.  A pole is a single, free-standing upright.  Just because it's wood and not steel, and carrying something other than power, doesn't suddenly make it a pole.  It's the structure that counts, and this one clearly has a (haphazard) lattice structure.  You might want to take a look at lattice tower which shows many uses besides electrical power. <b style="background:#FAFAD2;color:#C08000">Spinning</b><b style="color:#4840A0">Spark</b> 11:59, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the explanation. Picture moved as suggested... Etan J. Tal(talk) 13:08, 6 March 2019 (UTC)