Talk:Utoro, Uji/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: CurryTime7-24 (talk · contribs) 17:59, 2 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I will review this in the next couple of days. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 17:59, 2 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the review, really appreciated! I tend to move a bit quickly while editing so I end up making mistakes. You're right about the Hankoyreh source; that's egrigious. I hadn't noticed, I found it by quote searching terms about the schools in the district and zeroed in only on the paragraphs that I needed, definitely a mistake on my part. Will work to address the comments. toobigtokale (talk) 02:36, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Overall, it's a great article. Just some parts are silver waiting to become gold, so I'm confident this article will make it through to GA! —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 18:52, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry for essay, just wanted to clarify something: for this article I should have taken more time, as it's controversial, my fault. If I ever give off the impression of bias or not aligning with the international consensus, that hurts my credibility and I've made a mistake.
 * You rightfully point out that some of my mistakes may appear to have an anti-Japanese bias; you'll have to take my word that I don't have any, and that it's really the opposite and that I really like Japan and visit often. If anything, my writing might be biased anti-discrimination and anti-colonialism, and if I ever come off as cutting, it's not exclusive to Japan; I write critically and unflatteringly about how South Korea treats its minorities (example, example), and I'm clearly not anti-Korean.
 * I write a bit sloppy because I intentionally try to write quickly. This comes from my feeling that there's so much wrong or missing currently with Korean history articles on Wikipedia that even my hasty accuracy rate has been higher than the accuracy rate of many articles that organically developed over 15+ years. On a significant proportion of article I'm on, I'm often either the creator or the only native English speaker who cites things at all. I know writing quickly isn't the best practice, but I'm also a frequent return editor and try to be receptive towards feedback. I figure it's better to introduce a topic with 95% accuracy and let the mistakes be corrected over time, than it is for the topic to go virtually unknown and never discussed. Most sciences have had inaccurate predecessors that captured the interest of others that eventually corrected and improved on it. toobigtokale (talk) 10:37, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Notes on corrections:
 * Addressed 2c, I was missing a ref. The page of the book says: By 1986, agitation for a better water supply was growing intense. Nissan proposed a plan to settle both the land ownership and the water issue. The land would be sold to a company which Hirayama would set up to resell land to the residents in individual lots. Water and road construction costs would be apportioned according to the area of each lot. With Hirayama’s agreement to this scheme, Nissan advised Uji City in 1987 that they consented to the water supply, which went ahead, much to the delight of the residents who remained ignorant of the real reason for it.
 * For 3b, removed offenders. The atomic bombing and mimizuka bits were admittedly because I learned of them recently and found them really interesting and wanted to share. If they smell bias-y, then gone.
 * For 4, I swear all of that was unknown to me until now; if it wasn't included it's because I didn't know and didn't read close enough. Gimme a bit, I can add it in. No intention to portray all of Japan as complicit in the discrimination; I don't feel that way at all. The vast majority of Japanese people are perfectly fine towards Korean people nowadays, and in the videos I linked in external link most of the visitors and workers at Utoro's museum were ethnic Japanese.
 * For 7:
 * I'll look into the Nissan bit, sec.
 * In owners of the land and the various governments, this refers to Nissan and Western Japan Development, as the statement about illiteracy causing difficulties applies over the course of decades. For The new owners of Western Japan Development, this is because the owner went from one person (I think; Hirayama?) to multiple (I think?). From the Hicks ref:At the end of the year, however, they received unconditional eviction notices by post from the new board of Western Japan Development. It says board; not sure what % of the shares the board owned. I guess they were all technically owners of the company as shareholders are?
 * I fixed examples of prose issues but I'll give article a thorough scrub soon
 * Oh I didn't know this about Zainichi; ok I'll make consistent.
 * Will fix ref titles
 * I think the distinction might be between "bunkhouses" and "houses"? I saw a number of other sources about the bunkhouse removal in 2021; they apparently held a kind of ceremony for it, so it was some kind of milestone. Lemme verify
 * toobigtokale (talk) 11:11, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Please bear with me. I have to go out of town and won't be back until Monday (PDT), but will answer some of your points in the next day or two. So far, though, the article is on its way! —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 06:26, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your patience with me and your detailed reply! I understand where you're coming from as my feelings about this and related subjects are similar to yours. My remarks were too strong, but I'm glad we're generally on the same page. :) Will respond to some of your edits in a few. So far, so good! —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 02:29, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry it's taking me a bit too to edit; I have a bit of a short attention span. Tomorrow I'll get around to fixing everything toobigtokale (talk) 05:19, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok, made another pass. I worked on addressing the existing comments. I gave my best effort to fix the encyclopedic language. I also adjusted some wordings to align closer with sources. toobigtokale (talk) 05:19, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * @CurryTime7-24 Just in case you didn't see, I made updates to the article toobigtokale (talk) 10:19, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the late reply! I'll be back tomorrow so we can finally wrap this up. Thanks for waiting! —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 06:52, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the late reply! I'll be back tomorrow so we can finally wrap this up. Thanks for waiting! —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 06:52, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Spot checks
Great work improving the article! All my comments noted within the original review have been struck through since the issues raised therein have been remedied. Just some spot checks are needed now. May I please have the quoted source texts for the following (present non-English texts in the original instead of in translation)? A couple of unrelated remarks: you should archive all the web links because they will become broken eventually. Also, the first paragraph in "Anti-Korean sentiment" appears to cut-off in mid-sentence. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 23:04, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
 * FN 5 cites "The recruited Koreans were mainly tenant farmers from Gyeongsang Province".
 * FN 9 cites "Illiteracy also contributed to the prevalence of trust-based verbal contracts among residents during exchanges of goods and services".
 * FN 18 cites "The group alleged that Nissan Shatai had struck a secret deal with Hirayama, and demanded that Nissan Shatai purchase the land back from Western Japan Development. Nissan Shatai declined to".
 * FN 19 cites "It's shameful that the only way to get Japan to correct a wrong is to bring it to the outside world. As a Japanese citizen I am embarrassed".
 * FN 27 cites "In 2018, the villagers created another committee to campaign for the creation of a museum about the village's history".


 * Thanks! Quotes as per requests, my own translations for convenience, although encourage you to verify using dictionaries.
 * FN 5 (I use the Korean version, first button of three after intro): 경상도 출신을 중심으로, 원래는 농민 (소작농 다수)이었다. -> Mainly from Gyeongsang Province and originally farmers (majority tenant farmers).
 * FN 9: 우토로에서는 계약서이나 등기부등본과 같은 부동산 거래의 일반적인 원칙보다 서로에 대한 믿음을 우선시해 판잣집이나 새로 지은 주택을 구두 약정으로 사고파는 일도 흔했다고 한다. 우토로 조선인이 제대로 학교를 다니기 어려웠고 글을 모르는 이들도 있었던 것도 한 원인으로 보인다. -> It's said that in Utoro, it was common to trade property using verbal agreements based on trust, instead of contracts or formal documents. One reason for this was because it was difficult for Utoro's Koreans to attend school, which led to illiteracy.
 * FN 18: “The residents demanded that, since Nissan had intended to sell them the land, the company should buy it back and deal directly with them. A larger demonstration was later held at the Nissan Corporation’s head office in Tokyo. The corporation maintained, however, that it had no further responsibility for the land.
 * FN 19: Oops, I put the wrong FN for this. Fixed it. "It’s shameful that the only way to get Japan to correct a wrong is to bring it to the outside world,” said the Rev. Kana Shimasaki, associate pastor at a Japanese church in Honolulu, who is active in the petition campaign. “As a Japanese citizen I am embarrassed."
 * FN 27: Last month, we organized "Citizens For Utoro Historical Center," with the aim of establishing a space to remember their painful history.", article is from 2018.
 * Fixed cut-off sentence and I'll run the archiver. toobigtokale (talk) 07:06, 27 October 2023 (UTC)