Talk:VRML/Archives/2013

Abbreviations
VRM is different to VRML, as VRM is a kind of hardware-related stuff. So, why when you search "VRM" it goes straight to VRML? It is a bug!!

ChromEffects
I recall the history of Microsoft's Chrome (later ChromEffects) and VRML, and it appeared (and disappeared) earlier than the article indicates. I'll see if I can find one of the lists Cindy Ballreich and I made of alternative technologies. But the truth is, 3D formats have flickered into and out of existence like fireflies.

VRML stands out because (a) it was the first standard for 3D on the Web, (b) it was integrated into web browsers (some versions of Netscape Navigator included a built-in VRML browser until reaction against bloat stripped it and several other things out), and (c) it was a good target for other technologies to shoot at. The one adjective competitors threw at VRML more than any other was "cartoonish" because of its color and lighting model (essentially, Gouraud shading plus specular highlights and image textures). Does that mean the critics had cooler looking color and lighting themselves? Well, no, but they were going to have it Real Soon Now.

The problem, of course, is that VRML's rendering repertoire was right on the edge of what computers at the time could deliver. Some would argue that it was on the far side of that edge, and that slow rendering was part of the problem VRML had gaining wider acceptance. And too, anybody who hasn't created compelling scenes using VRML's color and lighting model simply isn't trying.

Note also that the ties between VRML 1.0 and [Open] Inventor were far closer than the article indicates. VRML 1 and Open Inventor were pretty much identical. And that almost certainly requires Rikk Carey's name in the entry.

Originators
I couldn't agree more. Typically open source languages are slowly strangled by being ignored by commercial interests. Both Carey and Pesce should have entries. Lentisco 04:40, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * So Frank Kappe for sure. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.10.157.96 (talk) 02:56, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Shockwave 3D and Atmosphere
Macromedia Shockwave 3D is still supported and in fact expanding. It is distributed as part of Macromedia Shockwave Player and also used in Macromedia Director presentations. Adobe Atmosphere technology is used in Adobe Acrobat 3D so it is not dead either.

Loss
Is it lossy?--//Mac Lover TalkC 23:31, 21 January 2007 (UTC)


 * This question doesn't really make a whole lot of sense in the way that VRML is traditionally used--to conceive of something and draw it, rather than to record the details of a 3d world. Community editor 19:51, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Flux Player 2.0 and Flux Studio 2.0 final released
Wikipedia article: Flux (software)

Look here: http://www.mediamachines.com/

Flux Player 2.0 and Flux Studio 2.0 are no longer beta and are now released in final version, that is freely downloadable for personal and academic use.

Tony Parisi is main developer of Labyrinth, WorldView and Flux. WorldView is by default available on Windows 2000 and Office 2000 CD's. That fact confirms Microsoft's promoting Tony Parisi's VRML/X3D line of software by default, making it factual standard for VRML/X3D, as Internet Explorer is factual standard for HTML. For reference look here: http://www.hoise.com/primeur/06/articles/monthly/AE-PR-10-06-9.html

Flux Studio imports and exports VRML and X3D successfully. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.19.52.107 (talk) 11:22, 5 March 2007 (UTC).


 * Flux site is now here: http://mediamachines.wordpress.com/flux-player-and-flux-studio/ and provides Flux 2.1 final, including all earlier versions. 91.94.97.216 (talk) 15:48, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Wallpaper / Wii
According to the article:
 * A VRML file can be used as computer wallpaper, utilizing a web browser. In some computers it can be managed using a special pad (i.e. a Wii)

Huh? - David McCabe 05:45, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't see this in the article. In any event, it doesn't make much sense.Community editor 19:54, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Wii, Nintendo or Playstation gamepads can't even be connected to PC. They has different connectors. Wikinger 10:19, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Just to note, the standard Wii controllers are wireless and can be used by any computer that has Bluetooth capabilities. For this reason, they've become quite popular, especially in VR research. Similarly, Xbox 360 controllers use standard USB connectors and are usable on any computer with USB ports. --Vrmlguy (talk) 12:55, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

VMRL 1.0 2.0 97
Something about the different versions of VRML would be useful —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.18.201.242 (talk) 16:38, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I rephrased a sentence to indicate this. --216.204.206.146 (talk) 16:59, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

VRML, open inventor SGI history
I recall years ago the co-founder of VRML writing an open letter to the community (and leaving it on his home page) that had to do with a falling out between SGI or a set of board of directors, and the syntax of VRML being similar to open inventor. I think this should be included in this article, perhaps under a history or origins of vrml section. It shouldn't be hard for someone to recall what I'm referring to; does anyone have some citations or sources on this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.175.118.95 (talk) 15:45, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Programming language?
I know it's generally considered a markup language, but isn't it a Synchronous programming language as well?--87.162.32.198 (talk) 02:07, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Floops?
I am surprised there's no mention of floops. It was an online animated VRML comic that SGI published for a little while - I guess it was back in the early '90s. I remember it being quite entertaining. "Floops" was the name of the main character and the strip itself. I imagine it was primarily done as a technical demonstration. Davidmaxwaterman (talk) 07:01, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Clay Shirkey Criticism
71.252.27.137 has multiple times deleted the entry (that I added) citing Clay Shirkey's criticism of VRML because it is ten years old. I strongly deny that the age of the criticism invalidates the critique.

I have, in general, been a fan of VRML, and have wondered since the beginning why it didn't catch on. Shirkey's comments helped me understand *why* (at least in part) it didn't do better.

I still hope that VRML or a descendent of VRML becomes popular.

I added Shirkey's critique to help give historical context, not because I outright hate VRML, and I very strongly disagree that critiques of VRML should be eliminated on sight from this page, as 71.252.27.137 has been doing.

Dougmerritt (talk) 04:50, 28 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I replaced old criticism to better alternative criticism to provide reliable criticism based on comparing of different technologies, but not technology and unrelated something else, such as evil games with criminal violence. 79.191.245.48 (talk) 18:46, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Example code
Example code external links must be kept because they serve to read code in Notepad. Both example links in VRML and X3D article are intended for this purpose. 79.191.238.141 (talk) 09:37, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Open Directory Project Links
The DMOZ search template, and by implication all DMOZ search links, is being considered for deletion because it violates WP:ELNO #9. Anyone interested in discussing the fate of Open Directory Project (DMOZ) search links is invited to join the discussion at Templates for deletion. Qazin (talk) 05:56, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

New features in VRML and X3D
Sorry I'm not English spoken, so there are many grammar errors, hope someone can correct my grammar errors. I post text below but been deleted. I don't know why we can't introduce features of VRML on wiki page like page Unity3D or other page. Not all people know how VRML improved in these years. Many people say it's from 15 year old but I think they just heard that from others, they don't keep up with VRML. They haven't using VRML maybe ten years.

In 2000's, many companys like Bitmanagement push virtual effect in VRML and X3D to the level of DirectX 9.0c. All main features like mortal game is complete. Include multi-pass render with low level setting for Z-buffer and BlendOp and AlphaOp and Stencil, and Multi-texture , and Shader with HLSL and GLSL support , and realtime Render To Texture and Multi Render Target (MRT) and PostProcessing. Many demos show VRML and X3D support lightmap, normalmap, SSAO, CSM and Realtime Environment Reflection and other virtual effects. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.118.200.2 (talk) 06:35, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I see that someone corrected your English and placed properly stylized equivalent of your section proposal both in VRML and X3D articles. 62.146.68.13 (talk) 19:33, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Edit request on 6 December 2011
Replace

The term VRML was coined by Dave Raggett in a paper submitted to the First World Wide Web Conference[3] in 1994, and first discussed at the WWW94 VRML BOF established by Tim Berners-Lee, where Mark Pesce presented the Labyrinth demo he developed with Tony Parisi[4] and Peter Kennard.[5]

with

The term VRML was coined by Dave Raggett in a paper submitted to the First World Wide Web Conference[3] in 1994, and first discussed at the WWW94 VRML BOF established by Tim Berners-Lee, where Mark Pesce presented the Labyrinth demo he developed with Tony Parisi[4] and Peter Kennard.[5] In October 1995 Silicon Graphics and TGS.com, led by Rikk Carey and Robert Weideman respectively, surprised the fledgling VRML discussion group with the introduction of a complete 3D for the Web implementation based upon SGI Open Inventor, an advanced 3D developer toolkit, essentially co-opting the VRML effort. Backed by 15 hardware and software leaders, including Apple, IBM, HP and Netscape, the SGI and TGS.com introduced the first 3D VRML browser, WebSpace Navigator at Internet World that same month, with SGI delivering the browser for their UNIX platform and TGS delivering versions for Windows, Sun, HP and IBM platforms. As a result VRML 1.0, and to a great extent VRML 2.0 were based on a subset of the Open Inventor 3D framework.

Mark Pesce and Tony Parisi quickly adapted to the new implementation, helping to press the new standard into the open community, while at the same time joining a cadre of others developing browsers and publishing books around the exciting new standard. In the end over 30 VRML browsers were developed, many using the Open Inventor developer toolkit. SGI and TGS.com remain, and while the excitement of VRML faded, 3D has entered the mainstream through movies from the likes of Pixar and a raft of computer games.

(Sources: http://www.allbusiness.com/technology/software-services-applications/7163706-1.html, http://iat.ubalt.edu/courses/old/pbds660_su97/browsers/vrml.html )

Whukadog (talk) 02:53, 6 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but the sources given really don't support all of that. I added the bit from the first link, about the plugin -- the second link seemed to be about what the browsers are like now, not what they were like back then or anything really about the history.   Banaticus (talk) 04:30, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

First one browser called such?
Guess it was EyeChem, 9 Mar 1995, republished in April 7, 1995? English related (some call British), although of multilingual origin possibly (the layout is not like this one fortunately). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.10.157.96 (talk) 03:25, 8 October 2012 (UTC)