Talk:Vaarsuvius

Gender debate
Article says: "Whenever the party lodge at an inn or other establishment, Vaarsuvius insists on sharing a room with Haley." It seems to me that the word "insist" is overly strong here. Vaarsuvius often shared a room with Haley but I cannot remember him ever insisting on doing so. Sensemaker 11:49, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think that it's completely inappropriate.  When the Order arrive at the Weary Travellers' Inn, when Miko is ordering rooms, V states "I room only with Miss Starshine".   While it's probably mainly to avoid sharing a room with Miko, it does show V's reluctance to share with anyone other than Haley.  --Tailkinker 03:22, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * It is still an overly strong statement to say "whenever" i.e. every time based on one occasion. -Sensemaker

I think it is rude of Mordecai to remove this section without even trying to discuss it. -Sensemaker

Anyone else think that constantly saying (s)he and himself/herself, etc, seems overly hard on the reader and the writer? Is there any way to simplify that? --Jeffday


 * As someone who just discovered OotS and read Wikipedia to learn more, I find the "he/she" and "(s)he" thing highly distracting. In most situations like this, a sex pronoun disclaimer thing is made and only one sex pronoun reference is used. It's very unprofessional looking, and not fitting for an encyclopedia format. Nargrakhan 15:58, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Add a disclaimer and stick with it. I'll note that pre-Third Edition, D&D rulebooks used male pronouns in a gender-neutral context. This is what I recommend. On the upside, at least nobody tried to use those godawful, made-up gender-neutral pronouns. It doesn't get any more unprofessional than splattering "zie" and "zir" all over a page. --Slander 19:20, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * And done! I didn't have time the other day. --Slander 16:35, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

It is obvious Vaarsuvius is a woman. Several times throughout the comics she is referenced as she, or as a woman. Find the strip when miko pays for the hotel, and the party has a debate on how many rooms. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.118.73.140 (talk) 09:17, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh dear (@ the previous commenter). Please visit the OOTS forums and dig up the V's Gender Debate topics. They repeat these arguments ad nauseum and the conclusion that you can only come to after reading them is that we don't know V's gender and it's pretty useless to debate it. By the way, I believe the evidence for male is a bit more convincing, although I prefer thinking of V as a female. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.150.229.240 (talk) 19:45, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

I found something
Em.. I'm doin' this thing for first time ever (editing something i wiki). I found something interesting about Vaarsuvius. In http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0135.html called "Potionomics", the women owner of the potion shop say's about Vaarsuvius "she". You can see it in the second from end window (sorry for my english ;p). MaC_KeE mackee@interia.pl —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.38.95.202 (talk) 20:54, 6 January 2007 (UTC). No


 * There are a number of occasions within the comic where V is referred to as being one gender or another - terms like "elf-dude" or "elf-chick" have shown up; different people who run into V seem to come to their own conclusion about his/her gender. The gender problem exists largely because there's no consensus on the matter.  --Tailkinker 03:16, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Categories
Is there a category of "fictional people of undisclosed gender"? I think that would be the most relevant category to place V in. -Sensemaker

Citations?
I do not see any citations for the part were it talks about V before (s)he joined the Order. Where does one perchance uppon this information?208.248.33.30 22:14, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
 * These references are found only in the book "On the origins of PC's" which is not replicated on the internet, so citations are difficult - as opposed to the online comic strips that are easily linked to. Timmccloud 02:10, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Level 13...
What..? Just because he casted several mass-enhancement spells doesn't make him level 13... Level 14 or above can still cast those right? Then... that makes no sense at all... I suggest taking that line off. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.53.39.53 (talk) 08:31, 20 March 2007 (UTC).


 * Mass enhacement spells are sixth level spells, V cast two of them, meaning that (s)he is at least 12th level (or 11th with an INT of 22), but (s)he also effected thirteen soldiers with Mass Enlarge Person, and that effects one person per caster level, meaning at least level thirteen. This means that V is at least 13th level: his/her level being higher is always a posibility, but 13th is the minimum level that (s)he can be. (Justyn 09:13, 24 March 2007 (UTC))


 * True, except that V assembled this group hirself to cast Mass spells on, and had specifically limited it to no more than 13 soldiers. Presumably V selected the group to have the maximum number of creatures V could affect with a single casting. I admit the reasoning involved was not completely clear in my original contribution. I've added the level estimate again with (hopefully) a better-worded reasoning.
 * If you still think it's not convincing, you can remove it again: I won't revert it :-) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.126.67.144 (talk) 01:16, 28 March 2007 (UTC).

Gay?
If Vaarsuvius has stereotypical elements of both men and women, another possibility that might be considered is that Vaarsuvius is gay. Many of the elements of arguments for Vaarsuvius being female also fall under the gay male stereotype: for example, dispensing fashion advice and being a fan of Judy Garland. Gay men typically have a close female confident, often known as a fag hag: this could be Haley's role. Also, this could be a good explanation for why Belkar kissed V in Azure City. I'm not sure if these arguments hold water, but they are worth considering, and possibly adding to the article. Singingwolfboy 21:17, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

They don't hold water. Conforming to certain gay stereotypes doesn't make V gay, especially when the Elven race as a whole conforms to those stereotypes. In addition, for Wikipedia to suggest such a thing would be a political nightmare. User:Jeffday

There's also the fact that V refer's to his/her partner as 'mate', implying that they can reproduce.Stu42 00:36, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Barred school may be incorrect
"In accordance with D&D rules, (s)he is specialized in the Evocation school of magic; one of his/her barred schools is Conjuration, and the other has never been directly mentioned, but by process of elimination must be Necromancy."

This says that one of V's barred schools is necromancy. However here It is shown that V has the spell vampric touch. It says here

". A wizard who has specialized in a school of spells gains a +2 bonus on the Spellcraft check if the new spell is from her specialty school. She cannot, however, learn any spells from her prohibited schools."

The way I interpret this is that because V is specialized in a school of magic that he must have barred two schools and from each school he can't write spells from that into his spell book. So either Vampric touch is not in his spell book which I think it is because at the time V was still flipping through the pages, or necromancy is not one of the barred classes.

I may be possible however that Frustration had already set in and V was just saying out spells, as I believe he did with the Wish Time stop and Meteor Swarm spells. Slinking ferret 02:00, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Are you sure he/she is an evoker in the first place? Just because s/he casts many fireballs doesn't mean (s)he specializes in it. Remember diviners have only one barred school. Also the rules for specialization explicity states a wizard cannot cast prohibited spells, even from scolls or wands. So he/she can prepare necromancy spells. --Pwsnafu 03:06, 12 July 2007 (UTC)


 * In On the Origin of PCs, V lists his/her class as "Wizard - Evoker" on his/her application to join the Order. Jefepato 03:08, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Alignment
Someone claimed that V was 'confirmed neutral' on the characters of OoTS page with no link to the conformation.


 * I'm guessing the lack of a link might have something to do with the fact that no such thing has been confirmed. Jefepato 03:08, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I saw an old thread on the forums where Rich seemed to imply that V is neutral. It's way back in the archives though... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.141.131.211 (talk) 17:03, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, I think I remember that thread. Someone made a topic and said that Rich told everyone that all group members except for Belkar were good. Rich posted a reply saying that was wrong, and that he said no such thing. Then someone actually found the quote to prove he said it. Then Rich apologized and I believe he said that if it hasn't been shown in the comic it's not set in stone. So... it's easy to come to the conclusion that the change he made was with V. After all, Belkar has been proven to be Evil and the others have been proven to be good so that just leaves V. I'll see if I can dig it up sometime. No guarantees though... Of course, it's not exactly conclusive proof. 24.150.236.199 (talk) 05:03, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Raven familiar?
Check this comic: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0440.html. The way I interpret it, it says that V's familiar is a chicken. Or is it possible to have more than one familiar? Dex Stewart (talk) 18:31, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It's in reference to the use of Chicken as a pejorative for "coward" - i.e. his raven is a coward. The literal translation loses the context if you don't take the slang use of chicken into context. See also Chicken (game) for more explanation on how the word chicken came to represent that of a coward. And to answer the specific question, no he only has one familiar, a raven - that can be described as "chicken". Timmccloud (talk) 20:26, 29 February 2008 (UTC) (Sigh... Jokes lose their humor content when explained...)