Talk:Vaccine

Definition of a vaccine
Article states "A vaccine is a biological preparation that provides active acquired immunity to a particular infectious or malignant disease." which is correct depending on the source. However many organisations and professionals use the CDC or Merriam-Webster definition, so a brief summary of their changes to the definition could be a good addition.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm https://www.iflscience.com/fact-check-why-did-the-cdc-change-its-definition-of-vaccination-62577 Sarka9000 (talk) 15:33, 14 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Both those organisations are from the one country. This is a global encyclopaedia. Why should they influence what we say? HiLo48 (talk) 23:16, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Because many countries and professionals in them also use those definitions, at least in the EU. So not only one country. This is not to say I agree with that definition, but that it is used a lot today. 91.156.95.220 (talk) 22:14, 15 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Here in Australia we don't use the CDC definitions for things, and we have our own dictionary. Anything we add would need to somehow demonstrate that the Americans definitions are used extensively outside that country. HiLo48 (talk) 22:57, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Here are some examples:
 * Macmillan dictionary has British definition "a substance put into the body, usually by injection, in order to provide protection against a disease".
 * https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/vaccine
 * Australian government defines vaccine as "A product often made from extracts of killed viruses or bacteria, or from live, weakened strains of viruses or bacteria. A vaccine can stimulate an immune response that protects against natural infection."
 * https://immunisationhandbook.health.gov.au/technical-terms
 * Up till 2021, Finnish THL defined it as "a preparation that stimulates the immune system to produce immunity to a specific infectious disease, providing protection against the disease." but now it is defined as "an effective and safe way to combat infectious diseases. A vaccine provides protection to the vaccinated person and also indirectly to other people by reducing the spread of pathogens in the population."
 * https://thl.fi/en/web/infectious-diseases-and-vaccinations/information-about-vaccinations/why-are-vaccinations-needed-
 * You can see how vaccines by todays definition do not provide immunity, but protection against infection. 91.156.95.220 (talk) 05:16, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Seeing as our article links to acquired immunity, which is still what the COVID vaccine provides, I see no reason to change our definition. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 05:27, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I think the differences in definition should be discussed. Even the experts seem to somewhat disagree about whether you should be talking about immunity or just protection. The traditional definition gives the impression of almost perfect resistance to disease, while the new one may include less potent inoculations.
 * Also this article isn't about Covid, it's about vaccines. 91.156.95.220 (talk) 06:37, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * In that case, I'm open to a suggestion for wording in the body text. But otherwise I'm not sure what we're arguing over. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 06:53, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Could something like this work:
 * Traditionally a vaccine has been defined in literature as a biological preparation that provides active acquired immunity to a particular infectious or malignant disease.[1] Since 2021, many organisations have adopted a wider definition of a vaccine. These newer definitions try to dispel the misconception that vaccines always give almost perfect resistance to disease replacing wording regarding immunity as producing some level of protection against a disease or infection. In some cases, vaccines are also said to give indirect protection to other people by reducing the spread of pathogens in the population. Both definitions are still in use depending on the country or organisation.
 * The safety and effectiveness of vaccines has been widely studied and verified. A vaccine typically contains an agent that resembles a disease-causing microorganism and is often made from weakened or killed forms of the microbe, its toxins, or one of its surface proteins. The agent stimulates the body's immune system to recognize the agent as a threat, destroy it, and to further recognize and destroy any of the microorganisms associated with that agent that it may encounter in the future. 91.156.95.220 (talk) 07:31, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * It's not accurate. Forty years ago, my toddler daughter caught measles after having been vaccinated against it as a baby. The doctor explained to us then that the vaccine did not provide total protection, but significantly reduced symptoms. The 2021 date is simply wrong. And I'm not convinced that it's accurate today to say "often made from weakened or killed forms of the microbe". My impression is that most are not. HiLo48 (talk) 09:27, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Maybe change that a bit then, "originally vaccines were made from weakened or killed forms of the microbe, but today other technologies are more common"?
 * The comment about the protection level is from that earlier source regarding the changes made to the definition. Of course there must have been some doctors and people who have known they are not 100%, but it is a common misunderstanding that vaccines were 100%. 91.156.95.220 (talk) 09:48, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * This is an article about vaccines, not common misunderstandings about vaccines. HiLo48 (talk) 22:52, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * So it is OK in a global encyclopaedia that we present a definition from Iowa, but not the definition used by CDC and a bunch of other organisations & countries and do not explain it in any way? 91.156.95.220 (talk) 04:09, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
 * No, it's not OK that we present a definition from Iowa. HiLo48 (talk) 10:30, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, so how about this:
 * Traditionally a vaccine has been defined in literature as a biological preparation that provides active acquired immunity to a particular infectious or malignant disease.[1] Since 2021, many organisations have adopted a wider definition of a vaccine. These newer definitions try to dispel the misconception that vaccines always give almost perfect resistance to disease by replacing wording regarding immunity as producing some level of protection against a disease or infection. In some cases, vaccines are also said to give indirect protection to other people by reducing the spread of pathogens in the population. Both definitions are still in use depending on the country or organisation.
 * The safety and effectiveness of vaccines has been widely studied and verified. A vaccine typically contains an agent that resembles a disease-causing microorganism and was originally made from weakened or killed forms of the microbe, its toxins, or one of its surface proteins but today other technologies are more common. The agent stimulates the body's immune system to recognize the agent as a threat, destroy it, and to further recognize and destroy any of the microorganisms associated with that agent that it may encounter in the future. 91.156.95.220 (talk) 11:10, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The issue is that, at least in the US, medical literature described the “action” of a vaccine as a solution introduced into the body and the body responding to “that solution.” It wasn’t until SARS-CoV-2 emerged that it changed. And millions received mRNA-based solutions before agencies under Health and Human Services changed the definition of vaccine/inoculation to include gene-based therapies.
 * I know this because I was a vocal opponent to mRNA shots being called a vaccine before the change, precisely because the body is not reacting to the solution but to what the cells at the injection site are instructed to produce. A new step had been introduced in the process! Until the body’s cells follow the mRNA instructions and begin making the virus spike protein, no antibodies are produced.
 * This is a vastly different sequence of events from traditional vaccines in which antibodies are produced against the contents of the shot. ChloeMS (talk) 22:20, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Your cells are part of your body. If they do something different as a result of the solution being administered, the definition is still accurate. Your activism doesn't change the definition. HiLo48 (talk) 00:00, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Overall this seems like a change in search of a reason. I think the current article wording is excellent, and doesn't need further complication. — Shibboleth ink  (♔ ♕) 16:51, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I think it's reason enough that it isn't accurate 91.156.95.220 (talk) 17:50, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Which part is not accurate? 22:25, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 July 2023
I want to modify the following sentence: "A vaccine typically contains an agent that resembles a disease-causing microorganism and is often made from weakened or killed forms of the microbe, its toxins, or one of its surface proteins."

I have three changes to this sentence:

1. change the word "an agent" to "a substance". 2. add phrase "or its components" after the word "microorganism" 3. include polysaccharide vaccines.

So the new sentence will read as "A vaccine typically contains a substance that resembles a disease-causing microorganism or its components and is often made from weakened or killed forms of the microbe, its toxins, one or more of its surface proteins or polysaccharides"

See this web page for importance of polysaccharide vaccines. https://www.immunize.org/askexperts/experts_pneumococcal_vaccines.asp Bondsubb (talk) 18:33, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: Please provide a better reliable source.  — Paper9oll  (🔔 • 📝)  07:11, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 July 2023 (2)
Add the following citation after the first sentence. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm Bondsubb (talk) 18:46, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅  — Paper9oll  (🔔 • 📝)  07:13, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

History section
Can the following (naturally without the nowiki formatting) be added to the top of the History section on this article?

It would look like this:

I think this would be useful to tie-in the Vaccine section into these related section in other pertinent articles, especially since we don't have a standalone article about the "History of Vaccines" nor "History of Vaccination". -- 97.124.47.226 (talk) 00:05, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ Lightoil (talk) 04:26, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 October 2023
Add the citation below to this section: Interactions When two or more vaccines are mixed in the same formulation, the two vaccines can interfere. This most frequently occurs with live attenuated vaccines, where one of the vaccine components is more robust than the others and suppresses the growth and immune response to the other components. Gizurarson S. Clinically relevant vaccine-vaccine interactions: a guide for practitioners. BioDrugs. 1998 Jun;9(6):443-53. doi: 10.2165/00063030-199809060-00002. PMID: 18020577. Karenjuliechristine (talk) 16:45, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

✅ PianoDan (talk) 21:03, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 February 2024
In the "History" section there's mention of waiting for a malaria vaccine, however, 2 have been authorized by the WHO:

https://ir.novavax.com/press-releases/R21-Matrix-M-TM-Malaria-Vaccine-with-Novavaxs-Adjuvant-Technology-Receives-WHO-Recommendation

https://www.gsk.com/en-gb/media/press-releases/who-grants-prequalification-to-gsk-s-mosquirix-the-first-and-only-approved-malaria-vaccine/ Roybucks (talk) 03:57, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Shadow311 (talk) 16:28, 5 February 2024 (UTC)