Talk:Vair

Proposed merge of Potent into Vair
This is probably a good idea. The "potent" artcile has little content on the one hand, and potent is a variant of vair on the other. They might be split again at some future date if a full article on potent can be written, but that doesn't look likely to happen anytime soon. --EncycloPetey 19:15, 25 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Particularly since potent is so rare. —Tamfang 07:48, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


 * At the very least, the majority of the article on "potent" is actually written about vair, and should be moved to the article on vair. 67.158.76.33 21:30, 8 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Agree. The above points are well made. Lusanaherandraton (talk) 10:38, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Could we have an image of what potent looks like though? 65.78.69.234 (talk) 06:27, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Good idea. I'll add that. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:56, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

ID?
"The species involved has never been accurately identified."

I doubt that. The German term is Feh, which refers to the Red Squirrel of Eurasia - specifically to the hypermelanistic "grey" or "black" morph. This is more common in mountaineous areas, which in the Middle Ages were sparsely settled, making Feh pelts rather rare in trade with demand much exceeding supply.

That this is the species in question can be deduced by simple exclusion. Medieval heralds from Europe had no reliable access to any kind of squirrel fur in colors coming even reasonably close - except Feh. The etymology ios another hint.

The painting to the right is very good match of the original "vair" colors - dark blue-grey and white. Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 21:12, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Then you should be able to provide citable references identifying the species? That would be great if you can provide such references.  A quote would be ideal, because many heraldic references are vague, and often deliberately so. --EncycloPetey (talk) 23:02, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I have a citable reference. I've added images and more info on vair in the medieval period. - PKM (talk) 17:27, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Grauwerk
For whatever it's worth, Grauwerk is not in Neubecker's Deutsch und französich für Heraldiker. I'll cut it. —Tamfang (talk) 07:18, 17 December 2010 (UTC)


 * On another hand, it is in Cassell's German-English dictionary, as "(archaic) calabar, grey (Siberian) squirrel skin." —Tamfang (talk) 07:22, 17 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Similarly, the Swedish term gråverk, while certainly an existing term, hardly seems relevant on this page—especially as it currently states that it is ‘analogous’. With the German bit taken out, the text leaves the reader wondering how on earth a Swedish word literally meaning ‘greywork’ can possibly be analogous to a Mediaeval French word of Latin origin meaning ‘variegated’. I’m cutting the Swedish bit, too. Kokoshneta (talk) 20:51, 26 January 2013 (UTC)