Talk:Valen (Babylon 5)

Untitled
changed "Minbari not born of Minbari" to "Minbari not born of Minbar" as it is seen my me Minbari = race, Minbar = planet/people's/culture's origin. In the same idea that We use Earth to discribe our planet and Terra/Terrans/Humans to discribe out culture —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mementh (talk • contribs) 22:16, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Disagree. See Talk:Minbari for more full discussion.  &mdash;Aladdin Sane (talk) 01:37, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Um, the photo makes the spoiler warning pretty much useless.

Yeah, really.

Merge to Sinclair
The idea of avoiding spoilers is well established here. I don't see what would be gained by merging these articles - it's hardly a performance issue.

Besides, even before we found out who Valen really was (which took quite a while), Valen and Sinclair were both notable characters in the B5 universe. And there's a clear one-way demarcation point between the two of them - it's not just a case of an alias or an alter-ego that can be changed at will. Quack 688 14:19, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I've removed the merge note. It'd be impossible to avoid spoiling readers after a merge, and I see we don't have a photo. --Kizor 12:44, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Correction - now we do, but it's hidden. Thank you, autofellatio article, for making me aware of the possibility. --Kizor 12:49, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

On spoilers and formatting
I am very much concerned, in this article, that the focus on spoilers is precluding the possibility of a well-organized article. The amount of information that is revealed prior to the big reveal that Sinclair is Valen is very little, and is carefully constructed to give an impartial view of the situation. It's just not possible to write a good lead for this article without giving away the spoiler, and the current article is frankly terrible because of it. The overriding priority for this article has become protecting the spoiler, not providing a useful resource on the show, the character, how the character was used in the show, or anything else. It would be better to have no article whatsoever than this article, because this article is not even trying to be an encyclopedia article. Phil Sandifer 02:13, 15 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd need to dig through the show again, but it should be possible to split out the spoiler and drop it under a warning. Unfortunatly, independant of the Sinclair bit, Valen's moved to being a very marginal character who has about the same direct effect on the story as Jesus. If there's a splash page for religous figures in B5, that'd be the proper place for Valen independant of the big reveal. Something quick and dirty like
 * "Valen is a major Mimbari religous figure, who led a campain against the shadows durring a previous shadow war aproximatly 1000 years before the events of B5. He was responsible for organizing the Mimbari culture into it's form at the time of the second shadow war (2260) including the formation of the Grey Council, the Rangers, and the current caste system. Mnay Mimbari are decended from him, though few are aware of this fact."
 * Anyone just simply initaly glancing at it would get enough relivant data, the spoiler isn't there Sinclair can still talk about becoming valen, because anyone who gets into his role in the story should expect spoilers. (StarkeRealm 19:03, 30 May 2007 (UTC))


 * I see two issues behind Phil's pressure here and at Talk:Jeffrey Sinclair to incorporate this material into the latter article and/or delete this one. One is the question of having a fictional-character article for Valen at all; the second is whether it can be done meaningfully and still avoid spoiling the surprise twist. I'd suggest that as long as Wikipedia is supporting creative-work mythology articles, one on Valen is not unreasonable. Valen is much more prominent a presence in B5 mythology than other non-regular characters who have articles; his on-screen appearance is almost irrelevant (except for that revealing scene). The question here would be whether we have enough sourced material from the mythology to maintain a separate article instead of possibly merging it with Minbari, the primary context of that mythology. And if we focus on his impact on Minbari society, we can easily avoid giving away the spoiler until a final paragraph, which perhaps shouldn't even have a heading to focus the attention so much. Given the expectation that Wikipedia is not here to reveal surprise endings, but to inform about the subject, it seems to me that the article should be more focused on Valen's story and not its fan-satisfying "conclusion". ~ Jeff Q (talk) 21:17, 30 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Such an article would almost certainly violate our policies on writing about fictional subjects as it would focus primarily on in-universe material. Phil Sandifer 21:20, 30 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmm. I was going to object that WP:WAF violation would depend on how it's written, which is true as far as writing style goes. But I was forgetting about the problems of copyrights and derivative works. I'd have to concede that these character and other mythology articles may be an unreasonable use of fictional works, as opposed to the kind of mythology articles like Sampo that discuss more established (and non-copyrighted) legends. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 21:29, 30 May 2007 (UTC)


 * In reviewing the DVDs again, it occurs to me that there are other characters from the same era in B5 history, G'Quan at least. So, a single entry about Valen and the prior shadow war's major events and figures might be apropriate. Such as him leading the last surviving Narn telepaths to force the shadows from the Narn Homeworld. (StarkeRealm 18:04, 5 June 2007 (UTC)) EDIT: Some day I'm going to remember to log in before posting and signing.

Fair use rationale for Image:B5 valen.jpg
Image:B5 valen.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 06:25, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Move to Valen (character)
Wow, this is the worst of Wikipedia. Interesting question: "Valen", what is the main article at this rather common name? The member of the Norwegian parliament? American TV-producer? Taiwanese pop-star? No, it's some character only the biggest nerds have ever heard of, in a TV-series only a fraction of any population ever knew existed! In mainspace, with a hatnote- hidden away under a ton of templates! - pointing to one (to be kind) of the actually encyclopedia-worthy persons having Valen as their name. Congrats.

Remedy: move this article to Valen(character), and keep Valen as a disambig article, where the actually existing people are listed first. Way down in the article, insert "fictional characters", with a link to the B5 character.

And before you all explode over my rudness: I'm a big fan of Babylon 5 ;-) Greswik (talk) 12:29, 27 June 2010 (UTC)