Talk:Valiano Natali

Strengthening the references
Thanks Eagleash, for your kind comments on the draft page on tenor Valiano Natali. A cursory search on google books returns dozens of mentions of the singer, so I am hopeful that it will be possible to establish notability. Some of these are books about Callas and at least one is a doctoral thesis. As soon as time permits I will strengthen the References section. However, in order to be sure to comply with the requirements, I would need to understand better what is meant by 'routine listings'. Are a mention of someone's work (credit) by a reputable source or the credits on the back of a published work of intellect (e.g. authoring a book or singing in a record) routine listings? If you could you clarify the concept, it would help me address it appropriately.

I was also wondering if Wikipedia rules on notability account for the fact that it is obviously more difficult to support notability of someone who was active 50/60 years ago than it is for someone who lives in the internet age. While even a third-rate so-called celebrity can get hundreds of mentions for a fleeting moment of notoriety these days, the (paper) sources of the 1960s, even if they existed, are unlikely to have been digitised and to be available anymore. This may result in a strong bias towards most recent biographies. I am well aware that this is not the place to discuss the issue, I but am just wondering if you know if this is being addressed, or at least discussed, elsewhere.

Best,

L0g1c4p3 (talk) 13:46, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

Sources strengthened
I have added two book references mentioning the singer. Having a second look at WP:NMUSIC I believe that Natali meets several of the criteria already, in particular:

1) Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself

2) Has had a single or album on any country's national music chart. (in this case, it was of course Operatic music charts)

4) Has received non-trivial coverage in independent reliable sources of an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country.

5) Has released two or more albums on a major record label or on one of the more important indie labels (i.e., an independent label with a history of more than a few years, and with a roster of performers, many of whom are independently notable). [Natali was featured in some of the best selling Opera albums of all time, published by all the major music labels of the genre.]

6 Is an ensemble that contains two or more independently notable musicians, or is a musician who has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles. This should be adapted appropriately for musical genre; for example, having performed two lead roles at major opera houses. (emphasis mine)

10. Has been placed in rotation nationally by a major radio or music television network. [Radios broadcasting Opera have certainly played some of Valiani's recordings consistently as they are considered milestones in the genre]

As many of these things have happened in the 50s and 60s, it is not easy to find primary sources for it, for example a source mentions that Valiani won a competition but no details are available. But I think the sources that are there should be satisfying. — Preceding unsigned comment added by L0g1c4p3 (talk • contribs) 3 November 2019 14:15 (UTC)
 * Yes it can be less easy to find sources for older topics, but sources do not have to be on line. If a person is notable in the Wikipedia sense there will be information available... if it is not, the page could very likely fail. There are statements in the page which are unreferenced and sources are not placed inline at the point in the text to which they refer. If you wish to use a reference more than once, you give it a name at the first instance ; thus . Then to use it at later points you need only enter  . Correctly positioned refs are always an improvement. Routine listings which are usually unacceptable include MusicBrainz, Discogs.com, Spotify, IMDb, Amazon iTunes etc. and other social media like Facebook or YouTube. Allmusic can be acceptable if it publishes a review by a staff member. Routine listings do not assist much with notability but really only confirm existence. I note that some additional sources have been included. The page is awaiting review. Having spent time working on the page I will not review it further myself but leave for another AFC participant for their input. Cheers. Eagleash (talk) 15:13, 3 November 2019 (UTC)