Talk:Valley girl/Archive 1

Let's rewrite this page!
I don't have the patience to do it, but this page needs a true and complete overhaul. I'm trying to fix it, but there's just so damn much to change. I can't keep this up. Someone needs to blank this page and start from the top. I've done all I can do here. ( User talk:Lunisneko ) 03:38, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Famous Valley girls
I don't see anything in that article about famous valley girls. Paris Hilton isn't even it that artilce.--Scott3 02:59, 29 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Paris Hilton is a New Yorker. Valley girls are from California. Being blonde, ditzy, rich and an airhead doesn't necessarily qualify one as a valley. The fictional character Elle Woods from the movie Legally Blonde is more valley than Paris will ever be.

Super late edit: But Poland from Axis Powers Hetalia is in this list and he's 1. Not a girl, and 2. Not even from California. So if users are okay with this maybe we should Paris too.

Should X-men sidekick Jubilation Lee ("Jubilee") be included among famous valley girls? A) Is she a valley girl? (Monet calls her one in Generation X) and B) is she famous?

81.172.172.226 19:01, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

UK Usage
Just to say that speaking as a UK resident I have never heard this alleged usage from the article:
 * In the United Kingdom the term Valley girl is used to refer to a stereotype of a resident of the South Wales Valleys. The stereotype is one of a sexually promiscuous teenager or woman of less than average intelligence.
 * The stereotype is similar to Essex Girl or Sloane Ranger.

In the UK a 'Valley Girl' has the same meaning as in America, i.e. an affected juvenile Californian female with a peculiar intonation in her voice. And -- like hello -- Californian 'Valspeak' has influenced English English. Colin4C 20:08, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm well aware of the Valley Girls useage in the UK, they have been recognised as having a distinct character for well over a century, although I would dispute the "of less than average intelligence" tag on the sterotype. Also, they are nothing at all like the Sloane Rangers or Essex Girls, unless you think that simply being a group of women is enough similarity.82.3.210.156 15:32, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

(Oops, originally put this in the wrong bit:) On the Sloane Rangers track - I hadn't ever heard that term before (despite being brought up and living in the UK) but after looking it up I can't say that the term would be comparable to Valley Girl. From what I understand, Sloane Ranger stereotypes actually seem to generally be intelligent and use their brains in some way, whereas this article implies that Valley Girl stereotypes don't. Most definitely though it seems the term Essex Girl is our equivalent. Musical lottie (talk) 00:08, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree entirely with Musical lottie's assertion that Sloane Rangers are dissimilar to Valley Girls. I'll remove that part. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.155.151.233 (talk) 13:54, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Cleanup
The tone of this article is atrocious. It reads like it was written by a "valley girl" in places. I made one correction, but when I skimmed other parts of the article, I just gave up because of how many more problems I found. -128.101.53.240 06:14, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

From age 7-11, from 1980 to 1984, I lived in Woodland Hills, CA, aka the Heart of the Valley. Citations are available on many questions in this article by simple watching movies. The movie Valley Girl and Sixteen Candles use a lot of the lingo. I know what lingo is legit and which are not, and have tried to modify the list. It is a widespread common misconception, for example, that Bart Simpson coined "Don't Have a Cow." ... just like he coined "Asta la vista" right? (Terminator 2). In Sixteen Candles the "hunk" boyfriend tries to calmdown his snotty rich girlfriend by saying "Don't Have a Cow." I'd think this would be reference enough to prove Bart Simpson had nothing to do with it. I also tried to cite the claim that Moonunit basically inspired all the lyrics to Frank Zappa's Valley Girl. Frank Zappa admits this to be true in every interview conducted around the time. Moonunit is also the lead vocal, that you could get from album liner notes. 75.166.32.46 18:18, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Um, it's Moon Unit Zappa, not Moonunit. 68.36.214.143 (talk) 17:54, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Sociolect
I'd say valspeak a sociolect, not a dialect, and changed it accordingly... Loial 03:29, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Changed Demographics
I added how the term "Valley Girl" in southern California doesn't mean the same thing anymore as it was back in the 1980's and before, when most valley residents were white. Due to the large-scale influx of illegal immigrants from Mexico since the 1980's, valley households are now overwhelmingly Chicano, usually freshly-arrived, and have little English-language skills. Property values have since gone down, and what were once the valley's prime real estate neighborhoods (North Hollywood, Van Nuys, Reseda, Canoga Park, Sun Valley, Panorama City, North Hills, I could go on...) are now blighted, gang-infested, and horribly deteriorated. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Redcomusic (talk • contribs) 03:04, 21 April 2007 (UTC).


 * That's bull! I live in Southern California in the L.A. area and the Valley is the same as its ever been. Illegal immigrants cannot afford the $800,000 homes in San Fernando, Van Nuys, North Hollywood and Sherman Oaks. They live in El Monte, Pomona, Upland, Downtown L.A. and the far eastern parts of Santa Monica. Oh, and I don't know if you've been reading the news lately. Property values have been the highest they've ever been in California. Even an unfurnished hole in the ground in Compton fetches as easy $250,000.76.171.53.59


 * You obviously haven't been in Van Nuys recently. Van Nuys is quite ghetto today, as are North Hills, Panorama City, San Fernando, etc. Much of North Hollywood has also deteriorated greatly, although not to the same extent as Van Nuys which has reached South Central type levels of violence, poverty, and gang activity. I agree that Sherman Oaks and Studio City have not changed much. Redcomusic's description of Van Nuys is pretty accurate except that I would not blame what happened there solely on immigration ; the closing of factories in the early 1990s had a great deal to do with the area's decline as well. Also, Van Nuys does retain a white population, albeit just as underclass as any of the nonwhites living there, much of it consisting of ex-cons and drug addicts. 71.106.210.63 (talk) 09:57, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

As a lifelong Valley resident (and having attended Taft High during the mid-90s, in one of the most Valley-Girl typical neighborhoods), I disagree that changing demographics undermine this phenomenon. If anything, Valley Girl-ism lives on, but yes, the members are now ethnically diverse. Many valley girls now are hispanic, black, Asian (as there were even during the hey-day), and Persian, but all continue to carry on the principles mentioned in this wiki entry -- materialism, upwards voice inflection, valley accent, snarky cosmopolitan sarcasm. The basic principles still live on though, especially as key neighborhoods in the Valley have become even more affluent -- Anywhere south of Ventura and East of Sherman Oaks, and Calabasas. I now frequently hear the Valley accent on calls I make to fellow coworkers all over the nation, many of whom grew up in areas like West Virginia or NY, where they had their own distinct local accent that was subsumed by Valley Girl culture. It speaks to the power of mass media that this culture and accent was spread so thoroughly by those who aspired to the upper middle class or cosmopolitan nouveau rich. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.132.174.144 (talk) 21:35, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Unreferenced
This is a nice article, but it's almost entirely unverifiable because there are no sources. Can anybody pitch in and find some more references? ·:· Will Beback ·:· 22:09, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Preventing the Val?
What on earth is this section heading supposed to mean? If it's any of vandalism, nonsense or an in-joke then it needs to be removed and replaced with something more appropriate. 86.136.251.18 15:12, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * That's exactly what ah did. 68.36.214.143 (talk) 17:56, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Films
Should the films Clueless and on a smaller scale Buffy the Vampire Slayer be added to the Films section? Cher (Alicia Silverstone) is the quintessential Valley Girl in the film. Buffy is somewhat one too, they both all the lingo and typically 'do' what valley girls do? 60.234.156.224 02:44, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Agreed! If Clueless doesn't show Valley Girls in pop culture, I don't know what does!98.18.0.179 (talk) 16:48, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

This article is so opinion based it cant be proper encyclopdeic material. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.8.6.21 (talk) 00:14, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

there was a book prompted by the song and the movie
THE OFFICIAL SILICON VALLEY GUY HANDBOOK ISBN: 0-380-84392-7

http://web.ncf.ca/chrisw/svgfront.jpg http://web.ncf.ca/chrisw/svgback.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.226.190.148 (talk) 20:12, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Question
Are valley girls commonly stereotyped as being racist? The Baby Got Back monologue would seem to imply that they are (due to the fact that the two valley girls in that song make racist comments), however, I'm not sure if this was an isolated phenomenon or if racism is indeed a trait commonly ascribed to the valley girl subculture. Stonemason89 (talk) 22:32, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Factual Accuracy
Does anyone know what the specific complaints in regards to factual accuracy are so that they can be looked at? Caduon (talk) 07:49, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

November 5
You idiots, Orange County isn't in the Valley. All of the mentions of Orange County shows featuring people from the Valley is insanely wrong. In fact Orange County is almost 2 hours south of the Valley. Garsh! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.179.104.201 (talk) 21:54, 5 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Geographical location is less of a determinant now than how one "represents." However, verifiability with reliable sources trumps both, so I concur with your deletion on that basis. However the 80's called, and they want their Morton Downey Jr. insults back. We highly value civility in Wikipedia discussions and edit summaries. --Lexein (talk) 22:14, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Narcissism
there is clearly a link between narcissism and valley girls the fact that this article doesnt explicitly mention narcissism is besides the point. There is plenty of scope for work to be done to develop the article to explain the connection.--Penbat (talk) 20:55, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
 * That isn't a justification. You need to use judgment in assessing googles returns. That the article "doesnt explictly mention narcissism" isn't beside the point. You can't just throw everything into the grab bag of "narcissism" without a little more understanding of the term. You are using only the end result of pop culture terms today, and misunderstand the use by Freud and others. You are degrading the meaning in this encyclopedia. This is an encyclopedia, you know, and has a responsiblility to be accurate and not just a bin for info you haven't bothered to assess but added the template to the article anyway.  Farrajak (talk) 21:04, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Started earlier
Just FYI - the whole Valley Girl phenomenon started with teens who would hang out at Sherman Oaks Fashion Square (now Westfield Fashion Square ) in the early 1970s. This was also the beginning of the "mall rats" phenomenon. (The Sherman Oaks Galleria depitced in the 1980s movie was actually the hangout of the next generation of Valley Girls.) This information is directly from the women involved. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.209.221.203 (talk) 21:20, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Teens hanging out at malls predates the "early 1970s". As for the "Valley girl" phenomenon, reliable sources date it to the early 1980s. If you can find verifiable info that it was earlier, we can include it. - Sum mer PhD  (talk) 00:15, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

off topic chat
Brian O' Driscoll - D4? I think not.

Brian O' Driscoll is far too sexy to be a D4, just google him. -Hsgbswgong

Actually started in late 1960's

The whole Valley girl phenomenon started in the late 1960s, including hanging out in the mall and Valspeak.

This according to a very close friend who was in the original group of girls that started the whole thing.

Here is an interesting twist. Frank Zappa was quite familiar with the whole phenomenon long before his 1982 song "Valley Girls", because the original Valley girls - in addition to hanging out at the mall, also used to hang out at various Laurel Canyon homes of rock stars, including Zappa. That was in the early 1970's. 162.205.217.211 (talk) 02:57, 5 February 2019 (UTC)


 * This article talk page is for discussing improvements to the article, not for general discussion of the article's topic. - Sum mer PhD v2.0 22:15, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

Discussion
If this is our only article on Valley speak, it needs to have some mention of vocal raising or whatever that is called. I thought we had another article on this but can't seem to find one. Rmhermen 19:09 9 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Two points. First off, the comparison to the Sloane Rangers - if we're going to compare the "valley girl" stereotype to a British stereotype, wouldn't "Essex Girl" be more appropriate? Only the southern part of the San Fernando Valley is upscale (the northern part is as poverty stricken as almost anywhere in Los Angeles). Secondly, Moon Zappa's inflections were inspired by Laraine Newman on Saturday Night Live, not mentioned in the article.

The valley girls wiki has a very general introduction which can easily be elaborated on with further research into the topic. In its current state it is a very cursory look at what a valley girl is, and has no in depth information. The "in popular culture" sub heading only has a few cultural references, in the pursuit of completeness there are many other cultural references which can be added, for instance on Saturday Night Live there is a running skit called "The Californians", which satirises the valley girls stereotype, this is just one of many which could be added. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Factdetective777 (talk • contribs) 09:32, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Merger proposal
I propose that the linguistic concept of Valleyspeak be merged to Valley girl. The latter page, which has very little content, subsumes the content of Valleyspeak. On this page that is nine sentences long in total, five of them mention the linguistic concept with phrases like speaking typical "Valley Girl" phrases, a significant increase in the "Valspeak" slang usage, and wildly exaggerated Valley accents. Although Valley girls are a cultural stereotype defined by being upper-middle-class, airheaded, young, female, etc. none of those conditions is sufficient for the term to be applied to that same basic demographic in Ohio or Texas; the obvious necessary feature here is the linguistic one. Others can feel free to do further research to see if and how the two concepts really diverge in any ways significant enough for Wikipedia's purposes; however, they seem to me obviously inextricable, plus this page's small size lends itself to a fairly straightforward merger. Wolfdog (talk) 03:32, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Perhaps this isn't as controversial as I expected. Being bold and merging now. Wolfdog (talk) 01:15, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Capitalization
The "Valley" of "valley girl" is sometimes capitalized in this article and sometimes uncapitalized. Should it not be consistent one way or another? — Preceding unsigned comment added by YellowBlack (talk • contribs) 00:18, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Valley boy version of this stereotype, no article?
There is definitely a valley male version of this stereotype in which phrases and behavior differ from the valley female version of the stereotype. There have been plenty of examples in the media from Cody from Step by Step to WWE's Matt Riddle gimmick. A very deep voice is used, a laid back manner, "bro" is said a lot with heavy laugh, "Far out" is used a lot and other phrases, a backwards hand gesture is used, etc. Surfing is a focus. It differs from all the "like" "OMG" phrases of the valley girl. Can we have an article on the male version of this stereotype please? JudgeJudyCourthouse25 (talk) 06:28, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * "Can we have an article on the male version of this stereotype please?" If you can find relevant sources. I have never heard of a "valley boy". Dimadick (talk) 10:21, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Dimadick, the following source here reads: "'Gnarly'—Exclamation used by Valley Boys of the 1980s to describe something especially cool". Also, I should note that the term "valley boy" is added on Wikipedia's dictionary website as shown here: valley boy. I also found this source as shown here: . But yea, valley boys use terms like "Gnarly," or "tubular," or "wicked." JudgeJudyCourthouse25 (talk) 11:02, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Notable omissions
Wouldn’t at least a mention of Pauly Shore and Sean Penn be in order here? 72.177.119.69 (talk) 07:09, 31 December 2022 (UTC)