Talk:Valon Behrami

POB
Kosova. Kosova has gained independence and now he can officaily be called Kosova. But living as a swiss citizen.
 * Kosova is independent!!!! Your finger is on the pulse when it comes to latest news, I still don't know whether you refer to Kosova, Estonia or Kosova Hora in the Czech Republic!! User:Evlekis (Евлекис) 12:54, 2 April 2010 (UTC) Blocked sock:Evlekis.

nationality at birth
His nationality at birth is Albanian and he is born in Titova Mitrovica, SFR Yugoslavia. For anyone who objects it, please discuss here. Thank you.  kedadi al  13:47, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Surely that makes his ethnicity Albanian not his nationality. If he was born in Yugoslavia that makes him Yugoslavian by birth. Think you can't just disregard the fact that when he was born he was in Yugoslavia! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.154.246.146 (talk) 14:16, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * He was an Albanian, born in Yugoslavia. The source that I've used in the article and that you removed it, states that his second nationality is Albanian.  kedadi al  14:31, 28 October 2009 (UTC)


 * And no, I'm not hiding the fact that he was born in Yugoslavia, you can see it in the birthplace. For more info about the Yugoslavs as a nation, check out the Yugoslavs page.  kedadi al  14:35, 28 October 2009 (UTC)


 * And no. He was born in Yugoslavia to ethnic Albanians. You seem to want to deny that Yugoslavia ever existed. Isn't that some sort of national cleansing? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.44.129.249 (talk) 16:21, 28 October 2009 (UTC)


 * He was an Albanian, born in Yugoslavia, to Albanian parents. See the Yugoslavs page for more info on who they really were (some still refer to themselves as Yugoslavs). footballdatabase.com clearly states that he is an Albanian and not a Yugoslav. And don't worry about the ethnic cleansing, as Yugoslavia is present at the birthplace ;).  kedadi al  22:18, 28 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry Kedadi, but you seem to not understand fully what in English means "Albanian born". That means that he was born in Albania (and that´s not thru, since he was born in city:Kosovska Mitrovica, province:SAP Kosovo, Republic:SR Serbia, country: SFR Yugoslavia. He is Albanian (althou, I´m not sure if he´s Albania Albanian or Kosovo Albanian) by ethnic nationality. The sentence you wrote is wrong. Please, in future, try to make exact statements. Thanks. FkpCascais (talk) 00:21, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
 * And I see you "forgeting" an important fact: Kosovo, has not equal statute as other ex-Yugoslavia Republics. Kosovo was not "Yugoslav", but Serbian province. FkpCascais (talk) 00:27, 29 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Hey, hi there FkpCascais, I think we need to clarify some thing here as I believe we're not in the same page. The issue is his nationality at birth and not his birthplace. It's absolutely true that he was born in Titova Mitrovica, SFR Yugoslavia on 1985, no way in Albania. "Albanian-born" doesn't mean "born in Albania" but it means "born as an Albanian". What I'm trying to express is that "he is an Albanian, born in Yugoslavia". So, the issue is simple: is he an Albanian (Kosovo Albanian though) or a Yugoslav? What do you think? Thank you for your cooperation.  kedadi al  13:23, 29 October 2009 (UTC)


 * For all you folk for whom English is not their first language....


 * born  /bɔrn/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [bawrn]
 * –adjective 1. brought forth by birth.
 * 2. possessing from birth the quality, circumstances, or character stated: a born musician; a born fool.
 * 3. native to the locale stated; immigrated to the present place from the locale stated: a German-born scientist; a Chicago-born New Yorker. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.168.105 (talk) 14:11, 29 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Let's take a real-life example, from Dominic Purcell article: "is an English-born Australian actor".  kedadi al  14:39, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

I agree with everything you're saying Kedadi. Unfortunately in English, to state that one is Dutch-born would mean that he or she was born in the Netherlands regardless of ethnicity. It would not imply that one who identifies as Dutch was born in Belgium. But it also causes other logistical problems stating that he is Yugoslav-born. My recommendation is to remove this part entirely: Behrami is a footballer etc. After all, it is not 100% necessary to introduce an individual as being Albanian with such usage; his birth details are already given in parentheses following the headword/title and again in the infobox. Evlekis (talk) 20:29, 29 October 2009 (UTC) Blocked sock:Evlekis.


 * ✅, let's remove that part. What do others think?  kedadi al  23:39, 29 October 2009 (UTC)


 * That was exactly what I was saying. He can´t be Albanian-born, but Yugoslavia, born. So, everybody agree now the way I left it? : Yugoslavia born, Kosovar-Albanian, Swiss international football player... More acurate than this is impossible... And about my English, I did used to go to an English school... It´s not perfect but in 90% of time I know what am I saying. And when I don´t, I dont mind asking. Regards to everybody. FkpCascais (talk) 21:29, 30 October 2009 (UTC)


 * well actually kosovska mitroviska(his birthplace) is not in serbia. kosovska mitroviska is in the newest country in the world - kosova. and even if you that does count if mitroviska how was in that time, i wasn't yugoslavia, it was called serbia at the time behrami was born. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.187.103.2 (talk) 12:14, 31 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually, in 1985, no; see Serbia

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.44.180.167 (talk) 12:22, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

nationality at birth [reloaded]
Is he Kosovan? Can't see any citation for this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.43.175.129 (talk) 14:11, 3 November 2009 (UTC)


 * This is remarkable. First we have a discussion based on how to present his birth information and before you know it, a new dispute emerges questioning his ethnic background. If a person by the name of Valon Behrami who is born in Kosovo is anything other than Albanian, the only point of interest will be how does this Indian/Sri Lanakan/Bolivian gentelman (or whatever it is suspected he is if not Albanian) come to have such a name. Evlekis (talk) 14:36, 3 November 2009 (UTC) Blocked sock:Evlekis.


 * Did you write this blog yourself or are you his mom?


 * Now there is a source to back it up. You don't have to be cruel with other editors. Assume good faith.  kedadi al  17:26, 3 November 2009 (UTC)


 * No reference given for his ethnicity only his place of birth. All people called Behrami are Kosovan sounds like WP:OR to me.

Well where does it say that Hashim Thaçi or Gentiana Ismaili are Albanian? Does any IP who disputes this suggest what these people are if not Albanian? This is the most ridiculous episode I have ever encountered. Behrami is ethnic Albanian, end of. No source needed. Evlekis (talk) 03:53, 4 November 2009 (UTC) Blocked sock:Evlekis.


 * I agree, but in this case was User:Hubschrauber, who has been quite neutral in this nationality discussions, wich seems to want that statement covered by an source. There is a question, is Valon Behrami proud of being Kosovar Albanian (wich he obviously is) or he want´s to distance himself, having a "new" life as 100% Swiss. FkpCascais (talk) 04:30, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * There was a case about Siniša Mihajlović, and his Gypsie ethnicity... FkpCascais (talk) 04:30, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Is this source enough? Even if it isn't it gives an interesting insight into the family background of Behrami. His father is Ragip, his mother is Halime and he has a sister called Valentina. His parents both lost their jobs so the Behramis moved to Switzerland. This quote could be used: "As a child, running was Valon's favourite pastime – he just never got tired. Even now, he can hardly sit still for a second. He always needs a ball at his feet" Spiderone  08:40, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi Spiderone. You don´t need to tell this to us. We know he is Kosovo Albanian, I only don´t know why some IP´s and Hubschrauber insist in removing it. Have you seen the last version that I did? FkpCascais (talk) 09:29, 4 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I know Hubschrauber is a positive and reputable editor. The struggle in which I was involved yesterday up the point of 3R was against an IP that was undoing Hubschraubers edits. I didn't see exactly what the stimulus here was but seeing the work of an established user wiped out by an IP was provocative. The edits seemed to focus on source placement but I was concentrating also on the summary by another user who felt that Behrami's ethnicity should have been included. Indeed for people in this region of the world, ethnicity is second nature and an individual is incomplete if this feat is discluded. Normally, statements on ethnic group sit unchalleneged indefinitely. The only time it is called into the spotlight is when other sources emerge which may dispute ones ethnicity by claiming it to be another. This has not happened. It would be nice to say that he is simply Kosovan in the same way that one may be Chinese if from China when in reality he may be from the majority Han or from the other 55 ethnicities. The problem with Kosovo is that its status is the topic of dispute across Wikipedia and is also highly sensitive. It must be known of an individual: Kosovan? Would that be Albanian? Serb? Turkish? Roma? Bosniak? Gorani? or others of lower figures? Evlekis (talk) 20:01, 4 November 2009 (UTC) Blocked sock:Evlekis.

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