Talk:Vangelis/Archive 1

Untitled
How can Vangelis have written the score to Blade Runner (1982) in 1994? David.Monniaux 22:20, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

I have a feeling the soundtrack wasn't released until 1994. --Gene_poole 23:07, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

Yup. The score was released on vinyl and cassette in '82, but not on cd until '94. Also, the '94 release was more complete, with some parts that had been removed in the initial release included for the re-release. --Benn 06:20, 18 November 2005

Reading music?
Something does not add up. You cannot study classical music at college level without knowing how to read music. Either he majored in something else and maybe took a music appreciation class on the side, or he is better at musical notation than he pretends to be. On a different subject, Keyboard Magazine ran a cover story interview with him just after he won the Academy Award for the "Chariots of Fire" score. He specifically mentioned them rehearsing "Sound chaser" (which later got recorded on the Relayer album with Patrick Moraz on keys).

Discography
Has anyone considered updating the discography, perhaps by looking at the Elsewhere site? I happen to know the creator personally and I doubt he'd object.

It's just that I think there's quite a few things missing. I have a bootleg of Blade Runner (that came out in 1993, and lo and behold, less than a year later the official version comes out), plus a bootleg of The Bounty. Also, I used to have a 3" single of Missing (which I gave away).

Because otherwise, my Vangelis collection would be remarkably complete, which is something I doubt... SeverityOne 21:43, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Blade Runner Sample
In 1996 the British ambient dance duo Future Sound of London sampled the track 'Rachel's Song' from the Blade Runner soundtrack for use on their My Kingdom EP.

What's special about this particular sample? Blade Runner has been sampled so many times it's practically a cliche. ~ 24.168.57.47 04:12, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

The Bounty
Important to mention the score for this film - it's some of Vangelis' best music, but I've moved it so that it doesn't come in the middle of the section on Chariots of Fire.

Is this artist similar to Vangelis?
Should Ariaphonics (no WP article) be included in the "Similar artists" section? (Someone added it to the article and I removed it for discussion here. My answer follows but additional input is welcome/required to settle the matter.)


 * Oppose - a) non-notable artist (band?); b) self-described as "space-rock-opera". Vangelis is not "rock-opera" (in the classical opera sense), maybe "space" (and even then, it's contentious, as Vangelis' music is nothing like Hearts of Space, for instance). --maf 19:22, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

TOC and image placement
tried to position the image on the left and focrce a TOC on the right. While there are certainly precedents, I dispute that this article needs such a deviation from general formatting. There are articles with a much longer TOCs that do not rely on _TOCRIGHT_ (e.g. The Holocaust). What is your logic, Mafmafmaf, and can we reach consensus here? JFW | T@lk  21:26, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't really care about the TOC placement. I see and apply what I like in other articles, instead of innovating. That's why I invoked the precedents. Anyway, having returned to the article a month later, I see the TOC is still on the right, and I still like its placement, visible but not cutting into the flow of reading. But, as I started saying, I don't really care in the sense that if it is reverted, I won't fight it. --maf 23:28, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Direct technique
"Vangelis uses a technique of recording all tracks simultaneously on tape, using a device especially manufactured for him which he calls the "Direct box"."

This is misleading. While he may have used this technique in 1982, I find it hard to believe he is still using the same (presumably analog) method these days. Does anyone have additional information regarding this? If not, I don't feel that a recording technique he used a quarter of a century ago is notable enough to be in the article unless someone can establish the relevance and provide context. CarlosCoppola 14:38, 11 November 2006 (UTC)


 * As far as I'm aware the device in question didn't appear until at least 1987 or 88, and was a digital - not analogue - piece of equipment. I believe the album "Direct" was the first to use it. It should certainly remain in the article, as it was considered fairly ground-breaking at the time, if I recall correctly. Obviously if he's not still using it, the article needs to reflect that too. --Gene_poole 12:03, 12 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Right. I assumed that because the source of the Direct box section was an interview from 1982, the device would have to be as old. Turns out the whole article makes no mention of a "Direct box", just a "multi-trackmachine". I wonder, was he referring to the Direct box at all? I feel that until someone has actual solid information on this, the section should go as it is only serves to confuse at the moment, especially as it is not even sourced. I agree thought that if someone can provide context and sourced information on when the technique was used and some basic information about it (e.g. analog or digital, who manufactured it, etc), it is definitely worth a mention in the article. CarlosCoppola 11:53, 19 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The Vangelis "gurus" could certainly elaborate more on the Direct device, but where are they? What little I can contribute from memory is that the Direct thingy was developed on V.'s specifications and has always been kept secret (but not hidden). Even after its creator/builder talked about it, and even after we saw it in action, we still don't know exactly the extent of what it does. We even don't know if the custom-built boxes full of knobs last seen on the Mythodea video, on top of the synths, may still be called the "Direct box", a successor of the Direct box or even who built them or, even worse, what their purpose was during the concert. --maf 23:35, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Removed section: Vangelis Sings!
I just removed the following subsection from the article. The examples of Vangelis singing do not show enough relevancy to characterize Vangelis as either a singer or even as someone who uses his own vocals regularly. This is more like just a curiosity (but not terribly original) than something core to Vangelis. --maf 18:32, 19 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree with the removal. Vocal contributions are discussed on some of the album-specific pages. Some aren't, which is why I included a "citations" marker when I tidied-up 84.217.109.107's entry.
 *  Gardener of Geda  22:11, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Vangelis Sings!
Vangelis contributes his own voice to some of his albums ....
 * Earth - backing vocals.
 * Spiral - lead vocals on "Ballad" and "Devish D".
 * See You Later - backing vocals on title track and supposed lead vocal in the middle-section of "Not a bit, all of it".
 * Blade Runner - lead vocal harmonies on "Damask Rose".
 * Page of Life - backing vocals on end section of "Change we must". (On the 1998 re-issue of the 1991 Jon & Vangelis album).

Pop culture
I believe a segment of "Chung Kuo" from China was used in a Mercury Cougar commercial in the US. I'm also thinking this was 1976 or so, but China wasn't released until 1979. This was thirty years ago, but I had never heard music like that in the commercial, and I recognized it a few years later when I discovered Vangelis. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 12:03, 28 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Someone should add that Vangelis recorded the lovely "La Petite Fille De La Mer" for the Stranger than Fiction soundtrack. The song plays during the climax of the film, and is wonderful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.59.20.216  (talk • contribs)


 * He didn't. He recorded it for his album L'Apocalypse des Animaux over 30 years ago. They just used it on the soundtrack.  Gardener of Geda  | Message Me.... 18:09, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I remember the car commerical being around 81-82? It would show the car and then a cougar or lynx or something crossing stage in front of the car...and I remember the song being The Long March not Chung Kuo...unless there were different versions of the commerical or a different commercial altogether.(MrSleestak)

Singing in English
In the 1960s biographical section, there was a change from singing in English "not usual .. for the time" to "usual for the time". Which is it? We need references, please. --Otheus 08:00, 13 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The "Elsewhere" Vangelis site has a good section on the Forminx, which states that most of their songs were either Vangelis compositions or written by the band collectively, with just a few by outside contributors. Most significantly it says that the lyrics were sung in English, which "certainly helped set them apart from the rest of the Greek artists". This confirms that singing in English was not usual for the time. I have put it back into the article. (Tony the Pixel, 1 Apr 2007)

vangelisworld.com
The article states that the "official" site has been abandoned since "at least 1998". I can personally state that it has been abandoned since at least 1996, as I can remember it going live during the run-up to the release of either Voices (1995) or Oceanic (1996). (I'm fairly sure the latter, actually.) Unfortunately, I have no external reference to back this up. --JohannVisagie 20:05, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * According to the Wayback Machine, the site went online with a second page announcing the release of Oceanic, and then it was changed somewhere between Feb 08, 1999 and Oct 21, 1999 to remove the link for that page. I'll change the article. --maf 23:42, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I should've thought of that - thanks! (Glad to see my memory is still somewhat functional.) --JohannVisagie 10:24, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

IPA transcription
The IPA transacription of V's name has an extra 'o' in front of his surname. I now nothing about how to pronounce Greek, but this strikes me as a bit odd. Should it be removed? Jalwikip 08:32, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Furthermore, there are no stress indicators to help with pronunciation. Personally I have heard his name pronounced two different ways; /væŋ gɛl' ɪs/ or /væn jɛl' ɪs/ neither of which match the transcriptions shown here.  Are we sure we have transcribed them correctly? LogicalOctopus (talk) 04:42, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Start from the Greek pronunciation: with a hard g (as in Gulf), accent in the middle syllable, AND NO N (ie vaGHElis). Then modify it to accomodate other languages. The IPA transcription in the article merely follows the MOST USUAL pronunciations in English, with the added N and both the hard and the soft G, although there is a consensus that the most usual pronunciation is English is with the hard G. In the Blade Runner DVD commentaries, ONLY Ridley Scott says it with a soft G (as in Juliet). The pronunciation with the soft G, by the way, is about the only way you'll hear it among French or Portuguese speakers. --maf (talk-cont) 11:54, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

After my first comment I have since heard an interview with Jon Anderson (who ought to now him pretty well) who pronounces his name as /væ gɛl' ɪs/ with the æ nasalized (thus producing a faint 'n' sound). LogicalOctopus (talk) 08:23, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Some music is scary
Some of the music I have heard from vangelis is really scary. Some like the "End titles from Bladerunner". When the music begins, its goes to a creeping approach of music. 1492 also makes the scary music with the woodened jingles and with some of the keyboards and other instruments- Creation Christian

Fair use rationale for Image:1492 Still 04 B.jpg
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BetacommandBot 06:31, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 16:03, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Lack of sources; POV
The article clearly violates Wiki rules about writing biographies from a neutral and objective point of view, rather than a fan's POV, e.g. "...considered pivotal in the development of progressive rock and concept albums"; "...to the dismay of much of the Greek populace, the job was given to someone else"; the Mouratidis encomium quote; etc. The article also violates the rule of verifiability since it does not contain almost any references; in fact, the only references are a Vangelis interview and the artist's various writings archived online. The Gnome 20:04, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * This article has improved! Kudos to everyone involved in the work.-The Gnome (talk) 11:23, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Vangelis Song?
Is the song in this video |here by Vangelis? If so, what is the name of the song? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.239.110.74 (talk) 14:57, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * This is not the place to ask, but I'll answer anyway: no, not even remotely like Vangelis' sound and style. --maf (talk-cont) 00:36, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

That's from David Arkenstone for sure, from the album 'The Spirit of Olympia' I think. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.144.147.75 (talk) 08:24, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Olympics
I really feel that the section about Vangelis and the Athens 2004 Olympics should be omitted. It is inappropriate and not suitable for an encyclopedia entry.Amadeus webern (talk) 18:46, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Greetings Amadeus webern, sorry to disagree, but if it is adequately sourced and referenced, respects the "Living persons" criteria, etc. it should stay. Regards, --Technopat (talk) 20:52, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Greetings Technopat, but this is supposed to be a serious encyclopedia entry not an article written by Vangelis' fan club. Vangelis' resentment about not getting the job is irrelevant and shouldn't be included in a serious encyclopedia article. Amadeus webern (talk) 13:37, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

To do list
1) Cite every paragraph as closely as possible.✅

2) Clean up; remove POV etc. etc.✅

3) Find something on personal life; missus, kids etc.✅

4) Clean up recent work section; it's too "none flow-ey" right now.✅ Utan Vax (talk) 23:50, 20 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Finding more images. Utan Vax (talk) 14:15, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't think that stuff was all done, unless it got un-done along the way. Gingermint (talk) 21:44, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Marriage status
The article currently states 'Vangelis also revealed that he had never been married, and, instead, was involved in his third long-term relationship at the time'. Yet the 2005 Telegraph inteview cited only supports the second clause with 'He says he is currently on his third long-term relationship and that marriage never works for anyone: "If anything, you should have a certificate at the end if you have a good life together."'(page2) .

Logically marriage is a long-term relationship, but not all long-term relationships are necessarily marriages, so 'he had never been married' seems a false deduced statement. Instead he would seem to have had at least 2 marriages:
 * Vangelis - The Child Of Aphrodite Explodes! "Oor", February 25, 1976 in the preamble mentions 'Vangelis’ wife of French origin'
 * Interview by A.L. from Backstage magazine, 1982 'On "La Fete Sauvage" we hear for the first time the golden voice of Vana Veroutis. Not only does she sing on Vangelis records, she is also his wife, or was, because Vangelis claims he now doesn't even know were she is.' - and as Vana Veroutis is Greek, so therefore this would have been a separete second marriage.

Given how little seems published due to his aversion to giving interviews, are these robust enough sources (under WP:BIO) to amend the entry ? At the very least, we should remove the statement that he has never married, as the Telegraph reference would not seem to support that. David Ruben Talk 01:04, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed, I'll take a look into it and adapt it with the website you provided. I think I've used "elsew" a few times in the article so I'll have to find them again and "refname" them. Utan Vax (talk) 10:57, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * ✅ - I have reworded and then added another paragraph mentioning your sources, tell me what you think. Also, how do you think the article looks now as a whole? Utan Vax (talk) 11:19, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Concerning Veronique, some albums from the early 1980s credit a certain "Veronique Skawinska" with cover art and photography. While she hardly has a French surname, this may be the same person. JFW | T@lk  11:30, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Found this little gem (Spelling errors left in): "On the other hand, Mark Griffins book "The Unknown Man" makes no notice of this [marriage to Vana Veroutis] at all, but mentiones instead that Vangelis lived with Veronique Skawinska, whos responsible for most photographs used in the artwork of many of Vangelis his albums from the late seventies and early eighties..." - So, with conflicting reports, what's true? Utan Vax (talk) 11:53, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * With regard to Vana's marriage, one has to be careful citing sources from magazines, they are not always correct. It is a shame there is so much such devotion on his personal life when the artist made it clear he has no interest in promoting his personal live. This explains the lack of information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zyser (talk • contribs) 11:59, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Per NPOV and TRUTH, I think we should cite all the reports, however conflicting, and move on. Well done on finding that. JFW | T@lk  12:07, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * You were right about Veronique being the Veronique Stawinska and I've changed the article to reflect that. I'll take a look at that source up there again and see if I can add anymore. Thanks guys! Utan Vax (talk) 12:09, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, tried to tweak as ref to Vana indicates previously married (as for not knowing her locatiion, seems she was probably in Wales or Birmingham at the time of that interview, having previously been in the US - see http://www.vanaverouti.gr/biography.htm). David Ruben Talk 00:45, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

GA review pre-notes
I'd love to do the GA review but my experience with music articles is fairly limited. I'll still give a couple of notes before they come up in the review.
 * The lead should be at least twice as long (maybe even three times) and should summarize the whole article. For example, it should mention his involvement with Aphrodite's Child and collaboration with other artists. Articles at WP:FA sometimes give good ideas for a good lead.


 * Replace cquote with per WP:MOSQUOTE.


 * The references should list the publisher and the correct name of the article, plus the publication date where available. cite web may help. Fansites rarely pass as reliable sources, although I know that elsew is one of the best sources available.

– sgeureka t•c 22:26, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Why does the Discography section just list his studio albums? He is as much known, probably even better known, for his soundtracks.

Composer project review
Getting in ahead of the GA review...

I've reviewed this article as part of the Composers project review of its B-class articles. I've put my detailed review on the comments page. This review is focused more on content analysis than the GA review is likely to be; see my review. This article is, in my opinion, not far (content-wise), from an A rating. Feel free to comment here or on my talk page (and good luck with the GA review).  Magic ♪piano 15:28, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Comment
I think this article is coming along well. Anyone willing to work with me so we can potentially get this to GA status eventually?  Enigma  message 02:39, 1 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Please don't try and steal my brainchild. Scarian  Call me Pat!  14:14, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Surname: Papathanas(s)iou
In Greek, there is only one sigma when he's written in his native language. So why do we put two 'ss' into his surname at all? Mind you, the translation of his 2002 Greek magazine interview always writes him with one 's'. I think that's correct? -andy 92.230.23.225 (talk) 14:55, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * One 's' can be pronounced either as 's' or as 'z'. Double-s clarifies the pronounciation in English.-The Gnome (talk) 11:20, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Certainly the G is a soft one. I have had conversations with the composer. Gingermint (talk) 21:45, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Painting
About the following remark:

"As a hobby, Vangelis enjoys painting; his first art exhibition toured South America in 2005."

I was living in Valencia (Spain) in 2002 and 2003; at some point during those years, I recall I saw an art exhibition by Vangelis. If someone knows better, maybe it's a point that could be improved. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.97.35.176 (talk) 02:07, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Records sold?
Anybody know how many records did Vangelis sold in his career? This could be a interesting trivia item. 66.254.34.96 (talk) 07:04, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Text of Individual Albums Needs Immediate Attention
The various Vangelis and Jon & Vangelis releases are listed, but the content is lacking and/or contain no references or citations. Someone familiar with this artist needs to champion this area, in my opinion, to improve and expand the information. I had submitted a new page of Page of Life, for example, but some uninformed editor immediately deleted it without careful reading. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.20.212.218 (talk) 22:34, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Page of Life now has an article. 28bytes (talk) 20:54, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Fixed a little grammar in the first paragraph
Fixed incorrect "80´s" to formal "1980s" inline with Wikipedia's standards. (I forgot to log in, sorry 'bout that) ZellDenver (talk) 03:08, 21 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks :) And don't worry about not signing in to edit! It's not required ;) Scarian  Call me Pat!  09:33, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Need a citation for birth date
The birth date in the article was added many years ago with no citation. There's no certainty that it's correct. Need a verifiable citation from a reliable source. Softlavender (talk) 11:15, 22 April 2011 (UTC)


 * This is widely known and indeed easy to find in other sources. Information that is verifiable doesn't always need tagging with citation needed. JFW &#124; T@lk  18:33, 22 April 2011 (UTC)


 * OK, thanks, I verified this on GoogleBooks. I wasn't aware that this had been published (forgot to check before posting that); in fact I figured it might be speculation or guessing since he rarely if ever gives interviews. Softlavender (talk) 02:41, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Vangelis Soundtracks
I've never done anything on Widipedia before, so forgive me if I'm not doing this properly, but after reading the article, I noticed that it failed to mention the Roman Polanski film "Bitter Moon" (1992) for which Vangelis is also credited for the music. I've seen the film and Vangelis appears in the opening credits for the music. He's also noted on IMDB for this film. I think this should be added to the article somewhere in the film works category. Also, I think the music from this film has never been released for sale (I could be wrong, but I haven't seen it available anywhere).

Atreyu Svoren 74.216.54.87 (talk) 19:34, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Need to add soundtrack from movie "The Bounty" (1984) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.62.76.188 (talk) 01:23, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Sex Power
I noticed the article for the album Sex Power doesn't exist, although I could access it before. Now the links for that article redirect to the article about Vangelis. Why was this done? Phazd (talk) 12:39, 4 June 2013 (UTC)