Talk:Vangjel Meksi

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I've corrected the names of Loukas and Thanasis Vagias, the former has already an article in wikipedia.Alexikoua (talk) 21:48, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
 * You mean the latter, because the former doesn't have an article, or does he? Per Monti his name is Lluka Vaja, and for that matter Thanas Vaja also is the correct form, but I changed only Lluka, because Thanasis has that name in his own article. --SulmuesLet's talk 22:16, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Who's Monti? As per wp:nc their names are spelled Thanasis and Loukas, per Greek spelling. You seem to pretend that you ignore wp:nc. Since Thanasis was Greek it would be difficult for his brother to be part of another nationality... As I see these brothers have also a different family name (Vagias vs Vaya []). Alexikoua (talk) 22:29, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

You bet, you made Vagias a Greek relying on sources that call the Albanian Christians "Greeks". The Italian Monti calls them Albanians in 1941. What can we do now? Find me a source for Loukas Vagias and we're fine with both --SulmuesLet's talk 22:39, 20 June 2010 (UTC) I'll tell you what: I think Metaxa was the only Greek of the four of them. Vaja, Meksi and Saqeralliu were all three Albanians. I think that the best thing to do is to leave it Thanas Vaja with the redirect to Thanasis Vagias.--SulmuesLet's talk 22:44, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Can you please give the the Monti's url? This sounds interesting.Alexikoua (talk) 22:45, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Monti is off-line unfortunately, but I provided an inline citation from Lloshi. --SulmuesLet's talk 23:00, 20 June 2010 (UTC)


 * It's reasonable for an Albanian- speaking source to give the Albanian translation of their names. Since this is the english wikipedia as per wp:nc the Vagias need to be mention according to Greek spelling. About Loukas I've noticed (among others):[][][]. I see your arguments are really weak on this issue (bet that Mondi's claim that they were Albanians is also offline).Alexikoua (talk) 23:18, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Who is Mondi? I said Monti is offline and he is Italian. Try to take bets before I say something, don't bet after I have already said that Monti is offline. Lloshi is inline for you. Check him out. And no in Albanian language we would transliterate Lukas Vajas, or Thanasis Vajas, problem is they are Albanians, so we don't need to transliterate, Lloshi is no exception. If you feel strongly about Lluka Vaja, write an article about him. I already made the article on one of the four doctors of Ali Pasha to look decent, you have another three to mess around with. --SulmuesLet's talk 01:16, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

"Albanians" on fascist sources.
I see that some editors baptize Meksi and others as "Albanians" invoking as a source an italian author G.M.Monti and a work of his in 1941.

May we remind readers and editors few historical facts: Albania was a protectorate of Italy since 1920's (i.e. mostly under fascist regime) and occupied by fascist Italy in April 1939. Albania was Italia's springboard for expansion in the Balkans. I copy this from WP article Albania under Italy:

''Albania was important culturally and historically to the nationalist aims of the Italian Fascists, as the territory of Albania had long been part of the Roman Empire ... The Italian Fascist regime legitimized its claim to Albania through studies proclaiming the racial affinity of Albanians and Italians, ... Italy also attempted to legitimize and win public support for its rule over Albania by supporting Albanian irredentism, directed against the predominantly Albanian-populated Kosovo in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia and Epirus in Greece, particularly the border area of Chameria, inhabited by the Cham Albanian minority. ".''

The above paragraph is quite mild and carefull in its words, obeying the WP neutrality principle, which unfortunately sometimes is interpreted by some editors as equality between agressors and victims.

By 1941, when this Monti's work was published, Italy was already at war with Greece, having attacked in Oct. 1940 assisted by Albanian corps. Italian authors of that time are not necessarily fascists themselfs, but it is obvious that they had two options: Either to "cooperate" or face the dangers of being "enemies of the State". All publications were directed and censhored by fascist authorities, and especially in the heat of the war they had to serve Italy's interests. Gennaro Monti has published several works under that regime, and indeed some for the "Istituto Nazionale di Cultura Fascista" (see http://www.patzinakia.com/ONLINEBOOKS/Vladimir-MODENA/13-Bibliografie.pdf). Obviously he was trusted by the regime and his works on Albania had to promote the policy described above. As far as Meksi is concerned, it was most easy to call him "albanian" with no damage of objectivity, as he was born in Albanian territory.

Fortunately for the truth, Evangellos Mexi's life proves that he was a genuine Greek patriot. He worked for the Greek Revolution and the Greek State (not the Albanian). As a member of the Filiki Eteria had given the oath which included the term:

"I vow that I will accept any other brother in the same manner that I was accepted in the Eteria, ... untill I recognize that he is a true Greek, a fervent defender of Homeland ..."

In Greek language: "Ορκίζομαι ότι καθώς εγώ παρεδέχθην εις Εταιρείαν, να δέχομαι παρομοίως άλλον αδελφόν, ... εωσού τον γνωρίσω Έλληνα αληθή, θερμόν υπερασπιστήν της πατρίδος, ....". Full oath in Gr. here: http://www.elesme.gr/elesmegr/periodika/t34/t34_04.htm

I propose that characterization of Meksi as "albanian" has to be deleted as well as Monti as reference. If not, the "Good Article" will be proposed for reassessment.--Euzen (talk) 08:45, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
 * What you are doing (as usual) is called WP:OR. Wiki is not interested in your OR, when you will publish a book on that, maybe. Take your trolls elsewhere Euzen. Aigest (talk) 14:43, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
 * P.S. Before other trolls begin commenting the other wikipedians can read here a short summary of his biography (including his origin and ethnicity) Aigest (talk) 14:49, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Euzen stick to the sources and read wp:or.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 17:07, 26 October 2010 (UTC)