Talk:Vardar

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hello. my name is petar vajevic and i live in republic of macedonia. altough i like wikipedia i sow some mistakes that you wrote. first, the only highway where you can see the river vardar and drive near to the river are in republic of macedonia all the way to the greek border. you cannot see the river vardar when you drive by car in greece, on the highways that you mentioned.

second, most of the river vardar is in the republic of macedonia and only small part is in greece. to addiotion to this is that Thessaloniki is a part of northern greece not a central greece. and in that area vardar flows into aegean sea.

best regards

petar vajevic
 * my e-mail is   petarvajevic@yahoo.com
 * p.s. i believe that you should correct the things mentioned above, in order to stay a valuable, trustworthy and reliable source of information

Dear Petar, the original text mentions Central Macedonia, not Central Greece, so it is abolutely right. The Delta of Axios/Vardar river is around 30 km from the city of Thessaloniki.

Please note that there was a signed treaty in which Yugoslavia, renewed on 1987, that would allow a minimum of 32 cubic meters / second to pass the border. Today it's merely 10, contributing to a large problem that exists at the river end which is a protected natural environment and hosts more than 200 rare species of birds.

And before my note reaches the two countries naming dispute, I'd like to make clear that the environmental health is of much greater importantance.

The vardar river... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.53.60.25 (talk) 20:27, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Vardar, Vardaris, Axios
The river flows through 2 countries and each one has a different management for this resource. Maps show each section of the river under its separate name. It makes sense to have two articles, one for Vardar (river) and one for Axios (river). That is how it appears in the Times Atlas. Also, the article has a map, pictures and information box at the botom that clearly link it to the Republic of Maceodnia, as indeed it should considering that it how it is called there. For the river Rhine in wikepedia, the name of the article is in the English international form; even though it is called Rhein and Rhin in German and French. Politis (talk) 21:31, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Having two separate articles is quite out of the question. It's still a single river. About what name to prefer for the article title, the relevant guideline is at WP:NCGN, with further recommendations by the relevant wikiproject at WP:RIVER. Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:15, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, about the map: it's certainly not optimal to have a map only showing the upper parts. We could use File:Macedonia topography.svg instead, or something created on its basis, or on the basis of File:Greece large topographic basemap.svg. Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:40, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

OK, these were pertinent links. A brief look at the 2 wiki articles/guidelines about naming tells me they could be interpreted to justify either name. One item stood out for me in 'Rivers with multiple names': "If everything else is equal, then choose the name for the section of the river closest to the river's mouth, since generally that is where the river is widest." Politis (talk) 17:06, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Yep, but everything else isn't equal: the length criterion would be clearly on the "Vardar" side (about 3/4 of the river are in the R.o.M.), and, even more importantly, according to what some people found out earlier, the majority of English usage also seems to be clearly on the "Vardar" side. Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:52, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Certainly hardly anyone outside those 2 countries has any cause to refer to the river. I ran a factiva search for the terms Axios and Vardar. For the last six months: Ax96, Vx95; for the last two years: Ax453, Vx402; for 1990-2010: Ax1590, Vx1592. This is neck and neck which would mean that, as terms, either one is valid. Politis (talk) 22:49, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not very familiar with Factiva. Could you give a bit more background info about that kind of search, and what material it searches? It seems an astonishing result, given the Google search results are quite different (G.books Vardar river vs. Axios river yields 21,500 vs. 5,500; G.web with same search terms 800,000 vs. 200,000.) Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:19, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Understandable. Factiva is a subscription based search engine. Since I am not sure if the site can be accessed by non-subscribers here is some info from the site (I have not altered the text):
 * Description: Global news and business information from over 9,000 authoritative sources, including newspapers from around the world. Publisher: Factiva, a Dow Jones & Reuters Company. Creator: Dow Jones & Reuters
 * Content: Factiva.com offers more than 28,000 of the world's leading news and business sources from 159 countries, 350 geographic regions and in 23 languages. 2,900+ Newspapers: Same-day and archival coverage of the world's most influential newspapers, including The Wall Street Journal, South China Morning Post, The Times, El Pais—Nacional, Les Echos and Süddeutsche Zeitung—as well as local newspapers from every corner of the globe. Politis (talk) 10:21, 19 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Ah, I see. It does have a public non-subscription search function, which gives me 69 "Axios" vs 91 "Vardar" for the last three months. Don't know if that is from the same material you got. However, a large part of the "Axios" hits appear to be unrelated, about some company named "Axios", and some (though not quite such a high proportion) of the Vardar one are also off. Did you check your results for false positives? (It may help to search for the names together with "river", to help disambiguate.) Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:26, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

It looks like 6 of one and half a douzen of the other. I searched Axios River and Vardar River (and viceversa) for a period of, 3 months - 2 years – 1990-2010; 2005-2010 - all. Dont try to make sense of variances in the numbers, I tried and put it down to search engine particularities.
 * Vardar: 2; 65; 315; 118; 350
 * Axios: 0; 149; 196; 167; 199
 * Overall Vardar has most quotes. Axios has the upper hand for the last 5 years. So the argument for Vardar is valid, unless the goal posts are shifted to recent usage. Obviously this, as well as google, are totally arbitrary standards by which to measure usage and perception but no problem. One last detail, for the delta, there are no results in google or factiva for a Delta of Vardar but thousands for Delta of Axios including 4 in factiva. Politis (talk) 15:37, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Names of the river
I came across this information but cannot substantiate it yet. Homer refers to it as Ευρυρρέον (Evryrreon) which translates as 'Wide flowing river'. Later, the Persian named it 'Var-Dar' or Large River. During the Macedonian kingdom it becomes know as Axios or Naxios. During the Byzantine empire it reverts to Vardarios (Βαρδάριος) and later as Vardaris. Politis (talk) 09:24, 25 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Can someone give me a source about the claim that the river was sometimes called Bardarios by the ancient Greek authors during 3rd century BCE? Thanks Niko77777 (talk) 08:58, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Renaming
Because this is a river, the article should be called Vardar River or River Vardar Electos242 (talk) 17:26, 12 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Can someone give me a source about the claim that the river was sometimes called Bardarios by the ancient Greek authors during 3rd century BCE? Niko77777 (talk) 08:58, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Axios (website) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 18:34, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Bardarios
Can someone give me a source about the claim that the river was sometimes called Bardarios by the ancient Greek authors during 3rd century BCE? Thanks Niko77777 (talk) 08:59, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
 * It seems that Bardarios was used in the Byzantine period . Ktrimi991 (talk) 15:00, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Vardar
A Romanian synonym for “Vardar” is “Murdar” which means “turbid”, Vardar, the “turbid river”. Macedonian people are ethnically related to Romanian people, the language they speak is an old Romanian dialect. 2607:FEA8:57E0:332:D048:731F:3E8A:F558 (talk) 19:50, 22 December 2023 (UTC)