Talk:Vel' d'Hiv Roundup

Drancy memorial
In the description of the memorial I have left a reference to Jewish tradition in nearly the French in which I found it: the "Justs".

I know that's not right but I don't know the right word. Please would someone insert the right one for me? Thanks. Les woodland (talk) 18:10, 19 November 2007 (UTC)les woodland


 * Haven't had time to review the work, but thanks for additions. You might want to keep in notes the original French text of citations (to keep the original and for reference to translations, some seems a bit erroneous). Justes is Righteous in English (see Righteous Among the Nations). Tazmaniacs (talk) 17:45, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I was concerned, not being Jewish, whether I would use the right word in translation. If anybody still thinks it's wrong, I'd be happy for it to be changed. Les woodland (talk) 18:10, 21 November 2007 (UTC)les woodland

There seems to be a confusion at footnote 26, in relation to the '36'. The reference to 'Righteous' should not be made in relation to the 'righteous amongst nations', which is a modern reference to non-Jews who saved Jews in WW2; the notion of the '36 righteous people' in the quote in the article derives from a Kabbalistic legend that the existence of the world depends on 36 anonymous people - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzadikim_Nistarim Man on the Clapham Omnibus (talk) 02:39, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Title of article
I have been searching for the best title in English for this article, because « Rafle du Vélodrome d'Hiver » is too French to pronounce in English and no one I asked understands it. The English translation of the French word « rafle », according to my bilingual Robert dictionary, is « police roundup, police raid, swoop ». On the other hand, according to my AMHER, the first three English definitions for "Roundup" are about cattle, and workers and horses collecting cattle, and only the fourth definition states: « A gathering up of people under suspicion by the police. » --- In my opinion, that's really not good enough, but I suppose it must do. Based on (English) Google hits on a restricted search, the most common name in English for this Nazi action is « Vel' d'Hiv Roundup », far more than « Vel' d'Hiv Raid ». Also, the only comprehensive, long article I found on this subject in English at the Encyclopedia of Mass Violence (http://www.massviolence.org/The-Vel-d-Hiv-round-up) also calls it « The Vel' d'Hiv Roundup ». So based on these two results, I am moving the article to the same title. Charvex (talk) 11:46, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Hello, I think the word "roundup" shouldn't begin with a capital letters, per the Manual of Style: "The initial letter of a title is capitalized (except in very rare cases, such as eBay). Otherwise, capital letters are used only where they would be used in a normal sentence (Funding of UNESCO projects, not Funding of UNESCO Projects)."
 * "Roundup" also sounds too colloquial to me. How about "Vel' d'Hiv arrests" instead? Loves  Macs  (talk) 23:43, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The "Vel' d'Hiv" as it is often called, includes all of the following events: 1.) the arrest of 13,000 Jews (75% women and children) by the German Nazi VT and complicit police force of Occupied Paris, 2.) the temporary and brief collection of these people at the Vélodrome d'Hiver cycle track AND at the Drancy internment site less than five kilometers north of Paris, 3.) 13,000 people crammed tightly into convoys (boxcars) without food or water and little air, who are then 4.) shipped by rail to Auschwitz and 5.) who, with a very few exceptions, all arrive dead at Auschwitz (the gas chambers were not necessary, except for the few). -- The number that died is almost the same the number of Jews that died in (better known) horrific pogrom at Iaşi (Romania). --- I personally believe the word "Arrests" that you suggest is completely inadequate. I am not fond of the word "Roundup" either, however, in the English language, the largest number of articles written about this event call it the "Vel' d'Hiv Roundup." --- I do not think we should "invent" a new name for this just for Wikipédia. On the other hand, perhaps just calling the article: Vel' d'Hiv is best. -- What do you think of this? Charvex (talk) 10:00, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I looked at one book, Vichy France and the Jews by Michael Marrus and Robert Paxton, Stanford University Press, ISBN 0804724997, and it used "Vel d'Hiv Roundup", capitalized exactly as shown.


 * I'm now convinced that the current title, Vel d'Hiv Roundup, is satisfactory. Redirects can be made for alternative spellings and titles. Thank you. Loves  Macs  (talk) 17:37, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

how coiulkd those thought less men do such a thing just to impresss the french goverment i  juudt wonder if they evr thought about how the family thought when they had been taken away from there very homes. dpresssion goes through alot understanding — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.155.192.102 (talk) 13:03, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

External links: dead links?
Wiki editor: the pages of Andre Tulard and others listed don't show up on wiki except as meaningless code.74.239.209.92 (talk) 08:09, 7 November 2011 (UTC) N.B. This remark originally posted to the mainspace page; removed there by Undo and reposted here by Deborahjay (talk) 08:30, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Significance section - should we delete?
I don't know who wrote the essay that is this section but it is not cited and does not sound at all like an encyclopedia article. It's a lot of opinion and editorializing.

I don't necessary disagree with the editorial, but is it suitable on Wikipedia??

Peter K Burian (talk) 17:50, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Agreed, its not suitable as its unreferenced POV/sermonising, deleted. Mztourist (talk) 11:03, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

External links modified
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Re: German involvement
Hi, I noticed that stated that "no German took part in this" in their recent edit. According to Yad Vashem, although the French Police did the actual roundup, Germans do seem to have been involved. How could an update best be worded to reflect this nuance? - Mdaniels5757 (talk) 22:24, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:51, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Vel' d'Hiv Roundup.jpg