Talk:Vellala Gounder

Sir, Why do you meddle with internal link options?I never did with ur article vellala gounder.This will spark a erase-counter erase program again.Please co-operate.I know ur Ravindran Ganapati and lets be good friends. Thanking You,

Pon Dheepankar,Delhi University


 * The foramt fot Dissam pages in Wiki is like this


 * Gounder caste...
 * Gounder title...


 * Please follow the format
 * RaveenS 13:58, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

dear sir,

youve mentioned that vettuvars and vellalars have common origin with their kootam system.one known fact is that vettuvars are called vadugars or northeners.even today legend says that vettuvars were NOT THE ORIGINAL PEOPLE(the hunter gatherer theory is not applicable here) of kongunadu and were taken into it by vellalas to clear the forests.later they assimilated the kootam system of vellalas and also the title gounder like how the vanniars assimilated it.the vettuvars at one point of time were in equal numbers to the vellalas and the power struggle is reflected in annamar kathai.so please dont spread the new myth of vettuva vellala common origin(ie dont use the european hunter->gatherer->agriculturist theory blindly here.

the research is purely speculative and lacks solid proof.........
dear friend,

the research of urs can be appreciated to have study value but the authenticity is purely speculative.please give references of inscriptions,plates,texts,grants,etc.., with love, pondheepankar k delhi university. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.141.141.36 (talk) 11:23, 4 May 2007 (UTC).

Hey do you have solid proof (i.e hystorical or etymological?)

Groupism i.e., Caste origin
The origin of groupism i.e., caste seems to have started with people trying to refer to themselves as one group. There was no divisions and sub divisions until different people started competing for the same resources and had to organize themselves into groups to improve their chances in competing.

Lathead 12:05, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Subdivision origin
Another reason for groupism came from the profession followed by the differnt groups. As people changed professions, they also had to change names to reflect those professions. However they needed to differentiate themselves from people who were already using those professional names. So as people took up farming they had to call themselves Vellala. However since other groups were using Vellala as title, different groups with additional names were created. Thus were created the various groups of Vellala.

Lathead 12:05, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

brother/machi
You have written gounders don't use brahmins..........will you please clarify what then is the Kulaguru? For example mine is Elumathur kadai kootam and kulaguru is Pasur Akilanda Deeksitar so pls dont put junk based on Dravidianist propaganda. love Pon D.U

Sir, I never seen any Kongu Vellala Gounder marriage conducted by brahmins. In other way, i only seen marriage conducted by Arumaikarar, i only seen Gounders Marriage. Kurumban 19:26, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

have you ever read Pasur Akilanda Dikshitar adimai pattayam...where all the Gounders of Poondurai nadu (Erode Tk.)( have accepted him as ytheir Kulaguru?)...

for Kangeya nadu (Kangayam Tk.), there is Keeranur Gurukkal...

i agree trhat we dont use brahminical method of marriage but the Kshatriya type....but in mangala valthu...kambar has clearly given that brahmins come in at the time of muhurtam and during jathakam verification....not any brahmin but our local kula guru...if youn are a gounder, it is a common knowledge that our kulaguru (samiar) used to come to villages and recieve tributes...rpls. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.96.139.222 (talk) 08:45, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I didn't read pattayam but I never seen any brahmin in gounder marriage customs. we do jathakam verification but we go to individual josiyars not necessarly to brahmin, also many gounders are in josiyam profession. esp valluvan's are famous in jothidam. I know only kula theiyan not kula guru, i never seen any kula guru we respect samiyar's that does not mean they are kula guru. We have morethan 150 kulams, how many kulams/kootams have kula guru??? i know none. by the way i am goundan - Kurumban 03:18, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

machi im also goundan elumathur kadai (panangada) koottam....every single koottam has kulaguru...samiyar=swami (master)+r (resepact)....also know that before 40 yrs. kulagurus had high respect before thi.ka.....better read some history from pattayams (esp. pasur akilanda ditchithar cheppedu)...they (our granpas) pledged their lifes and property for the guru....which koottam r u? which kuladeivam? i'll try to find ur kulaguru...these ppl. are mostly very nice kongunattu brahmins...

by the way...have you read kambar's mangala vazhthu? you can find references of brahmins in gounder marriage process... 59.92.114.222 22:56, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Machi I enquired my father and grandfather they don't know any thing about kula guru. Here i give few kulam's list, tell me their kula guru's. Anthai - veerakumar, maniyan - navaladiyaan, perungudi - vaangal, velaiyan - sivagiri pon kaliamman, koorai - sivagiri pon kaliamman, senpon - periyamanali, kannan - navaladiyaan. I didn't find any reference of brahmins in kongu mangala vaazhthu. If pattyams are in book form tell me i will read it. I don't have any thing against brahmins but i know about thanjavur and kudanthai brahmins...:-;. 69.255.40.38 03:27, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

yes they gang up sometimes to undesirable extents which leads other people to exploit the situation and take mileage of this attitude of theirs. so a kind of tit for tat kind of groupist tendancy is formed. ti.ka attacking the brahminists (remember, these brahminists are not all brahmins but those who have 0 knowledge of the tradition and study persian believing in the Aryan Invasion Theory! See again, you misunderstood. Each of the 24 nadus have specific kulagrus. those who later migrated to other nadus, they still hold to the same kulaguru. I should rather call them Nadu kulagurus. I would like you to read.

கொங்கு வெள்ளாளர் செப்பேடு பட்டயங்கள், புலவர் ராசு, 2007, கொங்கு ஆய்வு மையம் where he has compiled copperpalte inscriptions dating கலியுக வருடம் 200BC! (கரூர் மாந்தரஞ்சேரல் மெய்க்கீர்த்தி)

and also கொங்கு வெள்ளாளர் கல்வெட்டுகளும் காணிப்பாடல்களும்,புலவர் ராசு, 2007, கொங்கு ஆய்வு மையம் for edicts and nativity songs.

These two will give you firsthand info.

Of couse, we do not accept கன்னியாதானம் and we dont marry in bridegroom's house (we marry at bride's house), also horse is used ritually. These clearly indicate the Kshatriya style of marriage. That is why the Brahmanar comes at last, during மங்கிலியம் ceremony (tying the nuptial knot) thats all...

Ok coming to mangala vazhtu...see line 33 வேதியன் பக்கமே விரைவுடன் சென்று..ok...also scanned and taped links here.. http://ta.wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%AE%95%E0%AF%8A%E0%AE%99%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%95%E0%AF%81_%E0%AE%AE%E0%AE%99%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%95%E0%AE%B2%E0%AE%B5%E0%AE%BE%E0%AE%B4%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%A4%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%A4%E0%AF%81