Talk:Venkateswara/Archive 1

Merger
The content below is copied from Talk:Lord Venkateswara. ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 04:19, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

I doubt the accuracy of the number of visitors and most-visited status of this temple. [[User:Poccil|Peter O. (Talk)]] 21:34, Sep 21, 2004 (UTC)

according to the TTD, Balaji receives over 50K per day. On festival days of course the number would be much higher.


 * I merged this w Venkateshwara. Please discuss @ Talk:Venkateshwara, and find a compromise so that the dispute can be removed. ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 04:19, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

Dispute
I am removing the accuracy dispute header. Please help make the needed changes if you insit on replacing it. ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 20:18, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

I can help cleanup this article --Vyzasatya 23:58, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Reassess as Start
Needs a CLEANUP. Issues: Thus not worthy of the "commonly the highest article grade that is assigned outside a more formal review process".--Redtigerxyz (talk) 06:36, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * WP:UNDUE glorification of the Diety. Not encyclopedic, more like devotee literature
 * No References. WP:OR like "Adi Sankaracharya came to Tirumala and placed Sri chakra at the lotus feet of Lord Venkateshwara and sung the famous song "Bhaja Govindam". So Lord Venkateshwara is the supreme God of this Kali yuga".
 * Infobox needed
 * Lead not as WP:LEAD
 * WP:MOS violations like use of "God" (not 'god'); bolding of BALAJI, GOD etc.


 * Maybe Legend of Tirumala can be provided in legends. The legend be written in summary style. --Redtigerxyz (talk) 11:53, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * By any chance, are you coming from an ISKON/Gaudiya stance in regard to this issue? Venkatesha is one of the most revered forms of God in India. Scripturally, it says that Venkateswara is the present incarnation of Vishnu or Narayana. Scripturally, Sadhu-wise and tradition, before the schisms from the Sri Sampradayam of 12th through 16th centuries,all say that Narayana is God or Brahman. If you would like, I can give you websites and email addresses of Actual vedically trainned, school trainned Sri Sampradayam pandits and others who can prove this point. --zeuspitar Govinda Ramanuja dasa(talk) 11:53, 04 March 2008 (UTC)

Neutrality issues
The article at severe times says Venkateswara is "supreme god". This against the WP:NEUTRAL policy.--Redtigerxyz (talk) 06:20, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Dear Redtigerxyz, you wrote some time back the following on the discussion page of Venkateswara:

"The article at severe times says Venkateswara is "supreme god". This against the WP:NEUTRAL policy" According to the original principles of the Sri Sampradayam, to various supported puranic text and Sadhus; Venkateswara is the form of Vishnu for this age of kali as mention in many Sastras. Since He is Vishnu or Narayana...He is the "Supreme God", who is also mention in the original Vedas, main Upanishads, sattvic Puranas, the laws of Manu,by the original Vaishnava saints-the Alwars,by Ramanujacharya as the First and "Supreme God". That is Sastra, Sadhu and Dharma (Scriptures, holy men and tradition). That is what this article-writer is trying to say. In the philosophical context of the Religion; it is not against the WP:NEUTRALpolicy. I also see that you have helped with ISKON articles. And, I know that alot of ISKON people do not know about Venkatesha, because of the belief of Sri Krishna and Caitanya Maha-Prabhu. The awareness, knowledge and scripturally back premise that Venkateswara is God to be Worship by all in the kali yuga is unrefuted by the alwars, Yamunacharya, Ramanujacharya, Vedanta desika, and but Scripture, which is the most important. If you like, I can send you some websites and the names and email address of Sri Sampradayam Scholars that can prove what I said to be truth and absolute FACT.Zeuspitar Govinda Ramanuja dasa(talk) 19:41, 03 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The article sounds like devotee literature repeating Venkateswara is "supreme god". In Hinduism, other gods like Shiva, Shakti, Ganesha, Surya are considered supreme gods in their resp. cults. (Shaivism, Shaktism, Ganapatya, Saura). In Vaishnavas, Vishnu is supreme, and not just the form of Venkateswara. In Shiva, it is written as " Within Shaivism he is viewed as the supreme deity, where as in other branches of Hinduism such as the Smarta tradition he is worshipped as one of five manifestations of the divine.", not just he is supreme God thus being NEUTRAL. About ISKCON, Somebody said "If we can,...can we work together with ONLY Rudra and redtigerxyz to do this...go through all the articles and make them non-bias....Govinda Ramanuja dasaUSA (talk) 09:27, 28 February 2008 (UTC)" on Talk:Bhagavad Gita. I have no connection to ISKCON and i do not know about their philosphy.--Redtigerxyz (talk) 11:50, 4 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Dear Redtigerxyz, Hey... I hope that I didnt come off too hash or too fanatical,if I did, I am very, very sorry. All night I was thinking about this, and...I need to stop it. I hope every thing is o.k. with you .Zeuspitar Govinda Ramanuja dasa(talk) 10:00, 04 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I think the "Supreme God" reference should probably be changed to avoid confusion, but perhaps (in the interest of WP:NPOV) a note should be added somewhere for the sects of Vaishnavism that do believe Venkateshwara is the Supreme God, preferably with a sourced link. While He is a form of Vishnu, nearly all Vaishnava sects believe that Vishnu is the source of all of His forms, and so to avoid confusion the note should be made. -- Shruti14 t c s 23:35, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

The Covered Eyes
In the lonely planet guide it says that Lord Venkateshwar's eyes are covered because they would scorch the universe otherwise. Any substantiation for this claim in scripture or folklore? It would make a nice addition to the article and draw some of the focus off of the temple. AaronCarson (talk) 19:32, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Never heard of that one before - in scripture or folklore. AFAIK (and through research) there is no such scriptural reference, and although there might be one in folklore (haven't heard of it and can't find one yet) I will say that it's not the first time I've seen incorrect claims or 'facts' made in Lonely Planet travel guides. -- Shruti14 t c s 15:52, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Recent Changes Made by Govinda Ramanuja dasa USA
While I like some of the changes made to the article, I do not think that I agree with all of them. (See here for a comparison of the article from before Govinda Ramanuja dasa USA made changes to what is there currently.) Parts of it still don't comply with WP:MOS, and more importantly, large portions of the article have been removed. I think we should keep some of the changes, but restore parts of the original article. -- Shruti14 t c s 15:03, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Study the comparison, almost no info is removed, its just re-organized. Kudos Zeuspitar.--Redtigerxyz (talk) 12:29, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey, guys, I am very thankful that we can help each other, comprimise with one another to improve articles. It actually quite nice. Please Shruti and everyone, let know what is wrong and I'll change them. Shruti, please help me to change what you think I did wrong. Govinda Ramanuja dasa USA (talk) 17:15, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The changes are pretty good for the most part - not much info was removed. Actually now that I look back at it I think they are fine - what needs to be focused on now is expansion and citing sources. -- Shruti14 t c s 00:29, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

UNDUE
REmoved: "Beliefs: To the majority of Vaishnavas; Vishnu or Narayana is considered and worshipped as the one supreme God or Brahman. Even though Vishnu incarnates in various forms or avataras at different times and purposes, He is still considered one and indivisible. His better known past avataras or incarnations have been Narasimha, Parashurama, Rama, and Krishna. According to Sastra or the Vedic scriptures; for this specific age called the Kali yuga, He has come in the form of Venkateshwara. To Vaishnavas, since He is Vishnu-incarnated, Venkateshwara is considered the supreme one God. " WP:UNDUE to beliefs about Vishnu, nothing really about Venkateswara form. --Redtigerxyz (talk) 12:40, 15 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Now thinking about it, I agree with you. Govinda Ramanuja dasa USA (talk) 15:18, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

The improvements on the page

 * Dear everyone, Hey, I really think that the changes that everyone has made to the Venkatesh. page are wonderful. It looks alot better than before. It's more stream lined, cleaner, and more user-friendly. I am very glad to have worked with you all in making this much better page than it was before. And, I am very thankful to have done this seva/kainkarya/devotional service to Vishnu and the public.Love and Namaskar. Govinda Ramanuja dasa USA (talk) 15:22, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Etymology
Instead of the parenthesized breakup of the word at the top, I have rewritten it in an "Etymology" section in sentence form. -- Shruti14 t c s 02:18, 15 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The meaning of the word Venkata being `destroyer of sins' is incorrect. Student's Sanskrit English Dictionary by Vaman Shivram Apte (Motilal Banarsidass Publishers Pvt. Ltd.) provides the meaning of Venkata (वेंकट:) to be the name of a mountain. There is no dictionary that translates ven (वें) to mean sin and kata (कट) to mean destroyer. If there is such a translation, please provide, else the existing translation will be deleted soon. Rishiyur1 (talk) 20:29, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Needs many more academic/scholarly sources
Please use more academic sources. Compare this article to the article here which is wholly better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vithoba. Thigle (talk) 22:09, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Tirumala Venkateswara Temple
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Tirumala Venkateswara Temple]]. Pavan 04:52, 11 April 2012 (UTC) Please participate in the RFC discussion of whether Thondaiman has built the Tirumala Temple. Pavan 04:52, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Venketashwara Etymology
WHy is there a non reliable source mentioned. Also the article itselelf states " I believe ......" , which means the referred article is a original research. unsourced articles in this page. This page needs improvement and semi protection !Eshwar.om (talk) 11:38, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Content of the article
The title Venkateshwara implies that this article will deal with Venkateshwara (Hindu GOD). But most of the content seems to be about the famous Tirupati temple dedicated to Venkateshwara. Depending on what we want to make this article we might needs to move some content from here to the temple article --Vyzasatya 19:27, 9 September 2005 (UTC)


 * All these related articles need heavy reshuffling of content and reorgnization

--Vyzasatya 09:43, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Tirumala
 * Tirumala Tirupati Devasthanams
 * Tirupati

The History section seems like a summary of the Legend section ("It is said that Lord Kubera ..." etc.). No dates and no historical grounding. What's appropriate here are historical facts whose date and legitimacy are reasonably well established. First references to Ventakateswara or Srinivasa. Mentions in literature that can be dated. With citations. Right now this section is a joke. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.202.19.23 (talk) 16:02, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Quality of the write-up
This article does not measure up to the quality of Wikipedia articles. The style and grammar should be revised. Please change the categorization of this article to include Jainism as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.116.156.130 (talk) 06:01, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Removing content from Origin of shrine section
The content which is cited says about the boundaries of Tamil land. But it never says anything about the existence of temple at all. aggi007(talk) 12:32, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

Venkateswara
"Kruthethu Naarasimho Bhoo Trethayaam Raghunandana

Dwapare Vasudevascha Kalau Venkatanayaka! ||"

Translation: In Kritha Yuga, Lord Narasimha, In Treta Yuga Lord Sri Rama, In Dwapara Yuga Lord Sri Krishna, and in Kaliyuga Lord Sri Venkateswara are called as Prathyaksha Dhaivams (Deities).

VARAHA PURANA: Sri Venkatesa mahatyam (History & glories of Lord Venkatesha & Tirumala) is mentioned in Varaha Purana. According to the Varaha Purana, Adi Varaha manifested Himself on the western bank of the Swami Pushkarini, while Sriman-Narayan as Venkateswara came to reside on the southern bank of the Swami Pushkarini.

"Venkatesha Ashtottara namavali" which is 108 names of Lord Venkatesha is also mentioned in Varaha Purana (this is different from 108 names mentioned in Brahmanda Purana), which is recited in Tirumala temple during morning worship after second bell.

"SrI: VenkatEsAth ParO dEvo nAsthyanya: SaraNam bhuvi VenkatEsa SamO dEvo nAsthi nAsthi maheetaLE" --VarAha PurANam, First Canto, chapter 61

Meaning:There is no other God like Venkatesa(sriman Narayan) to seek refuge for protection and there is no other God equal to Lord Venkateshwara(sriman Narayan).

"Venkatadri Samam Sthanam Brahmande Nasthi Kinchana

Venkatesa Samo Devo NaBhootho NaBhavishyathi" ||

-- Aditya Purana & Bhavishya Purana

SKANDA PURANA:

In Skanda Purana under "Vaishnava Khanda" glories of Lord Venkatesha & Tirumala-hill is mentioned with title "Venkatachalamahatmya (bhoomi-varaha-Khanda)".

Eu- logizing Lord Venkateshwara, Suta Maharshi (Suta Gowami) says -

"A man, who has the good fortune of seeing the divine appearance of Lord Srinivasa(sriman Narayan) even for a moment, attains salvation."

Skanda Puran also mentioned Sri Venkatesa Stotra(prayer) by Sage Padmanabha. This stotram(Prayer) has 6 stanzas only first stanza is mentioned below and remaining will be mentioned in the next post.

"1.Namo devasdhi devaaya, sarngine ,

Nararayanadhri vasaya, srinivasaya they nama.||"

Translation: Salutations to the God of Gods who holds the Sarnga bow,

Salutation to Srinivasa who lives on the Narayana mountain.

Let us salute this Lord on the top of Saptha Giri now:

NaarAyaNaadhri-nivAsAya SrInivAsaya tE nama:

SeshAchala nivAsAya SrInivAsAya tE nama:

Siva-BrahmAdhi vandhyAya SrInivAsAya tE nama:

PraNathArTi-vinAsAya SrInivAsAya tE nama:

Dhushta rAkshasa samharthrE SrInivAsAya tE anama:

BhakthAnAm pApa samharthrE SrInivAsAya tE anma:

--Excerpts from SkAndha PurANam

Translation: Here the Salutations is to the destroyer of all Paapams (Venkatam), who is worshipped by Siva and Brahma and who resides on top of the NaarAyaNadhri and SeshAdhri.

BHAVISHYOTTARA PURANA: Lord's Form or Posture in Tirumala Temple: Bhavishyottara Purana describe the Lord's bewitching postures. Details are as follows: The Lord's lower arms are held in a unique pose. The right arm is held in the "Vara Mudra", with the fingers pointing to His lotus feet, telling us that it is they (His tiruvadi) that form both our everlasting refuge and also the strategy to attain the same. Since this posture indicates the granting of the ultimate boon ("Varam") of His tiruvadi, it is known as "Vara Mudra".

The lower left hand is held at the hip, slightly bent inwards, assuring us not to be terrified of the unfathomable ocean of Samsaara, which would only be hip-deep to those who perform Sharanagati at His lotus feet, as indicated by His right palm. The following slokas from the Bhavishyottara Purana describe the Lord's bewitching postures and their purport-

"darsayan paaNinaikena dakshiNena Vrishaakapi: Pada padmam gatim cha paramaam nrinaam kati nyasta kareNaapi nija paadaabja gaaminaam nrunaam bhava payo raasim kati daghnam pradarsayan viraajate Venkatesha: sampratyapi ramaapati: ||".

Thus Srinivasa's postures are indicative of the incomparable combination of His Paratvam and Soulabhyam, both of which are required for the protection of mortals, for, Supremacy without accompanying mercy and related traits would make for a tyrant, while mere accessibility without requisite Supremacy would render the Lord well-meaning but impotent and incapable of protecting us. It is this winning combination of complementary and supplementary virtues which makes Srinivasa unique and matchless.

It is also noteworthy that the Lord of Tiruvenkatam points to His tiruvadi with His open right palm, symbolically indicating the Bhagavat Gita dictum to surrender to Him--"Maam Ekam sharanam vraja!", thereby confirming that this Lord is indeed Sri Krishna (Venkata Krishna) of the kaliyuga.

BhavishyOttara Puraana: The BhavishyOttara Puraana furnishes the example of a brahmin called Maadhava, who had slipped from being a pious and devout paragon of virtues, to a condemnable existence with all sorts of unbecoming conduct. The moment this Madhava accidentally he touched the Venkatachala Hills, all the sins residing in his him burnt themselves out and exited from his body with a great noise and flame, proving to the astounded onlookers the efficacy of the Hills and of its presiding deity in destroying accumulated misdeeds, just as the fire annihilates rubbish.

Bhavishyottara Purana considers Tiruvenkatamudayaan verily as Sri Krishna Himself and equates the ant hill from which the Lord emerged to be Sri Devaki, the Tamarind tree atop it to be Sri Vasudeva, Sri Balarama, avataara of Sri Adisesha, as Seshaachalam, the hallowed hilly terrain of Tirumala as Mathura, the Swami Pushkarini asYamuna nathi and the varied fauna and flora of the hills, which spend their lives in the service of the Lord, as the Gopa kanyaas.

It is also noteworthy that the Lord of Tiruvenkatam points to His tiruvadi with His open right palm, symbolically indicating the Bhagavat Gita dictum to surrender to Him--"Maam Ekam sharanam vraja!", thereby confirming that this Lord is indeed Sri Krishna (Venkata Krishnan) of the kaliyuga.

ADITYA PURANA(MAHA UPA PURANA):

Aditya Purana contains SrI vEmkaTESa mAhAtmyam (Glories of Lord Sri Venkatesha & Tirumala).

Sage SrI VedavyAsa encapsulated, the proclaimed mahima, in another masterpiece, called SrI vEmkaTESa mAhAtmyam as part of AdityapurANAmtargata prabamdham.

The great sage sUta maharshi described the mAhAtmyam of the Lord to the sages Saunaka munis as per their request on the shores of the holy river Ganga (at a place called naimikAraNyam - several anecdotes were mentioned in the purANAs about the sthala mahima of the place).

Appropriately, the place of narration of VEmkaTESa mAhAtmyam by the great sage sUta also adds dignity, sanctity and splendor due to the sthala mahima. The place, time and the narrator are significant factors to implant, nurture and enhance the devotion in the minds of the audience.

one of the verses of Aditya puran:

"Venkatadri Samam Sthanam Brahmande Nasthi Kinchana

Venkatesa Samo Devo NaBhootho NaBhavishyathi" ||

Sloka Meaning: In the Universe there is no sacred place equivalent to Venkatadri (Tirumala) and there is no God equivalent to Lord Venkateswara neither in the past nor in the future going to be. This sloka is mentioned in Varaha Purana and also in Aditya Purana by Sri Vedavyasa & this sloka was told by Suta maharshi to sages named Saunaka munis in a place called Naimisharanya.

MARKANDEYA PURAN:

Markandeya purana mentions "Sri Venkateshwara Vajra Kavacha Sthothram" by sage Markandeya. This stotram(Prayer) contains 5 stanzas only first stanza is mentioned below and remaining will be mentioned in the next post.

"Narayanam Parabrahma,

sarvakaarana kaaranam

Prapadye Venkatesakhyaam,

Tadeva kavacham mama. ||".....

Translation: I bow and salute that Venkatesa, Who is lord Narayana himself, Who is the divine Lord of all, And who is the cause of all causes, And chant his armour for myself.

MaarkaNDEya Puran, Second Chapter verses of Theertha KaaNDam:

Jaya Deva! JagannATa ! SarvalOkaika Vanditha

Jaya VenkatasailEsa ! KaruNAkara ! Paahi na:

KrupAnidhE! Namas-thubhyam VaradAya NamO nama:

VenkatAdhIsa! VISVESA! Satha KruthvO namO nama:

(meaning): Hail to Thee Oh Lord of the Universe worshipped by all the beings of Your universe! Hail to Thee Oh Lord of Venkatam hills! Oh Most Merciful One! Please protect us.

Oh the treasure house of Daya! Oh matchless boon-granter!

Our salutations to You ! Oh VISVESA! Our repeated salutations

to You!

PADMA PURANA:

Padam Purana contains"Sri Venkatesha Sahasra Nam" which is 1008 names of Lord Sri Venkatesha (Sri Venkatesha Sahasra Nama is different from Vishnu sahasranama. Pradma Purana, Uttara Khanda section contains Vishnu sahasranama).

According to Padma Purana, Sri Venkateswara is the incarnation of supreme Lord Vishnu in Kalyug. His consort Padmavathi(Alamelumanga) is none other than Goddess Mahalaxmi herself.

The Padma Purana gives a vivid description of the advent of the Goddess and subsequent wedding with Lord Srinivasa.

BRAHMA PURANA:

According to the Brahma Purana, Lord Vishnu wanted a change from Vaikuntha, so he inquired from Narada Muni about a place on earth for diversion and sport. Narada suggested Sesachalam (the head of Ananta Sesa on this Earth).

VAMANA PURANA: The Vamana Purana extolls the glory of the Vimana of Tirumala Venkateshwara Temple in the following verse:

"Vimanam sarva paapagnam sarva lokeshu vishrutam apraakritam anaadyantam Vaikunttat aagatam mahat ||"

This very Vimanam, which is renowned in all worlds, is extra-terrestrial and without a beginning and an end, is capable of comprehensively destroying all our sins, says the sloka.

The word Vimanam can be broken into "Visishta maanam", meaning the most exalted of all authority (Pramaanam), since it reveals to us the most magnificent of all things to be known (Prameyam), viz., the Lord.

VEDAS: Sri Vaishna sampraday(Sri Vaishnavate tradition) opines that the Rig Veda verse X.155.1 makes an indirect reference to the temple. One such translation goes as: “The person, devoid of wealth and vision, is implored to go to the hill which burns up all evil (vikata for Venkata) and drives away all obstacles to peace and prosperity. The call of the rishi Sirimbitha has obviously not gone in vain".Ahtunowhiho (talk) 14:52, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Vandalism or legit?
I saw this:

"All mantras originated here, I got venkaTESa mantram from infancy itself. Narada chanted nArAyaNa mantram, prahlAda got nArasimha mantram vibheeshaNa lovingly took up rAma mantram, I got venkaTESa mantram."

In English text it looks like vandalism to me. Please revert if I got it wrong. Manytexts (talk) 04:31, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

The "lord" should be removed.
The world "lord" before "venkateswara" should be removed ,because in the article "Jagannath", there is no "lord" before the name, in the article "Rangannatha", there is no "lord" before the name. Even in the article"Jesus", there is no "lord" before the name. So, as my concern, the word "lord" should be removed from "Venkateswara", if not, then the word "lord" should be added before to all the other articles I have mentioned abhove. Justice should be done. Thank you Pratimatripathy (talk) 11:46, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Venkateswara
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Venkateswara's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Tirumalatemple": From Ananda Nilayam:  From History of Tirumala Venkateswara Temple:  From Sri Malayappa Swami:  From Tirumala Rama Idol:  From Koluvu Srinivasa:  From Tirumala Dhruva Bera:  From Deities in Tirumala Venkateswara Temple:  

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 13:36, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Biblical references
I have removed the references to Baal as a name for Venkateshwara and other related conjecture. There is no basis for any of this and it serves to obfuscate rather than illuminate. If anyone wishes to reinsert please at least make clear that such discussion is merely speculation.