Talk:Vermeer Corporation

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 * Added tag to http://www.taylorvoss.com/family-history/VermeerFamilyHistory-Part4.pdf
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Some proposed changes
Please change Jason Andringa's title in the introduction paragraph to "President and CEO". Citation here. Under "Vermeer history and product expansion" please change the second sentence to "Farm neighbors observed his wagon hoist in operation and asked for ones of their own." to improve readability.
 * ✅ Altamel (talk) 05:58, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Some more proposed changes
Introduction suggested edits
 * Please change the second to last sentence in the intro paragraph to say "partially owned subsidiaries in the United States" instead of "partially owned subsidiaries in several of the United States" to improve readability.
 * ✅ Altamel (talk) 05:31, 12 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Please change the number of products distributed from "over 120" to "over 200" as listed in the intro paragraph in order to update information.
 * I just deleted the number, since it changes constantly. Altamel (talk) 05:31, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Vermeer history and product expansion suggested edits
 * Please change the heading "Vermeer history and product expansion" to simply read "History" in order to be more concise.
 * ✅ Altamel (talk) 05:31, 12 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Please change the first date in the first paragraph under "History" to "1943" not "1948". Citation can be found in the book In Search of a Better Way by Carol Van Klompenburg and Donna Biddle on page 22.
 * Vermeer's own website claims the company was founded in 1948. Can you explain this discrepancy? Altamel (talk) 05:31, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, the company was founded in 1948. The mechanical wagon hoist, however, was invented five years prior in 1943. porch projector 14:49, 12 February 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by PorchProjector (talk • contribs)


 * Please change the sentence under "History" that currently reads "At his request, a local machine shop fabricated a number of these hoists to meet demand" to "Van Gorp Welding, a local machine shop, was able to fill requests for the hoists and meet demand." to improve readability and accuracy. Citation: In Search of a Better Way by Carol Van Klompenburg and Donna Biddle pg 24.
 * I can't access the book. I'm skipping edit requests dependent on that source. Altamel (talk) 05:31, 12 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Under "History" Please change the sentences from "In the spring of 1948, it was evident that the unit could be produced and marketed on a larger scale. Consequently, as word spread, Gary (along with his cousin and local banker Ralph Vermeer) started Vermeer Manufacturing Co. Shortly thereafter, they began manufacturing the mechanical hoist in their newly built factory. However, the introduction of competitive hydraulic wagon hoists made it obvious that new products must be developed for the young company to survive.[6]" to "In the fall of 1948, it became evident that the unit could be produced and marketed on a larger scale.[x] Gary (with the help of his cousin and local banker Ralph Vermeer) started Vermeer Manufacturing Co on November 22, 1948.[x] They began manufacturing the mechanical hoist in their newly built factory. With the introduction of competitive hydraulic wagon hoists, it became apparent that new products must be developed for the young company to survive.[6]" to fix errors regarding dates and improve readability. Where I placed the [x]'s please cite In Search of a Better Way by Carol Van Klompenburg and Donna Biddle pg 30.
 * Please replace the entire second paragraph under "History" with the following: "That new product came in the 1950s when Vermeer introduced two new machines: a portable PTO-powered hammermill and a self-propelled irrigation system. The Vermeer Pow-R Drive was successful and thousands were sold. Through these early years, other small farm equipment items, such as wagon end-gate seeders and wheel cleaners for row-crop tractors, were designed and manufactured.[6]" to improve readability.
 * Please change the following paragraph that begins with "In 1955" to the following: "In 1955, the original boom-type agricultural sprinkler, designed for use with high-clearance crops like corn, was developed and marketed. The Vermeer sprinkler covered a large area with a low precipitation rate and drastically reduced labor costs, causing its success on the market.[6]" to improve readability.
 * ✅ Altamel (talk) 05:31, 12 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Please change the phrase "farm industry" to "farming industry" in the paragraph that begins with "In 1956" to improve readability.
 * ✅ Altamel (talk) 05:31, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Citation Here is the citation for the book mentioned. I am new to Wikipedia so hopefully I did it correctly. Thank you!
 * Please change the paragraph that begins with "Shortly after" to the following: "Shortly after, the first Pow-R-Stump Cutter was introduced. While testing a new stump cutter prototype in 1957, a Vermeer team member accidentally hit the wrong lever causing the cutting wheel to move horizontally across the stump. The mistake revealed that the stump cutter worked five times faster moving horizontally. Other stump cutters at the time were expensive, cumbersome, and impractical for widespread use. The patented Vermeer stump cutter became the first practical and affordable solution to stump removal.[6]" to improve readability.
 * Please change the paragraph starting in "In 1963" to the following: "New product development continued into the early 1960s as Vermeer began building a mechanical tree-mover. The final machine, called the Vermeer TM-700, was introduced just a few months after development began in 1963. The TM-700 became the first machine designed to dig, transport and replace large trees. Approximately four years later, the Vermeer tree spade was introduced. The first machine, model TS-44, had immediate success and more than 400 units were sold the first year.[6]" to improve readability.
 * Please change the paragraph starting with "In 1971" to the following: "In 1971, a friend of Gary Vermeer confided in him that he was planning on quitting the cow-calf business. He was tired of trying to find enough people to help put up his hay. Gary immediately set to work on a one-man-hay system. "I had no idea what it looked like, but we began designing and building," said Gary. The first round baler was ready just 45 days later, forever changing the hay industry." to improve readability. Citation for the quote.
 * After the paragraph mentioned above, please insert the following paragraph: "In the 1980s, Vermeer built larger and more powerful trenchers than before. These new and improved machines allowed builders to lay an underground pipeline network. These networks connected energy sources to markets around the world." In order to add information about the 80s, something previously missing from the page. Citation for that information.
 * Please change the paragraph beginning with "Vermeer prepared" to the following: "Vermeer prepared for another expansion in 1991 with the introduction of the first Vermeer horizontal directional drill. These directional drills were used to install fiber optic cables during the dot-com boom and worked on road construction and mining projects. By the end of the decade, the NAVIGATOR horizontal directional drilling machine line-up became a market-share leader worldwide." and add citation to improve readability and add missing citation.
 * Please change the paragraph beginning "In 2011" to the following; "In 2011, Vermeer experienced its largest sale in the history of the company. The sale, which took place in Australia, included multiple terrain levelers for surface mining. Seven Vermeer T1655s, the largest machine that has ever been manufactured in Iowa, were included.[8]" in order to improve readability.
 * Please add a new paragraph after the above paragraph that reads: "In 2017, Vermeer revealed a prototype for the world's first self-propelled hay baler. For the first time, Vermeer showed a prototyped machine to customers before the official launch. This prototype, called the ZR5, offers more maneuverability and comfort than the standard tractor and baler combo." plus citation found here. to fill in missing information on the timeline.
 * Please change the paragraph beginning "Today" to the following "As of 2018, Vermeer holds several product and design patents within its line of utility and track trenchers, directional boring systems, tub grinders, tree care equipment, excavation machines, and hay-harvesting products. The company markets over 200 agricultural and industrial products worldwide, and operates 1,500,000 square feet (140,000 m2) of manufacturing plant space." To improve readability, add a solid date instead of using the word today, and update numbers that were out of date.

porch projector 17:37, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

Reference source "In Search of a Better Way"
The book "In Search of a Better Way" was published by Vermeer — not an independent publishing house. That renders it as WP:SELFPUB which brings the following requirements into play: I believe on each claim where this book is used as a reference, there are one or more of the above requirements which are not met. Accordingly, this book should not be used as a source.  Spintendo  ᔦᔭ   06:00, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
 * 1) The material must neither be unduly self-serving nor an exceptional claim;
 * 2) It must not involve claims about third parties;
 * 3) It must not involve claims about events not directly related to the source;
 * 4) There must be no reasonable doubt as to its authenticity; and
 * 5) The article as a whole must not be based primarily on such sources.

Needs better sourcing
The claims above which were not decided upon are all in need of better sourcing. The majority of them feature the company itself as a reference, and the one claim featuring an outside reference, Agriculture.com, is not a WP:RS. Regards,      Spintendo       09:02, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Updated Edits
Hi all, I would just like to clarify that Vermeer is a privately owned company. This means that there are very few third-party sources with reliable information on dates. Since the company website has been approved for use, I found as many dates as I could on there. However, there was one company name that I could only find listed in the book. If you still are unable to use this source, I offered an alternative edit that leaves out that information. Again, I am only trying to fill in the timeline with accurate information. Thank you for all your help!


 * Please change the first date in the first paragraph under "History" to "1943" not "1948". Just to clarify, the company was founded in the fall of 1948, but the wagon hoist was invented 5 years prior in 1943. Cite: https://www.vermeer.com/NA/en/N/about_us/history_of_innovation


 * Please change the sentence under "History" that currently reads "At his request, a local machine shop fabricated a number of these hoists to meet demand" to "Van Gorp Welding, a local machine shop, was able to fill requests for the hoists and meet demand." to improve readability and accuracy. Citation: In Search of a Better Way by Carol Van Klompenburg and Donna Biddle pg 24. I could only find this name in the book, it has been pulled from company archives and is not published on the website. If you cannot use this source, then just remove the name of the company and leave it at "A local machine shop was able to fill requests for the hoists and meet demand."


 * Under "History" Please change the sentences from "In the spring of 1948, it was evident that the unit could be produced and marketed on a larger scale. Consequently, as word spread, Gary (along with his cousin and local banker Ralph Vermeer) started Vermeer Manufacturing Co. Shortly thereafter, they began manufacturing the mechanical hoist in their newly built factory. However, the introduction of competitive hydraulic wagon hoists made it obvious that new products must be developed for the young company to survive.[6]" to "In the fall of 1948, it became evident that the unit could be produced and marketed on a larger scale.[x] Gary (with the help of his cousin and local banker Ralph Vermeer) started Vermeer Manufacturing Co on November 22, 1948.[x] They began manufacturing the mechanical hoist in their newly built factory. With the introduction of competitive hydraulic wagon hoists, it became apparent that new products must be developed for the young company to survive.[6]" to fix errors regarding dates and improve readability. Where I placed the [x]'s please cite https://www.vermeer.com/NA/en/N/about_us/history_of_innovation.


 * Please replace the entire second paragraph under "History" with the following: "That new product came in the 1950s when Vermeer introduced two new machines: a portable PTO-powered hammermill and a self-propelled irrigation system. The Vermeer Pow-R Drive was successful and thousands were sold. Through these early years, other small farm equipment items, such as wagon end-gate seeders and wheel cleaners for row-crop tractors, were designed and manufactured.[6]" to improve readability.


 * Please change the paragraph that begins with "Shortly after" to the following: "Shortly after, the first Pow-R-Stump Cutter was introduced. During a test in 1953, an operator hit the wrong lever on a prototype stump cutter, causing the wheel to cut in an unintended direction. Since it cut five times faster, a new design was developed. Other stump cutters at the time were expensive, cumbersome, and impractical for widespread use. The patented Vermeer stump cutter became the first practical and affordable solution to stump removal.[6]" to improve readability.


 * Please change the paragraph starting with "In 1971" to the following: "In 1971, a friend of Gary Vermeer confided in him that he was planning on quitting the cow-calf business. He was tired of trying to find enough people to help put up his hay. Gary immediately set to work on a one-man-hay system. "I had no idea what it looked like, but we began designing and building," said Gary. The first round baler was ready just 45 days later, forever changing the hay industry." to improve readability. Quote can be found at https://www.vermeerimpact.com/the-game-changers


 * After the paragraph mentioned above, please insert the following paragraph: "In the 1980s, Vermeer built larger and more powerful trenchers than before. These new machines allowed builders to lay an underground pipeline network. These networks connected energy sources to markets around the world." In order to add information about the 80s, something previously missing from the page. Company activity from the 80s can be found at https://www.vermeerimpact.com/the-game-changers.


 * Please change the paragraph beginning with "Vermeer prepared" to the following: "Vermeer prepared for another expansion in 1991 with the introduction of the first Vermeer horizontal directional drill. These directional drills were used to install fiber optic cables during the dot-com boom and worked on road construction and mining projects. By the end of the decade, the NAVIGATOR horizontal directional drilling machine line-up became a market-share leader worldwide." from https://www.vermeerimpact.com/the-game-changers to improve readability and add missing citation.


 * Please change the paragraph beginning "In 2011" to the following; "In 2011, Vermeer experienced its largest sale in the history of the company. The sale, which took place in Australia, included multiple terrain levelers for surface mining. Seven Vermeer T1655s, the largest machine that has ever been manufactured in Iowa, were included.[8]" to improve readability.


 * Please add a new paragraph after the above paragraph that reads: "In 2017, Vermeer revealed a prototype for the world's first self-propelled hay baler. For the first time, Vermeer showed a prototyped machine to customers before the official launch. This prototype, called the ZR5, offers more maneuverability and comfort than the standard tractor and baler combo." to fill in missing information on the timeline. Cite https://www.vermeer.com/NA/en/N/equipment/forage_innovations/zr5 since other source was not acceptable.


 * Please change the paragraph beginning "Today" to the following "As of 2018, Vermeer holds several product and design patents within its line of utility and track trenchers, directional boring systems, tub grinders, tree care equipment, excavation machines, and hay-harvesting products. The company markets over 200 agricultural and industrial products worldwide, and operates 1,500,000 square feet (140,000 m2) of manufacturing plant space." To improve readability, add a solid date instead of using the word today, and update numbers that were out of date.

Thank you for your help. --&#39;&#39;porch projector&#39;&#39; (talk) 17:13, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Reply quotebox with inserted reviewer decisions and feedback 21-MAR-2018
Below you will see where text from your request has been quoted with individual advisory messages placed underneath, either accepting, declining or otherwise commenting upon your proposal(s). Please see Notes section at the bottom of the quotebox for additional information about each request.      Spintendo       17:52, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Hi Thank you for your attention to this page. Do you have any suggestions for approved sources? This is a privately owned company, so dates regarding important events in history are not published by third party sources. I would greatly appreciate your help in updating this page. Thanks. --&#39;&#39;porch projector&#39;&#39; (talk) 18:05, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

Proposed Timeline
Hi again! I understand that my previously requested timeline contained too much anecdotal information. Could we put the following timeline underneath the first paragraph in history?

• 1950s
 * Portable PTO-powered hammermill (Vermeer Pow-R Drive), self-propelled irrigation system, hay conditioner and Pow-R-Stump Cutter are introduced.

• 1960s
 * Vermeer invents the first machine to dig, transport and replace large trees called the TM-700.

• 1970s
 * The first round hay baler was invented by founder Gary Vermeer in 1971.

• 1980s
 * Vermeer begins building large trenchers to lay underground pipelines.

• 1990s
 * The first Vermeer horizontal directional drill is introduced.

• 2000s and beyond
 * In 2017, Vermeer revealed the prototype of the first self-propelled hay baler.

This is all information taken from the company website. As previously mentioned, this information is not published by third party sources. Let me know if this works. Thanks! &#39;&#39;porch projector&#39;&#39; (talk) 20:04, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

Reply 02-APR-2018
I am willing to place the timeline in the article as milestones. On a sidenote, the article's main problem of only using company provided materials remains unsolved. It is not that these non-related materials don't exist; on the contrary, numerous articles in many publications have been, and continue to be published, about Vermeer. A simple perusal of one database turned up the following entries on only 2 pages out of more than 35 pages of search results. A random sampling of these articles are shown below in the extended content section:


 * 1) “Track Trenchers Help Company Keep Pace With Pipeline Work.” Pipeline & Gas Journal, vol. 234, no. 5, 2007, p. 16.   "Many different exploration and production companies have come in, which served to offer more business opportunity," said Scott Driver, president of Driver Pipeline. "We ramped up with more trenchers and more people to do the work." In fact, Driver said the company has been buying rock trenchers steadily since 2000 to keep up with the increased workload. The company has six Vermeer track trencher units - three T 755 units, two T1055 units and a T655.
 * 2) Anonymous. “Vermeer Addresses 'Golden Age.” Tunnels & Tunnelling International', 2015, pp. 44–45.   [Vermeer]'s S3 range 'vents' sound out of the back and upwards through a chimney. A Vermeer engineer said that in some cases this has needed a word of advice with some trial operators, as one or two have been throttling high thinking the machine is not working properly. The noise reductions are that effective. As for the simplicity aspect, he Wisniewski: "The fact is that we just do not have enough operators to function and drive the machines. The key way to mitigate this is to allow operators to be moved around, and for this we tried to achieve commonality between the different sizes of machines. All of the rigs are similar, even from a service perspective they use common components." Jon Kuyers, senior global underground product manager for Vermeer, gave a presentation on business challenges facing the contractor in an age of increasing paperwork. The company's solution is a suite of electronic 'Productivity Tools' called InSite. "There are key office challenges to overcome. Multiple stakeholder demands mean that data-based answers need to be provided, and with paper systems the record-keeping can be haphazard. It's difficult to collect, store and share data. This results in time wasted, lost opportunities, and less time pursuing work." Vermeer's vice president for underground products Dave Wisniewski provides his analysis of [CHRIS DAUM]'s market report: "What you see is that the main demand for underground solutions is situated in the urban environment. Telecommunications and gas distribution are the two primary drivers for the use of this equipment, and that is in your neighbourhood, down your street. And so the challenges of working in built up areas need to be considered as well as the more general challenges facing the industry."
 * 3) Anonymous. “Vermeer Rolls Out New Piercing Tools.” National Driller, vol. 34, Troy, 2013, p. 41.   Vermeer Corporation, based in Pella, Iowa, offers a full line of horizontal directional drilling systems, as well as other products, through a broad network of authorized dealers. [Vermeer]'s line of piercing tools is manufactured by the McLaughlin Group Inc., based in Greenville, S.C. For more information on Vermeer products and services, visit the company's website at www.vermeer.com or email Vermeer at salesinfo@vermeer. com.
 * 4) Staff; “Third Generation Joins Vermeer.” Construction Bulletin, vol. 292, Arlington Heights, 2007, p. 4. Vermeer Manufacturing Company announced the appointment of two family members to its staff. Jason Andringa, son of co-CEO Mary Vermeer-Andringa, joined the company as environmental solutions segment manager in 2005. Allison Van Wyngarden, daughter of co-CEO Bob Vermeer, is the new industrial distribution manager.
 * 5) Staff; “Track Trencher.” Constructioneer, vol. 61, no. 19, 2006, p. 16. The 350-horsepower T858 Commander® from Vermeer Manufacturing Company is a sliding offset trencher.
 * 6) Staff; “Vermeer Announces Website.” Michigan Contractor and Builder, vol. 98, no. 34, 2004, p. 7. Vermeer Manufacturing Company of Pella, Iowa, manufactures a full line of utility and track trenchers, horizontal directional drilling systems, compact excavators, compact skid steers, tree equipment, and agricultural hay harvesting products.
 * 7) Staff; “Vermeer Changes Name.” Construction Bulletin, vol. 293, no. 5, 2008, p. 90. Vermeer Manufacturing Company changed its name to Vermeer Corporation to better reflect its extended operations to several...
 * 8) Staff; “Vermeer of Texas.” Texas Contractor, vol. 154, no. 11, 2006, p. 27. With eight Texas and two Mexico locations, Vermeer Equipment of Texas was recently presented with the Platinum Mark of Excellence award -- the highest recognition given to a dealership within the independent, authorized Vermeer Manufacturing Company industrial equipment network.
 * 9) Staff; “Vermeer Receives highest Honor.” Construction Bulletin, vol. 292, no. 13, 2007, p. 116. Vermeer Sales and Service, Burnsville, Minnesota, received the Platinum Mark of Excellence award, the highest recognition given to a dealership in the Vermeer Manufacturing Company industrial equipment network....
 * 10) Staff; “Vermeer, Ring-O-Matic Announce Strategic Alliance.” Construction, vol. 71, no. 23, 2004, p. 13. Vermeer Manufacturing Company has entered into an exclusive strategic alliance with Ring-O-Matic Manufacturing Company...
 * 11) Staff; “Vermeer/Ring-O-Matic.” Texas Contractor, vol. 152, no. 20, 2004, p. 14. Vermeer Manufacturing Company, a leading underground equipment manufacturer, has entered into an exclusive strategic alliance with Ring-O-Matic Manufacturing Company, a key producer of vacuum excavation equipment, to distribute...

That is but a sampling of the resources which have been published about the company by people other than the company. Granted, not all of these publications are peer reviewed, the gold standard for a reference — but they are clearly a good start. I urge the COI editor to convince Vermeer, a company with considerable resources, to expend some effort to search out these sources for themselves. The solution to getting the information in the article is there, Vermeer needs only to summons the motivation to find it. Regards, 0.82em 23:37, 2 April 2018 (UTC)


 * -Thank you for your help! I will see what I can do. &#39;&#39;porch projector&#39;&#39; (talk) 13:14, 3 April 2018 (UTC)