Talk:Vermin Supreme/Archive 1

Vermin is very real: Video Evidence
hours of footage with the perennial candidate that legally goes by the name Vermin Supreme. http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL517F17FD59B4951A

Satirical? In this video Vermin explains his campaign motives quite well http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd1xWBPHc3U FluxRostrum (talk) 05:19, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Someone should remove the line. "Vermin is the best candidate..." this is not appropriate for an encyclopedia entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.81.137.223 (talk) 18:55, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I've removed it. Thanks for pointing it out! A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 19:16, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Crazy like a Fox?
From: www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2012/jan/9/primary-pranks-paul-ambushed-vermin-supreme:
 * The bearded satirist apparently has been making the rounds here ahead of the Granite State's first-in-the-nation primary and has run for multiple political offices over the years. And this year, his name appears on the presidential ballot.
 * "My name is Vermin Supreme, I'm running of the president of America. I stand for mandatory toothbrushing laws," he said, delivering his on-the-fly stump speech. "I'm a friendly fascist, a tyrant you can trust because I know what is best for you. I am on the ballot here in New Hampshire, and you can vote for me. I am Obama's primary primary challenger. I am challenging him and Ron Paul to a debate and an arm-wrestling match, leg-wrestling match and a panty-wrestling match to decide it all — the presidency of the United States."
 * Asked whether he plans to send troops back into Iraq, Mr. Supreme (Mr. Vermin?) said he wants to send troops "everywhere."
 * "I propose we will invade and we will make that country a state," he said. "So Iraq would be our 51st state, Afghanistan would be 52nd state. and on and on. Once we change these foreigners to Americans, they will certainly love America and we'll will be able to tax them and it will be a wonderful unified United States of the Earth. Thank you."

So is he any crazier than the mainstream advocates of Perpetual War or not? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.70.208.101 (talk) 17:00, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Free ponies
He's got my vote. I want a Fluttershy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.118.52.218 (talk) 01:30, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Vermin Should not be viewed this way
The first line should include that he is an American Politician, and should not include anything mentioning that he is "satirical" Mr. Supreme is a registered Candidate and therefore is not "satirical" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.24.167.8 (talk) 20:26, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * He is described in reliable sources as a "satircal candidate", "satirist", and/or "perfomance artist",  and describes himself as a "fringe candidate", so it appropriate to describe him as such in the article.--JayJasper (talk) 20:38, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Political Views
Added transcript from my blog entry...Vermin Supreme - A Pragmatic Anarchist for President. It's not a final solution...but it's better than not including a single reference to the very serious side of his political satire. In other words, he's not just making fun of the process...he has a very real, sincere, and genuine political message. The article up until now has only offered an extremely superficial portrayal of his political views and as such, has done a huge disservice to the readers of Wikipedia as well as to Vermin Supreme. My solution isn't perfect...but at least it helps readers form their own opinions based on his actual political views. --Xerographica (talk) 01:35, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

removal of extremely long quotation
As the the 400-word quotation transcribed from "Anarchist Runs for President ... since 1988" is a copyright violation *and* can easily be paraphrased, I have removed it and replaced it with a paraphrase. I have also properly cited the video from where it came.

See the following policies:
 * 1) WP:LONGQUOTE: "Extensive quotation of copyrighted text is prohibited" and "a longer quotation should not be used where a shorter quotation would express the same information"
 * 2) QUOTEFARM:"Long quotations crowd the actual article and remove attention from other information."

Each of these policies recommend paraphrasing the lengthy texts. Kingturtle = (talk) 23:45, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Personally, I much prefer hearing it directly from the horse's mouth. But your paraphrase is certainly a whole heck of a lot better than not including any mention of his actual political views.  So thanks for making the effort to paraphrase...rather than just remove...the lengthy quotation.  --Xerographica (talk) 00:38, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. When I removed it originally, I meant no harm. It's just that lengthy quotes are problematic on Wikipedia for a number of reasons. It is always best to summarize. Most sincerely, Kingturtle = (talk) 01:31, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Political Positions
This article needs to include a sourced list of his official political positions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dyerx (talk • contribs) 03:07, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Broken Section
The "Political Views" section contains syntax errors and needs to be fixed. Not sure how to do this myself — Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.115.220.125 (talk) 14:20, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

2012
The 2012 section has waaaay more detail than it needs. Wikipedia doesn't need to record his every appearance, only what's actually notable. -65.26.194.87 (talk) 03:20, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

A note on notability
A note on notability, prompted by the edit summary of this recent edit: Notability says, "These guidelines only outline how suitable a topic is for its own article or list. They do not limit the content of an article or list." (Emphasis copied from the guideline.) — Mudwater (Talk) 07:38, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
 * What does limit the content of the article is that the information must come from reliable secondary sources. -Xcuref1endx (talk) 16:16, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

BLPN Again.2013
Hello, my name is Vermin Supreme.

In regards to alleged 'birth name.' The harm that will result from the continued inclusion of this alleged 'birth name' is considerable, and will not happen on the internet. You may find this hard to believe but there are members of my immediate family who do not appreciate my work. ' Bringing shame to the family name,' is something that does indeed mean something to some. The inclusion of this alleged 'birth name' is creating a headache for me and mine. Vermin Supreme may be well known, but this other entity is obviously ' a little known person.' I should like to keep it that way.

As for the public, I believe they are just as entitled to not know this information, as they are to know it. If somebody has such an aching desire to know, IMHO, they should have to look a little harder than wikipedia. The following is my take on BLP Privacy and Name. Thank you for your discretion and consideration in this matter. WP:BLPPRIVACY

"People increasingly regard their full names and dates of birth as private." I most certainly regard any names other than Vermin Supreme to be private.

"Wikipedia includes full names and dates of birth that have been widely published by reliable sources, or by sources linked to the subject such that it may reasonably be inferred that the subject does not object." This alleged 'birth name' is not "widely published." You need not infer that this subject strenuously objects. Only a handful of references exist and I object to each and every one. I have worked very hard at concealing such a spoiler. Ironically, the inclusion ot this alleged 'birth name' will only create further citations creating a reference feedback loop reinforcing the inclusion.

WP:BLPNAME "When the name of a private individual has not been widely disseminated or has been intentionally concealed, such as in certain court cases or occupations, it is often preferable to omit it, especially when doing so does not result in a significant loss of context."

Once again, I believe the name in question has not been widely disseminated and has been intentionally concealed by myself. There is no loss of context. The widest dissemination of this information is by this wikipedia entry. Ironically, the inclusion ot this alleged 'birth name' will only create further citations creating a reference feedback loop reinforcing the inclusion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.203.65.161 (talk) 20:08, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi, if you have a problem with this article, then I suggest following the paper trail through WP:BLP and also WP:OTRS to indicate that you really are Vermin Supreme. Now I'm sorry to be cynical here, but as an IP address alone, I've no way to tell if you really are, or if you're an impostor – hence the need for WP:OTRS. Andy Dingley (talk) 20:25, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

WP: BLP again HELLO?
Hello I am Vermin Supreme.

The harm to me, that will result from the continued inclusion of this alleged 'birth name' is considerable, and will not happen on the internet. You may find this hard to believe but there are members of my immediate family who do not appreciate my work. ' Bringing shame to the family name,' is something that does indeed mean something to some. The inclusion of this alleged 'birth name' is creating a headache for me and mine. Vermin Supreme may be well known, but this other entity is obviously ' a little known person.' I should like to keep it that way.

As for the public, I believe they are just as entitled to not know this information, as they are to know it. If somebody has such an aching desire to know, IMHO, they should have to look a little harder than wikipedia. The following is my take on BLP Privacy and Name. Thank you for your discretion and consideration in this matter. WP:BLPPRIVACY

"People increasingly regard their full names and dates of birth as private." I most certainly regard any names other than Vermin Supreme to be private.

"Wikipedia includes full names and dates of birth that have been widely published by reliable sources, or by sources linked to the subject such that it may reasonably be inferred that the subject does not object." This alleged 'birth name' is not "widely published." You need not infer that this subject strenuously objects. Only a handful of references exist and I object to each and every one. I have worked very hard at concealing such a spoiler. Ironically, the inclusion ot this alleged 'birth name' will only create further citations creating a reference feedback loop reinforcing the inclusion.

WP:BLPNAME "When the name of a private individual has not been widely disseminated or has been intentionally concealed, such as in certain court cases or occupations, it is often preferable to omit it, especially when doing so does not result in a significant loss of context."

Once again, I believe the name in question has not been widely disseminated and has been intentionally concealed by myself. There is no loss of context. The widest dissemination of this information is by this wikipedia entry. Ironically, the inclusion ot this alleged 'birth name' will only create further citations creating a reference feedback loop reinforcing the inclusion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.203.65.161 (talk) 00:56, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
 * As was previously stated, the best method, due to the issue of you being the article subject and this being a touchy matter, is for you to contact the WP:OTRS team. It's pretty simple and laid out at Contact us - Subjects. But, to recreate it here, you need to send an email to info-en-qwikimedia.org and it should include "both the address or title of your article and specific information on the problems you have with it. Emails are confidential, and only shared between those volunteers who monitor our email addresses."
 * It would be best to send the message from whatever official email you have and have stated to use elsewhere on your personal websites. The point of this is to prove that you are who you say you are (since you could just be a random person and we've had hoaxes like this done before) and to also have an official record of your request held by the OTRS team so if this issue ever comes up again in the future or something similar, it can be dealt with swiftly. Silver  seren C 07:58, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi there, I'm on the OTRS team. We've received a request from the subject to not have his birth name disclosed on this page as he considers it a violation of his personal privacy. I am confident that the request is valid and from the subject. L Faraone  15:15, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
 * This would seem to be arising as an issue on the Democratic Party presidential candidates, 2016 page TMLutas (talk) 10:18, 28 April 2015 (UTC) Correction: it looks like he's been moved out, not renamed, my bad. TMLutas (talk) 10:23, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Removal of birth name
After reviewing the 2013 discussion above, and the OTRS notice at the top of this page, I have removed the subject's alleged birth name from the article (though it continues to appear in at least two cited sources).  General Ization  Talk   00:53, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 August 2016
Vermin Supreme's real name is Ken Stevenson. 204.111.249.5 (talk) 00:30, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. See above. —&thinsp;JJMC89&thinsp; (T·C) 01:01, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 September 2016
Could somebody change the Libertarian Party's hyperlinks from "|party = [Libertarian]" to "|party = [Libertarian Party (United States)|Libertarian Party]" to correspond towards the American Libertarian Party? 108.45.29.72 (talk) 01:28, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done KGirlTrucker81huh? what I'm been doing 06:06, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

2016 primary results
According to The Green Papers, Supreme placed 17th among Democrats in the primary with 268 votes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.2.38.14 (talk) 03:49, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Sources for December 2017 "right to pony" demonstration
Supreme organized a pony demonstration in New Hampshire when she was there touring to promote her What Happened book. I am just sorting the sources right now but there was some legal action to block the demonstration. Supreme sued the city, won that lawsuit, and did the demonstration.

The AP picked up the story and from there versions of it went into newspapers in perhaps half the major cities in the United States. I think that what follows below is all the original source material because these sources are from people who were actually in New Hampshire at the time. At a glance it seems that the other sources derived their stories from these.  Blue Rasberry  (talk)  14:26, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I attempted to summarize these publications in a "right to pony" section in the article.  Blue Rasberry   (talk)  18:29, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

Why the boot hat?
Any explanation? I'm assuming there is some reason behind it, however contrived. Andy Dingley (talk) 09:37, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

I was told that it originated due to sheer practicality on a cold day he had an extra galosh and no hat. He got so many comments he decided to keep it.RichardBond (talk) 10:15, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

Vermin Supreme 2020 run
He's run in the last few elections. Should we create a 2020 section for him? He's likely to be a part of it. I should add if you google Vermin Supreme 2020 there's just enough speculation about it to get a candidate like Vermin running. SkullKnight1189284 (talk) 21:47, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. We might guess that a perennial candidate who seems to always run will do so again, but we don't put that here until we have reliable sources noting that it actually has happened. Jonathunder (talk) 21:52, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 January 2020
Bold Supreme's row in the two election tables in order to make it easier to locate 207.108.93.82 (talk) 20:10, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done I had a hard time finding him amongst the chaff of these tables, as well. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 04:50, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

First name
Are you sure that Supreme's dad gave him the name Vermin? 122.60.80.64 (talk) 03:54, 8 July 2020 (UTC)


 * The activist legally changed his name to Vermin Love Supreme in the 1990s.(read the article) So, while his father did not give him the name, it is his 'real name'. -Thespündragon 04:50, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Is this a Joke?
A man who wears a boot as hat!? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 16AdityaG09 (talk • contribs) 16:17, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
 * What about him? Cpotisch (talk) 23:36, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Real name
Why are we hiding his real name? Onetwothreeip (talk) 09:27, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Vermin Supreme is his real name now. Apparently he asked us to remove his birth name, although it is reported in some sources. Jonathunder (talk) 23:55, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
 * We do that? Just modify an article about a person at their request?  I was always told the subject of the article should have no say in it.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.215.78.126 (talk) 00:33, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * If there is a valid reason for the removal, yes, we do. Especially when the request has been made to OTRS and validated. Review WP:BLP ++Lar: t/c 15:59, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

BLPN
I've opened a discussion at BLPN on the removal of the subject's birth name. Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 05:11, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
 * This link is no longer valid — Preceding unsigned comment added by Asplode (talk • contribs) 06:00, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Here's a link to the archive Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard/Archive121 that has the discussion. Not much there. ++Lar: t/c 16:13, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

Birth Name Again?
As has been brought up many times and even referred to WP:OTRS (2013032510000593) (who agreed), Vermin's birth name should NOT be included on this page. It is 100% irrelevant to the content of the article and he has requested that it not be added. ChrisRogers4Vermin (talk) 15:55, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm trying to validate the OTRS ticket. (I used to have OTRS access a while back, not sure if I still do) If it checks out, I'll be removing the dead name, as a previously uninvolved admin able to do so. If the OTRS ticket does check out, and I do make the change, reverting me would be wheel warring and going against OTRS to boot. Not a good idea. ++Lar: t/c 16:10, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Note this revision: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Vermin_Supreme&diff=prev&oldid=548156637 - a member of the OTRS team stated the ticket is valid, and that the name needs to be removed. Absent evidence that this ticket has been rescinded, seems pretty clear to me. ++Lar: t/c 16:17, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I have also raised the issue at Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard and notified User:Billinghurst ++Lar: t/c 16:46, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

This has been discussed before and the OTRS ticket appears to have been processed by LFaraone. The birth name should be removed again per WP:BLPNAME as this apparently affects members of his family. --AFBorchert (talk) 20:47, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Change to remove birth name has been made. I left the article protection unchanged so it will expire in due course, I expect. (it doesn't have much longer to run, feel free to ping me (or presumably, Billinghurst) if need be). ++Lar: t/c 22:14, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

The ability to censure a persons actual name is unusual on what is supposed to be an encyclopedic resource. I won't put it in myself but I have actually had Vermin Supreme as a lunch guest in my home. At the time I was living with another street performer who knew him. One possible reason why it might have been hidden is that he is a junior. Not everyone in his family had accepted his performance persona. RichardBond (talk) 22:17, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

Vermine Supreme Website
The website verminsupreme2020.com is now an Indonesian (I think?) online gambling site. It seems the campaign team opted to let the rights to the domain expire.

Instead of directing readers to Indonesian slots, should I add an Internet Archive link to the 2020 website? If so, for what time stamp? I'm not certain what the Wikipedia policy is for website links that aren't dead but instead irrelevant.

Alternatively, the website verminsupreme.com (linked by Vermin Supreme's twitter) is a relevant external link, but only shows a coming soon note.

I will post any additional updates I find in the future - perhaps a Vermin Supreme 2024 website will go live, or there will be updates to verminsupreme.com.

As always, staying neutral and notable Trogdor314 (talk) 21:39, 24 May 2023 (UTC) Trogdor314 (talk) 21:39, 24 May 2023 (UTC)


 * I would support adding the Internet Archive link to the 2020 website, though I don't know what time stamp would be appropriate and I am also uncertain concerning the WP policy you referred to. If this isn't doable, then the 2020 website link should be removed rather than directing readers to an Indonesian slots site. Sal2100 (talk) 22:57, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty new around here, but it seems to me that there is no strict policy concerning timestamps, so long as the content of the archived page is appropriate. I would find it best to use the last recorded timestamp before the domain expired, but I don't think using an earlier version would be objectionable. Doughbo (talk) 00:40, 25 May 2023 (UTC)