Talk:Vermouth

storing vermouth
does vermouth need to be refrigerated after opening?
 * I was wondering the same thing, as well as how long vermouth typically lasts after it's opened.  KenFehling (talk) 21:51, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
 * no it does not need to be refrigerated after opening --94.36.80.16 (talk) 21:21, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * For 30 years, I've not refrigerated it. It lasts quite nicely. Frankly, the worst that can happen is it turns to vinegar, which isn't really possible, due to the sugar content. As an example, I have bottles that were opened a decade ago on the shelf and are QUITE fine.76.98.121.53 (talk) 04:21, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

I created a subheading in the Modern Use Section for the storage of Vermouth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oskar0430 (talk • contribs) 16:41, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Looks like advertising
Looks like a plug for a brand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.5.245.62 (talk) 23:22, 17 May 2008 (UTC) This section needs to be edited and possibly made into an additional subsection to maybe discuss the different variety of vermouth out there, rater than name dropping throughout the article. Possibly pulling the different sentences/citations and creating a section out of that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mplsstylist (talk • contribs) 00:28, 18 November 2013 (UTC) '

Agreed. Having pictures of specific brands and then using them as examples throughout the article( with links) is advertising. Leaving the pictures but removing the links. Lugan2k (talk) 08:41, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Purpose of Herbs
The article says that the herbs are introduced "to mask the flavor of inferior wine," but this seems quite ignorant of the cultural purpose of aromatized drinks generally, akin to the statement I often heard growing up that the chief use of spices in the tropics is "to mask the flavor of spoiled meat".

Spices and herbs often have medicinal and psychoactive properties perceived as "tonic" (if not "legitimately" medicinal) to their ingesters, and they are sought out as food in their own right. This is indeed the main reason I (and many of the people in cultures that make these drinks) drink apertifs, cocktails and herbal digestifs. It might be more correct, but only slightly more, to say that here it is the wine that is the vehicle for the delicious herbs and spices, because their flavors are sometimes better transmitted in alcoholic solutions than purely aqueous ones. What I'm getting at is, the whole package is important.

In any case it makes more sense to use a pedestrian wine for these aromatic concoctions, just as you would use a lower grade of olive oil in a situation where the delicacy of extra virgin oil would be lost. But it's not about masking, any more than the curry in my masala is there to mask the flavor of chickpeas, folks. If someone wants to drink inferior wine, there are a lot cheaper options than proper vermouth. Nimmolo (talk) 20:29, 13 May 2011 (UTC)


 * So, chefs worldwide spice their dishes because the meat is spoiled or to hide an ingredient you do not like? Wrong! Spices are added, ALSO, to ENHANCE flavor. In the case of vermouth, they add flavors used in various cocktails, but I also cook with it, to enhance the dish and personally enjoy the flavor of the spices. Did one mull wine or even cider to hide a bad taste? Or to enhance and warm in the winter? But then, I'm a reformed chef and KNOW why spices are used and it's NOT to hide the taste of chickpeas (which I personally LIKE).Wzrd1 (talk) 04:30, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Article rewrite and expansion
I have rewritten and expanded the article here. Any interested parties, please feel welcome to review it and make any suggestions. In a day or so I'll transfer it over to this article, then nominate it for Good Article consideration. Cla68 (talk) 05:57, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Done. Cla68 (talk) 12:16, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Subjective/dismissive statement
Cla68 and other recent writers have vastly improved the article since I last worked on it last six weeks ago, and I'm glad. There's still one remnant of the deprecatory attitude to vermouth that incited me to edit the article originally, however.

I find the following sourced statement subjective and debatable; I don't think it should lead the section on "Production, Ingredients and Flavors" and I've moved it to the bottom of the section, although I would prefer to delete it. It may be relevant to reference the attitude of English-language wine critics to vermouth, but it needs to be set in that context:


 * According to Stuart Walton and Brian Glover, vermouth "is as far removed from the natural produce of the vine as it is possible for a fortified wine to get." They add that there is no special connoisseurship of vermouth, as it is an "everyday product made to a consistent and unchanging recipe by each manufacturer."

Although vermouth does not fluctuate noticeably with vintage, neither does most sherry, marsala, porto, etc., and nobody would write in an article that there is "no special connoisseurship" of fortified or botanically flavored wines as a class, or even separately. Furthermore there are hundreds of variations of vermouth recipes and four major differences in style, so some level of connoisseurship seems possible (and desirable, since vermouth can be expensive). They're not all the same.

It is also extremely debatable whether vermouth is "as far removed from the natural produce of the vine as it is possible to get;" there are plenty of bottled wine products in which vintage, grape variety and terroir are undetectable. I really don't like anything about the quote. :) Nimmolo (talk) 19:35, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't completely agree with the quote either. Walton and Glover's book is a useful and comprehensive guide to alcoholic beverages, but I think their opinions in the book are often a little snarky and snooty.  I included the quote in the article because it counts as an expert opinion, which helps provide depth to the article.  I've got a couple more books on order and hopefully will be able to add some more detail and opinion to the article. Cla68 (talk) 00:40, 5 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Perhaps someone can find ANOTHER opinion that is based in a different vein? PERSONALLY, I disagree with the article, as it is relating things like the taste of beef that is plain and unseasoned vs beef with spices added to flavor it. Not that I especially love beef, indeed, to me, it's tasteless. But, spiced properly, it's quite nice. But, THAT is OR and a personal opinion. Like my preference to goat, lamb, sherry, vermouth, port, madeira, etc. All plain, spiced, mulled, whatever.Wzrd1 (talk) 04:35, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

New world vermouths
While it's reasonable that the article should document these, the vast majority of vermouth consumed in the world is Italian and French, even in the US. The present emphasis is wrong. --Ef80 (talk) 01:33, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

New world vermouth
imbue is a company that makes more than one product. I was initially excited to see the brand on Wikipedia but there are some mistakes. We currently make two products, imbue Bittersweet vermouth, and a second imbue Petal & Thorn, and aperitif wine. There is much more information on our website at imbuecellars.com. Also we are produced in the small town of Gaston, OR, not portland. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.39.134.106 (talk) 21:40, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Header
Changer "Turin, Italy" to "Torino, Italy"  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oskar0430 (talk • contribs) 17:05, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

I have edited the header in many ways. I removed the citation for Vermouth 101 altogether. It is lacking in verifiable sources. I replaced it with references already provided in the article that said that are verifiable and support the claim.

I changed the date in the second sentence from "1757" to "mid to late 18th Century" as there was no citation for the specific date. Many citations exist for either 1757 or 1786. This also fits better with the history section which focuses on the 1786 date and Carpano but doesn't mention Cinzano and 1757.

I updated the history given in this section. It was misrepresenting the commercial use of Vermouth. It skipped over its use as an aperitif and went from Medicinal straight to it's use as a Cocktail ingredient. I reworded and added citations to better reflect this part of it's history.

Corrected punctuation.

Removed the citation in the last paragraph. Boston Apothecary was cited twice in the same sentence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oskar0430 (talk • contribs) 16:52, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

I added citations where needed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oskar0430 (talk • contribs) 16:25, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Etymology and History
The first half of the last paragraph has been edited to better reflect the modern history of Vermouth (last 18th century on). Added citations as well. The last part of this paragraph was not accurate. Vermouth had experienced a slump after prohibition that continued after WWII, but has seen a resurgence recently with craft bartenders. I reworded the last 2 sentences to better reflect that and added citations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oskar0430 (talk • contribs) 16:48, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

I added to the last paragraph under Etymology and History to cover Vermouth's popularity in the Martini in 1950s, because the page's history seemed to end in 1800s. Ergalv92 (talk) 04:02, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Cooking
I added detail to further describe Vermouth's use in cooking. Ergalv92 (talk) 04:06, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Vermouth
Added bit about Vermouth's versatility in first paragraph. Ergalv92 (talk) 04:38, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Overall this page could do with some minor tweaking to add depth of knowledge to sections that may be lacking. Areas such as cooking could be rewritten in order to add information that may be useful to an individual who is seeking a recipe with Vermouth in it. ZacStewart00 (talk) 23:30, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Vermouth Day section: remove?
There is no real information about Vermouth Day and no citations, it says it happens every year on March 21st but was invented in 2020, also the grammar is very bad. This section does not need to be here or needs radically re-writing. OvertonWindowEdit (talk) 19:51, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

XX's Century
The end of this sentence needs revision: "The drink is more popular in other parts of Europe (such as Italy, France and Spain, where it is often consumed by itself as an apéritif) and Argentina, influenced by a huge italian immigration on early XX's century." I might assume that "in the early 20th century" is intended, but since I can't be sure, I am reluctant to revise the sentence myself. 66.91.36.8 (talk) 06:30, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

Why is quinine listed as a spice?
Even the link within the article leads to the malaria medication. It's not herbal, it's a manufactured drug. I'm pretty sure it's not common to put anti-malaria drugs in alcohol, especially considering said drug has some very unpleasant side effects such as migraine, vomiting, and other symptoms of GI distress. 2601:647:6400:F3E0:6DEB:7E50:8642:E5 (talk) 17:53, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

What is Vermouth
What is vermouth 2409:40F2:1028:6A69:8000:0:0:0 (talk) 20:57, 15 February 2024 (UTC)