Talk:Vesak/Archive 1

Vesak
Actually Buddha Poornima (or Buddha Purnima) requires a separate article, a redirection from there to Vesak, does not present a comprehensive content. Buddha Poornima and Buddha Jayanti are synonymous, and these cannot be exactly equated with Vesak to which this redirection takes the reader. I am studying the matter further and will do the necessary edits reflecting the reality and the correct position. Comments are invited from the interested editors. --Bhadani 03:32, 31 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Can you elaborate on the distinction? - Nat Krause 07:56, 6 October 2005 (UTC)


 * To begin with, Vesak is a derivative from the Sanskrit word Vaisakh, a month of traditional Hindu calendar. Vaisakh (with different spellings) or Vesak denotes a full lunar month, whereas Buddha Purnima is a particular day of the month, which is the full moon day, rather call it the night of full moon. Purnima is a Sanskrit word and a word used in many other languages of north India, and the meaning of Purnima is the full moon “day” – actually, the night of the full moon. Thus, Buddha Purnima means  a particular Purnima associated with Buddha. In a year there shall be as many Purnimas as the lunar months, and there are other special Purnimas also – like Guru Purnima, when sage Vyasa was born. Redirection from Budha Purnima to Vesak is not proper. For a person not very familiar with Indian culture and religions originating in India, the distinction can be told in very simple words: a redirection from Buddha Purnima to Vesak is as funny as making a redirection from X’mas to December. --Bhadani 15:40, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Vesak derives from the word Vaisakh. That's true. However, it's a) a different word, and b) now the common name for the festival in question. If the common name of Christmas was something like Decembron (which is not too hard to imagine), then it would make perfect sense to redirect X’mas to Decembron. If you'd like, perhaps we can move this article to Wesak; that seems to be approximately as common in English. - Nat Krause(Talk!) 00:23, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Vesak is actually the Sinhalese word for "Vaisakh" and it is now the commenly used word by Buddhists to refer to the full moon day of the month of May. It is "Buddha Purnima." - —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.101.227.10 (talk • contribs) October 30, 2005
 * "Pathum (from the name of the first month in the Hindu calendar, Vaisakha)" - now is it me or does that, independent of what you're talking about, just make no sense? 81.108.42.219 19:00, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
 * The article was vandalised by an anonymous user, changing the word Vesak to Pathum. - Nat Krause(Talk!) 01:23, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
 * This page uses some of the same language as found on a [ http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=6,4043,0,0,1,0 Buddhist TV page]. Bosuncookie 00:55, 30 May 2007 (UTC)bosuncookie

Neutrality -- eight precepts
That list of eight precepts is not common to all Buddhists. Specifically, precepts 6, 7 and 8 are not listed by several Buddhist teachers and masters.


 * See also Five Precepts, Eight Precepts, and Ten Precepts --Octra Bond (talk) 11:21, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Capitalization
As a follower of Buddhism, I was exploring around to see what materials there were on Wikipedia when I came across this article. However, I was a little bit concerned about using capitalized pronouns when referring to the Buddha. My understanding was that capitalizing pronouns was generally a Christian thing, and that under no circumstances was writing about the Buddha to be formatted this way. I have been searching for an online reference but so far have not found one. All of my numerous Buddhist books avoid this formatting, but obviously it would be difficult to show them online and I am not sure if they would be widely available as reference sources in general.

There are many different "types" of Buddhism, some of which border on becoming monotheistic wrt their form of worship, so I am not sure if a particular form capitalizes pronouns, or if the article was written by someone following a more Christian format. In a way capitalizing pronouns could be considered disrespectful of the teachings of the Buddha, as he believed that modesty and finding ones own way were paramount. It is my intent to remove the capitalized pronouns in the future to more properly reflect what I understand to be normal formatting for pronouns referring to the Buddha, unless someone can show me a compelling reason not to. I'd appreciate comments about this. I know some may consider this a minor issue but it does cause some concerns and conflicts for me and my beliefs.--CokeBear 03:55, 12 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Most of this article as it stands is not really a Wikipedia article. What I mean is, it was added by one anonymous user and it has never really been edited to Wikipedi style. I don't know of any other Wikipedia articles that capitalise pronouns in reference to the Buddha. - Nat Krause(Talk!) 04:11, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Wikifying
I've done a lot of copyediting and wikifying, namely creating the Holiday Infobox, and linkifying the article. There is still work to be done, but it has at least a basic level of adherance to the MOS now. I'll work on it more later, but I'd appreciate some fact checking from people who know more than I about the holiday, namely, the dates of the holiday in future years (inside the infobox template), and a better image for the infobox. Peace. (and have a happy Vesak!) Phidauex 18:03, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Date Chart
Could someone contribute Vesak date chart on Gregorian calendar? I want to see the dates in 10 years backwards and forwards. --Octra Bond (talk) 11:26, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Never mind. Now I have the book of century calendar for this. th:วันวิสาขบูชา --Octra Bond (talk) 09:48, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Why are there differing dates for Vesak/Wesak in 2009?
I'm not sure Tibetan Saga Dawa should necessarily continue to be redirected to Vesak, since the Tibetan calendar differs from that of other Asian countries and the date of Saga Dawa is frequently off by a month from the celebration of "Buddha's Day" in other countries or cultures. At the very least, a note should be made somewhere that the Tibetan Saga Dawa celebration frequently occurs on a different date from other culture's celebrations. Ronhenryithaca (talk) 14:18, 21 April 2011 (UTC).

When checking astronomical data for the full moon in May of 2009, the 9th day of May is given. However when checking calendar dates for the Buddhist holiday of Vesak, the 2nd of May is given as the date. Arion 3x3 (talk) 15:28, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I believe that the date is fixed not by direct lunar observance, but by the local observance of the Indian lunar-solar calendar in various Buddhist countries. It's observed on different days in different countries as a result of local variations (and the two Thai sects differ on certain days of Uposatha by one day).  Local observances are also influenced by the schedule of the work week- temples in America often have their festivals on the Saturday or Sunday following or preceding the full moon to enable people to visit the temple.  --Clay Collier (talk) 06:04, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I very much appreciate your information. However, regarding having the festival on the "Saturday or Sunday following or preceding the full moon to enable people to visit the temple" - both May 2 and May 9 are on Saturdays in 2009 - so why is there the discrepancy regarding those dates? Arion 3x3 (talk) 16:09, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Image:2552 calendar thai.jpg My Thai lunar calendar tells May 8. (Why not 9, Mr Collier have told.) May 2 is just a half moon day. (See column 2) --Octra Bond (talk) 09:49, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Importance in Hinduism
I find it astonishing when people play down the importance of Gautama Buddha in Hinduism. Buddh Purnima is a popular festival among Hindus and is celebrated in many parts of India. Yet, the word Hinduism or Hindu is not even mentioned once in this article. --Incidious (talk) 14:09, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, the article needs to address Buddha Purnima in India and among Hindus. It is often called the "thrice-blessed day" by Hindus. Devadaru (talk) 05:03, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
 * So find a good source for it. Mitsube (talk) 07:52, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Name
Given that this holiday is important in all Buddhist traditions, it seems inappropriate for the article to be located under its Sinhalese name. I propose that it be moved to Vesākha - the proper Pali name. This is of course common to all Theravada traditions, and it is virtually identical with the Sanskrit variant found in Mahayana traditions. Not perfect, but better than locating the article with the word used only by Sinhalese.Sylvain1972 (talk) 00:54, 22 February 2010 (UTC)


 * You are right. Mitsube (talk) 06:43, 22 February 2010 (UTC)


 * This is ridiculous. I actually am a Buddhist. In fact, I'm a Theravada Buddhist. No Buddhist I know refers to it as Vesakha. Any quick Google search will reveal that "Vesak" is far more commonly used among English-speaking Buddhists. It's like insisting that Easter and Christmas be called by their "proper" Latin names. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.206.158.64 (talk) 19:28, 22 May 2010 (UTC)


 * No, it really isn't like that, because Easter and Christmas are English terms, which neither Vesak nor Vesakha are. There is no convention in English yet, and therefore it becomes necessary to pick the most universal term among the dozens of variants that are used in different countries. The fact that Vesak gets more hits is indicative only of the fact that the Sri Lankan celebrations are more prominent than those in other countries. Many of the editors (including myself) are Buddhists - that is really neither here nor there, but for what it's worth, my sangha uses Vaiśākha. Sylvain1972 (talk) 14:16, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


 * It's sometimes called Buddha Day. Peter jackson (talk) 09:09, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

OTD
Per the rules at WP:OTD, this article is going to be omitted from Selected anniversaries/May 17 if the maintenance tags are still up at that time. There are twelve days to go, so please add more references posthaste. Thanks.  howcheng  {chat} 17:03, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Move opposed
I'm reversing this move - an inadequate amount of time was given on the review, given that this has been contested in the past, and little consensus was formed - only two votes. As Ninly notes, the disparity is less than was originally represented. Further, many of the Vesak hits refer specifically to the celebration in Sri Lanka, not to the holiday internationally which is the subject of this article. The Pali is more universal and hence more appropriate for that purpose.Sylvain1972 (talk) 16:30, 2 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Since the subject has been re-opened, I'm opposed to any use of foreign terms when there is an acceptable English substitute - which there is in this case: it's Buddha Day. I propose that the article be retitled Buddha Day, and that all the confusing alternative - multiple versions of Wesak; Jayant(h)i; Poornima; Hanamatsuri - simply be redirected to the English name. I notice that happens in Google search already. Mzilikazi1939 (talk) 18:03, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


 * The article should stay titled "Vesak" as this is the most common name used for this festival. Google hits for the search word Vesak number more that 1 900 000. This far outnumbers any of the other terms used. For example the term "Vesakha" has only 32 000 hits in comparison. Vesak and its variant spelling Wesak are the most common terms used by far. The term Vesak itself has been used in a lot of publications. It is also the term used by the World Fellowship of Buddhists and the United Nations. The Pali term is not more universal, as Pali is the language of the Theravadans -- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.169.33.54 (talk) 12:41, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Google hits are not a good indication, given that a large number of them refer specifically to celebrations in Sri Lanka, where the Sinhalese form would be expected. But this article is not about only the Vesakha celebration in Sri Lanka. A more universal term is needed.Sylvain1972 (talk) 16:23, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Google is the most frequently used search engine and many Wikipedia articles use the number of Google hits as a measure of how widely used a particular term is when there are conflicts over different spellings or terms themselves. Clearly, the term Vesak is by far the most widely used term for what is known as Vaisakha in Pali especially in English language articles from across the world and not only those from Sri Lanka (If you search for Vesak in google there is only one link to an article from Sri Lanka on the first page and none on the second). As mentioned before it is also the term used by the United Nations [ see http://www.unvesak.org/ and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_-MMJclKx0 ] and therefore accepted by the international community consisting of both Buddhist majority and non-Buddhist countries. Other religious entities like the Vatican also use the term Vesak [ see: http://www.ucanews.com/2012/04/04/vatican-issues-vesak-message/ ] in their official correspondence. Vesakha, in comparison, is hardly "a more universal term" as you claim. It is, in fact, a term that is rarely if ever used. On another note, the Buddhist flag was also designed in Sri Lanka but today it is flown in many Buddhist majority countries of all denominations all over the world. The fact that it originated from Sri Lanka does not detract from the fact that it has been accepted as being representative of the Buddhist religion. Similarly, the term Vesak may have also originated from Sri Lanka, but that does detract from the fact that it is the most widely used term in the English language for that sacred day of the Buddhists in the month of May. 120.154.41.38 (talk) 05:46, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Vesak and enlightenment and nirvana
Hi, editors!

I'm not a Buddhist, nor a Buddhist expert, not a Wikipedia editor, just an interested person living in Thailand who noticed this...

I think you will find that the equation of nirvana with enlightenment is incorrect? In the article: "...commemorates the birth, enlightenment (nirvāna), and death (Parinirvāna) of Gautama Buddha".

Certainly, in Thailand here they are not equated at all: Nirvana in Thai is นิพพาน (parinirvana ปรินิพพาน), and enlightenment ตรัสรู้ (by its sound, tratsaru). As a reasonably authoritative reference, on the Thai Wikipedia Vesak (Visakhabucha)page https://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/วันวิสาขบูชา we find "ในพระพุทธศาสนา 3 เหตุการณ์ด้วยกัน คือ การประสูติ ตรัสรู้ และปรินิพพานของพระพุทธโคดม": "in Buddhism 3 events together namely birth, enlightenment [ตรัสรู้], and death of Buddha" (death and passing to nirvana of the Buddha, not the common term for death). In addition, Thai-language dictionaries (such as, for example, the Royal Institute dictionary) make it clear that "ตรัสรู้" does in fact mean what we understand by the English word "enlightenment", not a special translation in the context of Buddhism, and certainly not the same as "nirvana".

Seems to me this calls for a revision? ...but I'll leave that to you experts! In particular, I do not know the term for "enlightenment", to replace the current "nirvana", in Pali or Sanskrit or any other language except the ตรัสรู้ of Thai and the giác ngộ of Vietnamese.

Best from Phayao province,

- Ken Crismier (kenthuhuong@yahoo.com)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved to Vesak. Favonian (talk) 21:19, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Vesākha → Vesak – The page was previously moved from Vesak to Vesākha based on the argument that there is no widely-accepted English spelling for the name. However, the online Macmillan Dictionary does has an entry for Vesak, and the United Nations resolution on the international recognition of the day of Vesak also uses that spelling. Google book search returns over 8,000 hits for Vesak, versus one for Vesākha. I suggest that the article be renamed back to Vesak, since it is the overwhelmingly predominant spelling of the term in English texts. Paul_012 (talk) 18:30, 6 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't have a strong opinion on this either way, but note that a Google Books search for "Vesakha" (without the diacritic) does return over 900 hits. / ninly ( talk ) 20:23, 6 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Support. The Concise Oxford Dictionary of World Religions gives the proposed form. Britannica and A Dictionary of Buddhism give "Wesak", which certainly doesn't support the current form. Kauffner (talk) 11:58, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Support Use English orthography for English language articles whenever possible. If there is no particular English language name, choose one that uses English orthography and isn't much rarer than any other. 70.24.247.54 (talk) 05:57, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No, No, NO!!!
Buddhist New Year redirects to Wesak. Can somebody please fix this? Wesak is not and has never been the Buddhist New Year in any country.

I won't cite sources but am a certified Buddhist tracer who has studied at the feet of over 80 of the world's most prominent Buddhist teachers of all traditions for over 43 years. I am a source. But if you check the pages for Songkran, Tet and Losar, you will find Vesak is not the New Year.

Thanks Folks!

Thomas Kent — Preceding unsigned comment added by Indigocat (talk • contribs) 07:28, 7 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Although different schools of Buddhism use different calendars, at least until 1941 some schools marked the start of the Buddhist epoch at Wesak. Please see Buddhist_calendar. Shouting doesn't make it otherwise. What might make it otherwise are reliable sources.--Shantavira|feed me 14:48, 10 May 2016 (UTC)