Talk:Victims of the Night of the Long Knives

Books on the subject
In expanding the article I've relied on Richard J. Evans' The Third Reich in Power, recently published in 2005, which the Atlantic Monthly called a "wonder of synthesis and acute judgment...the definitive study for at least a generation." The New York Times Book Review said "Evans has done a great service simply in digesting the mountain of recent scholarship on the Nazis...," and The Boston Globe calls the book "a work drawn from from a mountain of scholarship..." The citations Evans uses are primarily original sources in German, and includes much recent scholarship that earlier writers did not have access to.

This of course does not mean that the article could not benefit from other sources. However, when there is a conflict between sources (although these are few), I've tended to defer to Evans.--Mcattell 16:32, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


 * What I'm trying to say here is that some sources are much better than others. The best sources in English language for this event are those by historians Richard J. Evans, Ian Kershaw, and Alan Bullock.  Most web pages on this subject are shot through with errors.--Mcattell 16:56, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Victims
I have added some pictures of some of the more prominent murder victims of that night. 86.186.153.39 (talk) 12:39, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Uncited material in need of citations
I am moving the following material here until it can be properly supported with reliable, secondary citations, per WP:V, WP:NOR, WP:IRS, WP:PSTS, et al. [ This diff] shows where it was in the article. Remember that you cannot cite one Wikipedia article as a source in another, as that is circular sourcing. Nightscream (talk) 20:50, 2 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Otto Ballerstedt, former Chief of the "Bayernbund", a secessionist political group in Bavaria, responsible for putting Hitler in prison for a month in 1922 after he had physically attacked Ballerstedt during a rally
 * Herbert von Bose, associate of Franz von Papen
 * Ferdinand von Bredow, close associate of Kurt von Schleicher
 * Georg von Detten, member of the Reichstag, department chief of the highest SA-leadership
 * Karl Ernst, member of the Reichstag, leader of the SA-lower group East
 * Hans Joachim von Falkenhausen, chief of staff of Georg von Detten. Brother of General Alexander von Falkenhausen, head of the military government in Belgium in 1940–44 during its German occupation.
 * Alexander Glaser, lawyer
 * Hans Hayn, member of the Reichstag, SA-group leader of Sachsen
 * Karl-Günther Heimsoth, physician, publicist, politician
 * Edmund Heines, SA-senior group leader in Breslau
 * Oskar Heines, younger brother of Edmund Heines
 * Peter von Heydebreck, member of the Reichstag, SA-group leader
 * Anton von Hohberg und Buchwald, SS Obersturmführer, the only SS victim, killed on the orders of Obergruppenführer von dem Bach Zelewski
 * Edgar Julius Jung, lawyer, author of the "Marburg speech" of Franz von Papen, Catholic Action worker
 * Gustav Ritter von Kahr, former prime minister of Bavaria, Member of Triumvirate who ruled Bavaria during the Beer Hall Putsch
 * Dr. Kuno Kamphausen, architect, member of the Zentrum political party
 * Eugen von Kessel, former officer and police captain
 * Erich Klausener, leader of the police department in the Prussian ministry of internal affairs, president of Berlin's Catholic Action group.
 * Hans-Karl Koch, member of the Reichstag, SA-general in the group of Westmark
 * Fritz von Krausser, member of the Reichstag, chief the leading office of the OSAF
 * Adalbert Probst, the national director of the Catholic Youth Sports Association (German:Deutsche Jugendkraft-Sportverbands)
 * Hans Ramshorn, member of the Reichstag, SA-general in Oberschlesien and chief of police of Gleiwitz
 * Ernst Röhm, SA-chief of staff
 * Paul Röhrbein, SA-captain, leader of the first SA of Berlin
 * Erich Schiewek, SA-man from Breslau, accompanied Heines to Bad Wiessee as substitute adjutant
 * Kurt von Schleicher, former Chancellor of Germany
 * Elisabeth von Schleicher, wife of Kurt von Schleicher
 * Willi Schmid, the music critic of the Münchener Neueste Nachrichten, a Munich newspaper (killed in a case of mistaken identity)
 * August Schneidhuber, member of the Reichstag, chief of police of Munich
 * Johann Konrad Schragmüller, member of the Reichstag, chief of police of Magdeburg
 * Emil Sembach, member of the Reichstag, ex-SS-general
 * Father Bernhard Stempfle, defrocked priest, former co-prisoner in Landsberg, Bavaria, and by few sources considered to have been one of the editors of Mein Kampf
 * Gregor Strasser, former high-ranking Nazi party member. Hitler was godfather to his children
 * Maximilian "Max" Vogel, chauffeur of Ernst Röhm
 * Gerd Voß, lawyer
 * Alexander Zweig, a Jewish doctor from Hirschberg
 * Jeanette Zweig, wife of Alexander Zweig (contrary to some accounts, she herself was not Jewish by birth)
 * Ernestine Zoref, Housewife and mistress to SA supporter Baron Paul Edmund von Hahn


 * Ah, so this is the reason there isn't an actual list here, of who was killed? Ideally this'd be a sortable table, with fields filled out if known, such as: name, age, job, politics, location, reason targeted, source of claim for being on the list (original 11, 77, etc). It is definitely NOT ideal that it is here in the talk page, instead of on the page itself. DewiMorgan (talk) 02:18, 28 October 2021 (UTC)


 * So I've put the list back, as a table, and added more refs... but little that wasn't already there on the page. There's a lot more to be done here, but hopefully enough has been done that the next person who sees it won't say "it is founded upon bullshit, let's tear it down!" but rather "it has foundations in solid fact, but needs shoring up: let's add more refs!" I regret I am a very occasional wiki editor, but it's had a good ten hours of my time, so I feel I've put a decent effort in for a first pass at improving. DewiMorgan (talk) 09:09, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

"11".
"In his speech Hitler revealed the names of 11 of those 77 (Ferdinand von Bredow, Georg von Detten, Karl Ernst, Hans Hayn, Edmund Heines, Peter von Heydebreck, Ernst Röhm, Kurt von Schleicher, Gregor Strasser, and Julius Uhl)." That's only ten names. Who's missing? DewiMorgan (talk) 02:00, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Victims of the Night of the Long Knives
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Victims of the Night of the Long Knives's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "kershaw": From Nazism: Ian Kershaw. Hitler, 1936–45: Nemesis. New York: W.W. Norton & Company Inc., 2001, p. 588. From Gustav Ritter von Kahr:  From Fascism: Ian Kershaw. Hitler, 1889–1936: Hubris. New York; London: W.W. Norton & Company, 2000. p. 182. 

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 10:12, 28 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Good bot!
 * Fixed - I'd used the wrong case, kershaw instead of Kershaw. DewiMorgan (talk) 07:18, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

And the killers?
The article devotes great attention to those who were murdered, but never mentions the murderers. My understanding is that the killings were done by the SS under Hitler’s orders, but I don’t know that for sure. I think this is an aspect of the event that should be researched and added. Poihths (talk) 12:19, 12 June 2024 (UTC)