Talk:Victor White (priest)

[Untitled]
This article has been proposed for deletion, but there are books that exist on White, such as Lammers, A. "In God's Shadow". I have not read this book myself, but if any one has, it would be good if she or he could take this piece beyond stub status. Many thanks, ACEOREVIVED (talk) 22:33, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Hoping this article can remain but..
I hope now that I have added some further source citations, this article can survive deletion requests. However,I do appreciate that it currently requires major expansion. If any one has actually studied the Jung-White corresondence in great depth, I shall be appreciative if any one can edit it to bring it beyond stub status. Many thanks, ACEOREVIVED (talk) 22:33, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

I propose that to delete this page, the Article page of Father Victor White would be a retrograde step as his corespondance with Carl Gustav Jung over Answer to Job are of deep signifance. The familes will not publish. They have only last month published the The Red Book (Jung). Hence, even though the Article page is scanty in content the entry is essential to Jung, and his followers.

I only met one person, a student/professor who studied these letters in dept. I met him in my work situation. I therefore ask that the page remain and if I do get the opportunity I will do as you request. The quotation I gave in the talk page of Answer to Job is one that he assured me was in the corespondance.

Wikipedia, do not go backwards!

MacOfJesus (talk) 00:06, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't know anything about Jung but I found some references that might be able to help;, , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , . You guys will have to find which books/news articles/journals and documents are important to this topic but I hope I helped. Cheers -  Marcusmax  ( speak ) 01:38, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. I am looking at the last one on the list "The Role of Victor White in C.G. Jung's writings, by Murray Stein. But, can we quote or synopsise? I don't fancy the "family" after me for copyright!

MacOfJesus (talk) 20:15, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * You can do either but make sure to source it, I recommend quoting only occasionally you don't want this article to sound like a research paper. Instead you could say something like, "Some historians believe that Victor White role was extremely important in shaping the views of C.G. Jung." without the quotations. At that point all you do is use an inline citation at the end of the sentence and you are good to go. -- Marcusmax  ( speak ) 22:58, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. The last one on your list (29) proved to be tops. Some of Jung's greatest letters were written to White a reference to that lecture Murray Stein "The Role of Victor White in C.G. Jung's writings".

MacOfJesus (talk) 15:28, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

I have begun to do this, outlining the problem between the two, as I'v studied both fields, I'v concentrated on this not found in any previous puplications.

MacOfJesus (talk) 22:01, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and modified you citation to the lecture by Murray Stein to conform with Wikipedia policy. Keep up the good work this article improves every day! - Marcusmax  ( speak ) 02:26, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

I noted that, thank you! (I'm not good at that). The bit about the evil in conflict between the two is my own as I studied both areas, most don't really put their finger on the issue. This is important as there is no copying or imitating involved.

MacOfJesus (talk) 08:02, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

I'v added. Could you place the "1" now down to the penultimate paragraph and remove it from where it is, just before "...the human psyche", after "...strongly in his letters", please Marcusmax. Thanks. This is as far as I dare go with this!

MacOfJesus (talk) 16:24, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

I'v copied and pasted your 1 onto the line in question, and on rereading I think the two 1s are OK where they are! MacOfJesus (talk) 21:23, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree, the "1s" are good where they are. - Marcusmax  ( speak ) 02:34, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

--
 * If I might make a suggestion, there is a wonderful tool available without download here on Wikipedia that makes sourcing ten times easier. Just go to My Preferences and click the gadget tab, then find "refTool"" check it and hit save. You will then be able to site many different types of references without having to do it manually, it is amazing. - Marcusmax  ( speak ) 22:46, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. I've done that, but what happens when it is saved and you want to cite different references?

How did the box appear? which hilighted a talk? I have found them. Eureka! Space key, semi-colon and others!

MacOfJesus (talk) 11:28, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

The bit about Jung's qualifications at Zurich being tops, is important in "the Letters" cite. Jung's qualifications are from the top University and the lecture mentions this here as it is important in understanding the Jung/White relationship.

MacOfJesus (talk) 20:44, 25 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Quotation marks on Jung's declaration on knowledge of the deity, is unnecessary, synopsising is safer, no? Those webs may be copy-protected.MacOfJesus (talk) 21:05, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It could go either way, you are more knowledgeable on this topic so feel free to make corrections if I make mistakes. - Marcusmax  ( speak ) 21:44, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Father Victor White
I disagree with the redirection of this page from: Father Victor White to Victor White (a Dominican).

It was in the capasity of Father that the correapondence began and continued.

In the Order of The Dominicans there are both brothers and priests. It was in the capasity of "Father" that Jung communicated. Hence this is a retrograde step, and a confusing step.

I am the person who, together with ACEOREVIVED, made the entrance on the talk page, we have both studied this field, and I disagree with this step. After all if you look at todays Wikipedia's home page an article there is on an another Dominican, who may have been a brother or a priest of the Order.

Hence, I formally request that this step is reversed, on the grounds that the Fathership of Father Victor White is an essential step to understand the letters and the relationship. Jung discussed the understanding of God, Theology, and the Nature of God, with Father Victor White, and because the difference could not be resolved between them, Father Victor White died at the age of 58, some say because of this difference, outlined clearly in the Article page. Father Victor White studied the Classical Theologies and the Classical Philosophies as an essential study for his priesthood, and this, if you study the page, is an essential part of the correspondence between them.

Please reverse!

MacOfJesus (talk) 21:52, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Jung/White
Some people in my work situation have expressed amazement at the notion that Jung was seeing the evidence of so many demons existing, whereas, Fr. White was urging caution. I for one am not amazed at this for working in secure environments for the sick, it is quite possible to see evidence for this.

MacOfJesus (talk) 16:24, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

The citation request about the feuding between the two
I understand that it was Father Victor White's own fellow Dominican Friars, some professors of other diciplines, expressed this opinion, that it lead to Father Victor White's demise in health. I have made enquires about this and when I get a positive citation I shall enter it. MacOfJesus (talk) 15:33, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

A useful external link
Here is a useful external link on the Jung-White letters:

http://www.innerexplorations.com/jctext/letters.htm

ACEOREVIVED (talk) 21:11, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Confusion, on an important point
The Section, known as "letters", which I wrote; an amendment to privatio bono, which confuses the essential issue is made. Father Victor White's position was clear that Good is explained as the absence of Evil. This central issue is confused by bringing in the cause of evil in its various aspects. This obscures the conflict between them and was never discussed in the letters. I said: Father Victor White's position was that Evil came when the Devil rebelled and man "fell", outlining Fr. Victor White's position quoting St John's Gospel: 1 John 1: 5 "God is light; there is no darkness in him at all". Now what is there is a further obscuring of the conflict....After all, the page is entitled: "Victor White", not "Jung". MacOfJesus (talk) 12:35, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

I have changed the entry here as the definition that was put in was not a reflection of the letters, but rather foreign to the conflict and obscures it.. MacOfJesus (talk) 23:30, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Additional un-sourced comment....
The comment to the Article Page:

[This alluded to the argument that God is the absolute and any detraction from that absolute is in effect, evil. (citation needed....)]...

Was not discussed at the time and is not alluded to..... It is a separate argument and completely distinct from the point in question... It is not agreed by all......

MacOfJesus (talk) 19:57, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

There are concrete examples; "to throw in the arena": 1./ In the Bible the Prophet who challenged God:  "...I wish to discuss a point of justice with You, God....." 2./ Job from the Book of Job...... 3./ the man in the Gospels who asked Jesus a pointed question..... "...and who in my neighbour?..."

All of these were good in God's Eyes......

Too many exceptions to the rule to suggest the rule as you put it may be correct... ???

MacOfJesus (talk) 19:29, 24 February 2017 (UTC)