Talk:Video games and Linux/Archive 1

Merge from game lists
I think the lists of games are largely unencyclopedic. Any game on those lists that's worth discussing can be discussed in this article. Chris Pickett 16:00, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * That's largely done now. I checked all games with existing articles on the three lists were categorized under Category:Linux games, made those pages into redirects, and moved See also and External links parts to this article.  Chris Pickett 18:42, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It would be more encyclopedic to have shorter lists (1-3 examples) and more analysis. This article should answer the question of Why? and How?, not simply provide lists of examples, which are incomplete and subjective. Toxicjungle 14:06, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Please also note that there is already a wiki page that attempts to list every Linux game (good luck to them!): /wiki/Category:Linux_games Toxicjungle  10:29, 09 February 2008 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.52.119.89 (talk)
 * 2014: this article now addresses and covers Linux as a gaming platform. Games, on lists, that should be further "discussed", should get an own article. ScotXW (talk) 11:24, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Remakes/Ports
These sections are fairly inaccurate. From skimming it, it doesn't look like the "remakes" are actually remakes at all, since that would imply it was redone by the company that created it. "clones" or "styled after" would seem to be more appropriate. Ports are harder to tell, but Quake and Doom3 at least seem to have been developed for linux and windows, as they use OpenGL, and aren't based on DX. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if they were the same games, but compiled differently. -- Phoeba WrightOBJECTION! 22:18, 26 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I have changed the "Remakes" section to "Clones and remakes". WalterGR (talk) 22:22, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Introduction
There is an unsubstantiated claim in the introduction that claims there "the mindset that there are few games for Linux is untrue". "Few" is an entirely subjective claim and can not be true or untrue. I am going to remove the part regarding truth and simply indicate that there is a mindset of there being few games for Linux. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.28.228.243 (talk) 01:27, 17 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Also " Generally speaking, there is a mindset that there are few games available for Linux" is rather unencyclopedic. It should be an article about the subject, not the justification for including the article in the first place. The fact that such a page exists proves this statement anyhow. 07:40, 26 April 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fillup (talk • contribs)

New Formating for Commercial Linux Games
The way the Commercial Linux games section is laid out is confusing, hard to read, and seems to encourage misleading or false statements. As such, I have been trying some experiments to reformat it in a beneficial matter. You can see my work here: User:Chargh/Commercial_Linux_games. Please do not be afraid to make positive and influential changes to my experiment, and please post your comments. Comrade Hamish Wilson (talk) 05:47, 10 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I shall warn everyone now, if I do not get any negative responses by November 20th I am going to merge my scheme into the main article. Comrade Hamish Wilson (talk) 05:37, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

French link
Somehow I got mixed up with what I was doing, I meant to remove the link in question, not change the order in which it appeared. I just wanted to mention that here (since I also forgot to put an edit summary in the last edit). I'm being rather absentminded today... - SudoGhost (talk) 19:26, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Talk about indie games
There are successful indie games ported to Linux, as in Penny Arcade Advectures: Episode 1, or World of Goo. We should probably mention those in the article, too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.71.158.115 (talk) 07:45, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Just would like to note that his has now been largely addressed. Technopeasant (talk) 22:28, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Redo this page
I am a big proponent of linux gaming and was not impressed with this page. I think the low quality, amateur games should be removed from this page. Also, a wine gaming section should be made to show the recent games that work great in wine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joezamboni (talk • contribs) 16:03, 22 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay, firstly please sign your posts by typing four tildes (~) next time. Secondly, suggesting games get removed from the article based on your own opinion of quality is not encyclopedic. And thirdly, while I agree wine gaming should be mentioned, I would also like to stress that it should not be the focus of this article. This is about Linux gaming, not windows games that just "happen" to work in wine. Comrade Hamish Wilson (talk) 00:05, 23 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm having a hard time with the idea that you can run a game on "Linux", as it is only the Kernel of the OS, which is GNU. It seems like it's much more than just semantics to refer to it as GNU/Linux as GNU is the actual OS in the context of this article. Games (and software in general) can not run on the Kernel alone. Likewise, one cannot run GNU without the Kernel. Would it be prudent to make those changes where appropriate? Brandonrunyon (talk) 00:58, 24 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I would say no, the distinction between Linux the kernel and Linux the operating system and the GNU issue are dealt with in the GNU/Linux naming controversy article. I personally use the term GNU/Linux to describe the operating system and sometimes use it on Wikipedia however it really depends on what is written where. So if you write a section, your term is approipate and vice versa. Was it you who changed a lot of "Linux" into "GNU/Linux" because I am just noting that Linux Game Publishing can under no terms be called "GNU/Linux Game Publishing", you can not reinvent company names. Technopeasant (talk) 06:51, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Don't bring up that idiotic naming controversy, you can run an operating system based on the Linux without any parts of GNU if you so wanted. The naming is absolutely besides the point here. Instead stay to the topic and come up with a reason why this page isn't the messiest Wikipedia page you've ever seen. Rovanion (talk) 23:15, 1 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Rovanion, if you ever read this, I just want to say that that response was utterly unfair. I had handled the matter in a courteous and considerate matter and then you go in and launch a personal attack calling his opinions "idiotic" and go and, with useless generalities, attack the article. That is no way to help the encyclopedia grow. Technopeasant (talk) 22:28, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Commercial, proprietary?
Hi, a concern was raised within the article about whether 'commercial' games, and 'proprietary' games are mutually exclusive. I removed it, because it was just in the article (without tags). Such discussion and correspondence between editors is supposed to be happening in talk pages, not all over articles. I'm raising that concern here now if someone wants to take action. Here's the diff. --BurritoBazooka (talk) 04:35, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

New picture for ported games?
At the moemnt we have a picture of VVVVVV with the caption "Terry Cavanagh's VVVVVV was ported to Linux for the Humble Bundle". While I think this is correct I wondered if we could perhaps change it for another game that was "more" ported. VVVVVV, while techincally only first being released for Linux in the Humble Bundle was a flash game anyway. This meant that it was basically cross-platphorm from the start in the same way as something like Java or Javascript. So I really wouldn't think it would need much porting at all. I know this is sort of nitpicking but what do others think? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.7.27.189 (talk) 03:18, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Move to Linux as gaming platform

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Merged into move discussion at . Steel1943 (talk) 04:09, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Linux Gaming → Linux as gaming platform – I moved Linux Gaming to Linux as gaming platform because this is what this article will be addressing. In the past it has been more about Template:Open-source_video_games, which is useless, which is simply zealot-ing free and open-source software. There already is the template and also the article List of open-source video games. What Wikipedia is missing is an article addressing Linux as gaming platform. I already rewrote the introduction and also placed software architecture as the first paragraph. --Relisted. Steel1943 (talk) 08:11, 31 October 2013 (UTC) ScotXW (talk) 08:50, 19 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Oppose - Per WP:AT, specifically WP:COMMONNAME. I couldn't find a single reliable source that describes this subject as "Linux as gaming platform", but plenty of reliable sources that use the term "Linux gaming", including Time Magazine, PCWorld, LinuxInsider, GameInformer, and NVidia.  Those sources represent a cross-section of the different types of reliable sources that would report on the topic and each has differing scopes and intended audiences, yet they all use "Linux gaming" to describe the subject.  I believe the reliable sources show a clear WP:COMMONNAME for the subject; changing the article title doesn't address concerns about the content in the article, given that both titles describe the same thing, only one is used by reliable sources, whereas the other is not. - Aoidh (talk) 09:11, 19 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Just as a side note, it should be Linux gaming, with the lowercase "g". -- Dsimic (talk) 09:50, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
 * It should, but it can't be moved to that title because you edited the redirect after moving the page, meaning only an administrator can move it back. - Aoidh (talk) 10:13, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
 * You're right. A move/rename request should be placed, so the admins can see and handle that. -- Dsimic (talk) 10:22, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I've placed a rename request, and will move the comments below to that new request. -- Dsimic (talk) 13:18, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 31 October 2013

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Merged into move discussion at . Steel1943 (talk) 04:09, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Linux Gaming → Linux gaming – Making "G" in "Gaming" lowercase, so the article name is inline with the naming convention. -- Dsimic (talk) 13:17, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.


 * Support Linux gaming. That's a far better title. Red Slash 02:20, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Support Linux gaming with a lowercase g.--70.49.74.129 (talk) 05:26, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Support as above, move to Linux gaming. Zarcadia (talk) 12:57, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

"Linux as a gaming platform" in the media
etc. ScotXW (talk) 22:41, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Linux as a gaming platform July 14, 2013
 * http://hothardware.com/News/Battlefield-4-Creative-Director-Extols-Virtues-of-Linux-as-a-Gaming-Platform/
 * http://www.pcauthority.com.au/Feature/332124,is-2013-the-year-of-linux-gaming.aspx or use Linux as a gaming platform
 * http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/john_carmack_linux_is_not_the_right_platform_for_video_games.html
 * http://www.zdnet.com/wheres-valve-going-with-linux-7000003778/
 * http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/79070.html


 * That's a nice collection of URLs. Any insights, please, regarding what should we do with all of them? -- Dsimic (talk) 22:52, 4 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I got it. These are for supporting the renaming into "Linux as a gaming platform." -- Dsimic (talk) 13:36, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Requested move 1 November 2013

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was moved to Linux gaming. --BDD (talk) 17:56, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Linux Gaming → ? – There are two proposed locations for where this article should be moved. Please review the discussion (below) for the survey of where this article should be moved. Steel1943 (talk) 04:09, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Here are the proposals:


 * Linux Gaming → Linux as gaming platform – I moved Linux Gaming to Linux as gaming platform because this is what this article will be addressing. In the past it has been more about Template:Open-source_video_games, which is useless, which is simply zealot-ing free and open-source software. There already is the template and also the article List of open-source video games. What Wikipedia is missing is an article addressing Linux as gaming platform. I already rewrote the introduction and also placed software architecture as the first paragraph. --Relisted. Steel1943  (talk) 08:11, 31 October 2013 (UTC) ScotXW (talk) 08:50, 19 October 2013 (UTC)


 * OR


 * Linux Gaming → Linux gaming – Making "G" in "Gaming" lowercase, so the article name is inline with the naming convention. -- Dsimic (talk) 13:17, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.


 * Oppose Linux as gaming platform (Posted vote for clarity.) Steel1943  (talk) 04:09, 1 November 2013 (UTC) - Per WP:AT, specifically WP:COMMONNAME.  I couldn't find a single reliable source that describes this subject as "Linux as gaming platform", but plenty of reliable sources that use the term "Linux gaming", including Time Magazine, PCWorld, LinuxInsider, GameInformer, and NVidia.  Those sources represent a cross-section of the different types of reliable sources that would report on the topic and each has differing scopes and intended audiences, yet they all use "Linux gaming" to describe the subject.  I believe the reliable sources show a clear WP:COMMONNAME for the subject; changing the article title doesn't address concerns about the content in the article, given that both titles describe the same thing, only one is used by reliable sources, whereas the other is not. - Aoidh (talk) 09:11, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Support Linux gaming. That's a far better title. Red Slash 02:20, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Support Linux gaming with a lowercase g.--70.49.74.129 (talk) 05:26, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Support as above, move to Linux gaming. Zarcadia (talk) 12:57, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Support Linux gaming. Capitalized "g" makes no sense. -- cyclopia speak! 20:09, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:


 * Just as a side note, it should be Linux gaming, with the lowercase "g". -- Dsimic (talk) 09:50, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
 * It should, but it can't be moved to that title because you edited the redirect after moving the page, meaning only an administrator can move it back. - Aoidh (talk) 10:13, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
 * You're right. A move/rename request should be placed, so the admins can see and handle that. -- Dsimic (talk) 10:22, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I've placed a rename request, and will move the comments below to that new request. -- Dsimic (talk) 13:18, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

XBox
The article is wrong, xbox doesnt run on Linux it runs a modified win2k kernel —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.113.106.157 (talk) 08:48, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It probably referred to Homebrew (video games). I hope I made this clear now, there is a subsection of software architecture. ScotXW (talk) 11:25, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Poor Article
This is absolutely a paper from trash as it listing so many company and their games. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.45.85.168 (talk) 06:35, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
 * That is like saying that the article on the heart is a "paper from trash" for listing so many chambers, veins and arteries. If you are implying that more effort should be put into documenting the marketing and development of games for the platform than instead look at Linux Game Publishing, OpenGL, Grapple or Simple DirectMedia Layer. A section on these matters would not be unwelcome though, but are mostly covered in the introduction. Finally, I find it unhelpful for someone who is not even committed enough to Wikipedia to get an account to go about posting random attacks without substance or substantiation - this article is in my opinion an excellent summary of the subject. Technopeasant (talk) 22:28, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree! We will remove the games into articles such as Open-source video game List of open-source video games List of commercial video games with available source code and other. The article addresses and covers the theme Linux as a gaming platform, even if the renaming was hamstringed, running and developing free and proprietary software, using free and proprietary tools. We look at market share/installed base, performance, supported hardware and of course the entire software ecosystem. ScotXW (talk) 11:32, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Adoption by game engines, help out with the article List of game engines
I introduced the section "Adoption by game engines" and immediately inserted a Template:Main to List of game engines so we do not duplicate that list. Anybody who cares about Linux as a gaming platform, could help out with that article by introducing a column "Linux support", e.g. the API-columns here: [Frostbite_(game_engine)#Games_using_Frostbite]]. In this subsection, well, we could write about technicalities. For examples, everything related to porting a game to Linux, refers to porting its underlying game engine. The game data remains identical. ScotXW (talk) 12:06, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

SteamDevDays 2014
I would like to mention the SteamDevDays 2014 (http://www.steamdevdays.com/). They brought quite some solid information for free. E.g.
 * Getting Started with Linux Game Development
 * Getting Started Debugging on Linux
 * Game Development with SDL 2.0 slides http://icculus.org/SteamDevDays/
 * etc. User:ScotXW t@lk 16:19, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Way too many games listed
This article has way too many games listed. There are entire sections that feel like they are nothing but links. It almost feels like an advertisement for all of the companies that have ported their games to Linux. I feel that a few defining examples ought to be listed and the rest ought to be cut. The article will be shorter sure, but much higher quality. Zell Faze (talk) 13:12, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Agreed and have tagged. Samwalton9 (talk) 13:26, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree as well! We will remove the games into articles such as Open-source video game, List of open-source video games, List of commercial video games with available source code and other. The article addresses and covers the theme Linux as a gaming platform, even if the renaming was hamstringed, running and developing free and proprietary software, using free and proprietary tools. We look at market share/installed base, performance, supported hardware and of course the entire software ecosystem. ScotXW (talk) 11:32, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

List of Linux games
I'd like to call your attention to the NavBar Video game lists by platform. Then please have a look at e.g. List of PlayStation 4 games and the NavBar PlayStation;

While I like Open-source video games and contributed to it, it seems some people™ confuse "Linux gaming" with "free and open-source game engines" or "free content" video games, while I'd like to distinguish:
 * Linux as gaming platform the suggested name of this article here
 * List of Linux games = the entire universe of ... proprietary games, & games with FOSS-licensed engine + non-free-licensed content & FOSS-licensed engine + free-licensed content ... that run natively on Linux
 * List of Wine-supported video games
 * List of game engine recreations
 * etc.

and games that may or may not run natively on Linux: I don't know any such game, that does not run natively on Linux, but still, being open-source is not automatically the same as running on Linux or FreeBSD or whatever. User:ScotXW t@lk 12:34, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
 * free and open-source-licensed Video game engine, free and open-source-licensed middleware, and content under a free artistic license

Concerning the recent image additions
I've removed these recent additions because they are only incidentally related to the article's subject, and do not aid in the understanding of the subject in any meaningful way; they are effectively a distraction and a waste of space. A reader doesn't have to see a diagram showing that the API calls the C library; that's way too technical for an article that overviews gaming on a particular OS, and does nothing to enhance a reader's understanding of Linux gaming. - Aoidh (talk) 20:53, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

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