Talk:Video poker

Opening Comments
Here are the main changes I made in my August revisions for this article:

- Added a few examples to compare the frequency of a couple of the hands with the best payouts.

- Added some detail about "random" card dealing by a video poker machine. With the proper RNG algorithm, a computer can get extremely close to "random", but never as random as an actual deck of cards. Hence, the name "pseudo-random number generator". In Nevada, the gaming commission has agents who test and certify the randomness of new games. In practice, this distinction is not discoverable by a player, but that doesn't stop many folks from speculating about whether these machines are really random. (They're random enough.)

- Explained the concept of "full pay" and clarified that a "full pay" schedule must be present for perfect strategy to do any good. (i.e. if you play perfect strategy on a game with a negative pay schedule, you'll still lose in the long run.)

- Added more examples of various kinds of video poker, including additional kinds beyond Deuces Wild that are offered with "full pay" schedules, as well as enumerating the various multi-play games that are available.

- Added section explaining how to gain more of an advantage by playing video poker as a member of a "slot club".

Future enhancements
The most important missing pieces of information in this article are the specific game variations and pay tables that players should look for if they want to play "full pay" video poker, so I will follow up with those tables in my upcoming edits.


 * (Added table for Full Pay Deuces Wild today. --DV 09:57, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC))
 * (Added tables for Double Bonus and Double Double Bonus. --DV 09:36, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC))
 * Other major variant missing is "Joker's Wild". Full pay is 800/200/100/50 20/7/5 (where they fiddle the most) and 3/2/2/1 with the lowest hand being kings or better. Total return 100.65%, one of the highest. The page is getting a bit big, so I vote for separate pages for each major variant (jacks, deuces, bonus, and jokers) so that variants and the finer points can be discussed. Alternatively, a separate page for "full pay video poker" might work. Also may care to talk about variance (e.g. higher on the games with wildcards; how to quantify, etc.) - Mike

The second most important piece of information is probably too topical for Wikipedia, which is a list of where all of the full pay video poker machines are currently located. Would it be in order for me to provide a link to a site which tracks this information?

Thirdly, there are some new games, with bizarre "double or nothing" and multiplier options, that might be enjoyable to read about.

Finally, there are a lot of near-"full pay" games variations that are better than nothing, and at the same time, there are also a lot of lousy games with terrible pay schedules that any informed gamer would want to stay away from, but it's unclear where the line is between encyclopedia entry and a full-fledged gaming guide better suited for a small book, so I will wait for feedback on that.

By the way, there are a few well-regarded, well-tested, non-casino-affiliated video poker training programs out there. Would it be kosher to provide references or links to those products? I'm fairly new to Wikipedia, and my initial impression is that advertising is frowned upon, so I'll respect the opinions of others if there is a preference not to have references or links to products.

Also, I would like to provide authoritative sources to backup the technical and legal details in this article, but all of the sources I am aware of are either commercial book authors or software vendors, so if it's not kosher to mention any of those folks, please say so.

Good Luck! (originally posted by DV before he figured out signatures)

On-topic, neutral references to commercial products are OK?
Much to my surprise, I found my sense of the acceptability of commercial references on Wikipedia was completely mistaken, after seeing an article about "Coke" featured on the front page.

So, I poked around a bit more and found entire articles about commercial software offerings. After reading articles about Microsoft Excel, Doom, and Counterstrike, I believe Wikipedia could use some reference articles about video poker software. :)

For example, WinPoker is one of the most popular pieces of software that allows users to play video poker at home, and it offers extensive options to help its users become better players. Many gaming authors refer to its results when writing about how to draw to various hands in video poker.

I only own WinPoker, but I know of at least two other products that are out there. I will gather information about the other products before I begin an article on WinPoker, so as to write as neutral a presentation as possible about the topic.

NPOV issues
As I describe on my user page, I am also open to suggestions as to how to neutrally present the two primary playing styles for video poker (probability-based strategy vs. procedural, shoot-from-the-hip mystical and Martindale strategies), while keeping to the format of an encyclopedic entry. One online forum I am aware of is split into two separate forums, to keep these two sides apart from one another. As I am not an adherent to the mystical schools of play, I am unsure if I am the right author to present that camp's perspective, but having two articles on this relatively obscure topic seems excessive, so when the mystical adherents eventually show up to add their edits to these upcoming articles, hopefully we will find it in ourselves to be civil to one another.

Cheers... DV 05:54, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Trademarks
Do I need to acknowledge the trademarks I have referred to in this article?

IGT owns the names of most of the popular video poker machines in Las Vegas, but I don't want to add a trademark cite or an external link to them if most users think that would be spam, as I've already had one user delete a link I provided for another article on the basis that the link was "commercial". --DV 21:46, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Bingo variant used in tribal gaming
Here in Oklahoma, you can only play video poker machines that are somehow based on bingo. Most of these are one-shot, where the player makes no decisions (and is therefore not much different than a slot machine), but today I played what seemed to be a standard video poker game, except it's still based on bingo: after you choose which cards to keep, it seems to select some numbers and see how they line up on a bingo card, or something. How does this actually work? - Furrykef 07:54, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

These are really not video poker machines in any true sense. In some tribal compacts (like Oklahoma) only Class II machines are allowed that simulate bingo or pulltabs. Such games look like video poker, but whether you win or not is based on the result of a computer bingo hand. Toonces 23:55, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Player clubs
I believe that the information on player clubs (quite useful and valuable) belongs in a separate section, linked to from this page. For example, I'd like to reference it from the "progressive jackpot" page, because the cash-back schemes actually lower the break-even point for a particular game's jackpot.

Addiction
This section seems out of place to me. Suggestions? I dislike the close association of slot/fruit machines with VP, and feel that the implication that addiction is inevitable is clearly false. As for the relatively high precision periods mentioned (1 and 4 years)... where the hell do these come from? --Mike Van Emmerik 13:24, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree. The addiction figures seem made-up, or at least incomplete. We should either delete this section or come up with some substantial arguments for it. --InformationalAnarchist 06:44, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

Clarification of the term "full pay"
Full pay video poker games don't have to be positive expectation games to be full pay. 9/6 Jacks or Better is considered a full pay game even though it's not a positive expectation game. There should probably be a distinction drawn between "full pay" and "positive expectation". Rray

VP 24/7 link
Someone (not me) had added this and was immediately reverted:
 * Video Poker 24/7

If you add the missing period, the link works, is add free, and does arguably contain some useful information not contained in the article (e.g. stragegy hints). There would no doubt be considerable overlap with the other links:


 * Video Poker 24/7

So can I ask:
 * was it reverted only because of the typo in the link?
 * not enough new information?
 * not an "outstanding" example of its kind?

Mainly so I can judge later link spam, I guess. --Mike Van Emmerik 23:58, 15 May 2006 (UTC)


 * All three. I actually did mess around with it to get it to work before I removed it. Also, the user that added it only has two edits, both adding links to the same site. --GraemeL (talk) 00:05, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Website suggestion
www.videopokertools.com

I have recently done some video poker related programming and it interested me enough to set up a site with some valuble and unique (I think) content that might make it eligible for an external link on the Video Poker page. It has a Jacks or Better and Deuces Wild tool that lists the EV and standard deviation for all 32 ways to play a hand and also some source code for hand evaluators.

Rather than being seen to spam the Video Poker page, I will leave it up to long term maintainers to determine if this site is appropriate to be added to the external links.

Thanks Scott


 * Hi, Scott. Neat website. Rray 21:52, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Long term maintainers? I guess I come close. Done. Good work! --Mike Van Emmerik 21:55, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

External links and sources
User:2005 mentioned that "External links" and "Sources" should be two separate sections in his last edit. It's a good point. I'll work on that tomorrow, since the article needs citations anyway. (Unless someone gets to it before I do.) Rray 22:18, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

The external links all seem to be guides on how to play rather than further information about the game in general. Therefore I suggest that a link to the Open Directory Project is more appropriate:. This would be consistent with external links guideline #1: Links should be kept to a minimum.

Website Suggestion
www.videopoker247.com/games-list.html

This site has information on a wide range of video poker games that can be found either in live casinos or online casinos. A brief description is given for most of the games on the page link above, with links to further information for many of the games from that page. Apart from the various games the site offers unique information on the history of the game.

I will also leave it up to long term maintainers to determine if this site is appropriate to be added to the external links.

No pictures?
Where's the pics?
 * Good idea. I'll see what I can find.Rray 16:09, 17 September 2006 (UTC)


 * added one --Kvuo 20:08, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I realize this is an ancient discussion topic, but I just added one of a contemporary machine.-- Surv1v4l1st ▌Talk 23:30, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Double Bonus Poker
I'd like to make some edits to this article. The pay table for Double Bonus poker is incorrect. It leaves out four of a kind (2s-4s) and four of a kind (5s-Ks) which pay 80 and 50 respectively. I'll do some minor copyediting today and make the other change soon if there is no objection. MKoltnow 23:40, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks. It's amazing that omission went so long without being noticed. The missing entries are in the original source I copied the table from (an old guide by Bob Dancer and Liam Daily), so I must have overlooked it when I originally added the table. Thanks again. DV 10:24, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Merge Bonus Poker
Many of the video poker variations including Jacks or Better are already in the Video poker article. There is nothing significant about Bonus Poker to merit its own article. -Nv8200p talk 01:16, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Best (Jacks or Better) payouts
Video lottery in NY, at least at Yonkers Raceway and Monticello Raceway, not only includes 9/6 Jacks or Better machines, but, these SAME slots pay 60:1 for a straight flush instead of 50:1. Try to visit Monticello, it's struggling. 216.179.123.106 (talk) 19:11, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

External links section
I'm not sure what all the fuss is about the multiple DMOZ link deletions across so many articles, but it seems as if the Yahoo Directory and the DMOZ links would both be appropriate here. Discuss it here if you disagree. Rray (talk) 17:12, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

"quads return 50 bets"
Can somebody explain this phrase from the article? And if possible, insert an explanation into the article? Thanks! -- 92.231.117.179 (talk) 08:36, 4 March 2012 (UTC)


 * "Quads" is poker terminology for four matching cards or "four of a kind". 75.0.5.50 (talk) 20:41, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Video Poker Is Not Online Poker
The article states: "Video poker games online are now available in the USA in 3 different states. These include New Jersey, Delaware and Nevada. Players in all three states are able to enjoy fully regulated online video poker games on the proviso that they are physically present in the respective state, of legal age to gamble and can validate their identity."

This is not true. Those states have licensed online poker rooms, not video poker. Real money, multi-player online poker and the casino game(s) called "video poker" are very different. Video poker is a form of casino gambling and those three states do not have licensed online casinos, they have online poker rooms, and they do not offer video poker.