Talk:Viktor Bout/Archive 1

NPOV
"Nicholas Cage's movie Lord of War portrays a fictional character that in no bit portrays Victor Bout, but is a product of author's imagination. Several other so-called writers and reporters, including Peter Landesman, Douglas Farah, Alexander Harrowell,and many others used Bout's name to build-up publicity over their unethical, misleading, and often novel-like works that otherwise will be discounted as uncorroborated yellow-press phantom stories."

"Many of the things said about Viktor are proven to be mere speculations or allegations. It is convenient for several governments to blame one individual who can neither speak out, nor fight the allegations in the absence of resources to do so."

Phrases such as these do not sound like a dispassionate article with a neutral point of view, but rather someone with an agenda. At the very least a rephrase would be useful.

I find this article having heavy anti-Russian bias. Most of the allegations are unproven and borrowed from writings of freelance journalists. Typical example is the sentence "US and UN officials say that Bout smuggled thousands upon thousands of assault rifles, grenade launchers, bullets and other weapons to African conflicts in Angola, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Democratic Republic of Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Kenya, Liberia, Libya, Congo-Brazzaville, Rwanda, Sierra Leone, South Africa, Sudan, Swaziland and Uganda.[2]" Remarkably, the reference [2] for this allegation cannot be opened. Invoking the rule : "Controversial material of any kind that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libelous" I suggest to cut this article most severely, so that NPOV criterion can be satisfied.

Just to point out that the above list of countries includes Cameroon. The cited source does not include Cameroon.

Where is the link that suggests that the Russian Mafia are behind a spate of political assassinations in lebanon? I guess it does make sense given these people have little regard for human life, and by stirring the pot in the middle east they also keep their arms racket thriving. We hear plenty about how 'Syria' or 'Iran' are behind such killings (and maybe they are), but it also makes sense that these devious and evil men could be mafia with links in the west through banks or media, who knows??. Look at the crazy whacko kooks in London recently with their radiation poisoning! --Dean1970 21:23, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Unsourced statements and lack of prose
This article just plain sucks. Not only is most of this unsourced and lacking in prose, but it the few sources it does use include Wayne Madsen. This guy is a Tabloid Reporter for crying out loud, is he really a reliable source for this article? I mean, the whole thing reaks of an agenda, and not neutrality. I think we need this page protected and investigated.Scryer_360 05:17, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Lousy article
The link to "Gangsters Incorporated" (used six times as a reference) is dead.

Scryer is right; there is a lot of no-source and junk-source stuff in this piece.

The link at globalpolicy.org is written by a guy in the Jamestown pseudo-think-tank. Can't we do better? If the UN and Interpol don't like this Bout guy, how come there are no links at the UN or Interpol?

There are:

http://www.un.org/Docs/sc/committees/Liberia2/1015e.pdf Pennywisepeter 17:04, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

March 2008 arrest
AP reporting Bout arrested in Bangkok, Thailand. http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/APNEWSALERT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2008-03-06-05-51-47 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dipgolf (talk • contribs) 11:08, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I made some major additions to the article, all found on the referenced articles. When time permits I might even flesh it out - in the mean time there is quite a lot of detail about him at http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/sierraleone/bout.html

About the image copyright, I have contacted the relevant holders, but it's proving difficult as there's very little of Bout image wise. Is it possible that these images are public domain because they are tied to finding a major criminal?

In case anyone wondered, I did this after watching Lord of War :) Gabbahead 18:03, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

His name can also be written as "Victor Bout", apparently. 66.92.165.123 20:54, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

And they actually write him as "Victor Butt" on the Dept. of State web site: http://www.state.gov/s/inr/rls/fs/2001/4004.htm

In the part says that the pentagon has used him to supply iraqi troops, I assume that means the new iraqi army? Hellfire83 11:21, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Here's an excellent, apparently still unused source: http://www.publicintegrity.org/bow/report.aspx?aid=157   --Thatnewguy 12:41, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.197.54.27 (talk)

Eh eh? What's this in the article about a DEA sting? None of the sources say it was a sting, or even that the DEA was directly involved. They only say that a DEA warrant preceded the Thai one. Did the AP pull an article describing a "sting", is this original research, have we got a DEA agent secretly boasting on Wikipedia, what's the deal? 69.29.28.8 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 20:11, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Bad grammar
This sentence:

"Viktor Anatolyevich Bout (Russian: Виктор Анатольевич Бут) (born January 13, 1967 in Dushanbe, Tajik SSR, Soviet Union) is a Russian former KGB major and arms dealer, [1] nicknamed 'the Merchant of Death'.[2] Bout is suspected of supplying arms to the Taliban and Al Qaeda and of supplying huge arms shipments into various civil wars in Africa with his own private air fleet.[3] He is the subject of a book by that name written by Douglas Farah and Stephen Braun[4] (Bout is not the first to bear the title: it appeared in a premature obituary of Alfred Nobel, which ultimately inspired him to create the Nobel Prizes)."

is just terrible. "He is the subject of a book by that same name..." What same name? 'Merchant of Death'? Or 'Private Air Fleet'? Because 'Private Air Fleet' is what it appears to be referencing..

And then the random tangent about Nobel? The sentence is just plain horrid. GenerationalSavant (talk) 02:12, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed, I don't think the tangent about Nobel is appropriate in the introduction. Perhaps in a section of the article that delves into a greater detail, but not the intro. If you can do a better job with the introduction, by all means, edit it. vlado4 (talk) 21:28, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

This paragraph annoyed me too, so I've had a stab at it. Sir Garence (talk) 00:07, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

My edit
I have recently deleted a segment of text that is not supported by cited sources. Some of links are dead; others do not support the claim. If you think they do support the claims, please explain it here or provide better sources. Remember, this is a BLP article.Biophys (talk) 23:16, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Plane fleet
"According to the book Merchant of Death, Bout owns a fleet of Russian cargo planes which he uses to transport arms. His planes are very poorly maintained but shielded with lead. The lead weighs them down but protects them from most bullets."

I don't have the book "Merchant of Death" but I find the idea that he's using lead-lined planes to stop bullets absurd. Lead is a horrible material for blocking bullets. Either the author is wrong or whoever wrote that statement into the article is mistaken. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pmw2cc (talk • contribs) 17:06, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I listened to the Leonard Lopate interview with the authors, and they indeed claim that he used lead in his planes in order to protect them. They even claim that this even saved his plane from being shot-down while doing a run in the Congo. Anyway, it would be nice if this issue can be resolved. Are the authors to be trusted as proper sources or not? vlado4 (talk) 20:12, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Maybe you read Davinci code also? it is same thing, hollywood story. There is no evidence to support the book when you scratch surface. all so called witnesses actually previous business partner maybe wronged by Buoot. photographs claiming to be covert meeting actually invited by Buoot to make photo. As for lead lined planes no plane is made of lead. lead is much too heavy, plane would not fly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.11.251.148 (talk) 18:02, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Born
When exactly he was born ? Could someone put time ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.206.6.66 (talk) 22:21, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Article picture
Just wondering, Im not sure how wikipedia's images policy works so Im not gonna add it but can the picture from the interpol wanted page be used for the article picture until a more recent one is found? If so, feel free to add. the link is in the article somewhere. -24.61.6.147 (talk) 16:00, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Airstan
Was he involved in the 1995 Airstan incident? --Error (talk) 18:52, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Der Spiegel
Those who are, or claim to be, knowledgeable about this person may intererested in this article, which appeared on the English-language site of Spiegel online on 7 October 2010:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,721532,00.html

I am struck by the broad parallels between the Viktor Bout story and the character of "Dickie" Roper in John le Carré's The Night Manager. Sca (talk) 17:26, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

A criminal?
Obviously nobody should be categorized as a criminal without conviction. There is information in the article which states that he was convicted in absentia in the Central African Republic for forging documents, but later the charges were dropped? (This is confirmed by the reference.) That's sounds like a paradox to me. Either charges are dropped before someone is convicted or the verdict will have to be overturned. Which is it? In any case, I move that the grounds for classifying him as a criminal are tenuous at best. And of course, what he is accused of doing should not be counted in this respect. __meco (talk) 17:11, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Rounded view
I urge anyone who wants a broader view of the subject to of Viktor Buoot to review eastern media instead of western media which very often fail to provide the rounded view.

part1: http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/30849 part2: http://www.russiatoday.com/features/news/30973 part3: http://www.russiatoday.com/features/news/31005 part4: http://www.russiatoday.com/features/news/31009

Western media has proclaimed Buoot to be some sort of criminal charachter, subverting world authorities for many year. In fct he lived these years mostly in Mosow, doing philanthropic work and most evidence is made by incredible witnesses of no investigative background. Maybe he is being demonised by american to push for a mcCain victory? might now he be released due to some technicality? very possible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.11.251.148 (talk) 17:59, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

"Russia Today" is the web-based propaganda arm of the Kremlin. It is not an independent news source. It might be legitimate to refer users to articles from independent but biased sources like Fox News. However, there is little to no encyclopedic value in directing users to Russia today, which is entirely a governmental propaganda vehicle for a sitting, non-democractic government.

I strongly suspect, in fact, I can pretty well guarantee, that you personally (whoever wrote the above) are on the payroll of Viktor Bout's highly slick web media campaign of disinformation. While a naive person might direct people to Russia Today articles in a legitimate but misguided attempt at balance, only a dedicated liar would propagandize his 'argument' with the nonsense claims of bout's 'philanthropic' activities. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.44.120.179 (talk) 09:55, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

^^^ is an idiot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.59.233.150 (talk) 00:58, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Russia Today is a news TV channel, which is available internationally. It is actually rather good.--Toddy1 (talk) 00:36, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

The hilarious header
"Viktor Anatolyevich Bout (Russian: Виктор Анатольевич Бут) (born 13 January 1967, near Dushanbe, Tajik SSR, Soviet Union) is a Russian businessman who established a number of air cargo companies." Yeah, and Al Capone was a respected businessman and proficient 'violin' player. I swear was this written by Victor himself? Can't we just say that he's a "notorious international weapons merchant?" Vulpesinculta51 (talk) 21:28, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Massive removal of sourced material
I wonder what was the reason for massive removal of sourced materials from this article by an IP ? If there is no objections, I would like to restore some of it.Biophys (talk) 05:10, 7 September 2009 (UTC)


 * So, he tells about himself: Victor Bout is a Russian businessman who became one of the world’s famous on the basis of fictitious tales and stories which were generated from one source... and so on. But that fails WP:RS and contradicts other independent sources.Biophys (talk) 15:44, 7 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Besides, some sources are misrepresented. The Economist article  tells he was a GRU major, not a military translator as now claimed in this WP article with the reference to Economist. Another source (deleted for no reason) by Julie Anderson (International Intelligence journal) tells he is actually a former KGB major.Biophys (talk) 15:52, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

OK, let's look at sources: this is a right-wing author, and this is NY Times and this this. OK, let's better look at the books. First hit: Merchant of death..." . Great source! It explains in detail the GRU/KGB controversy. Bout always claimed to be a military translator and indeed graduated from Institute of Military translators. However, all Western intelligence services finally concluded that he was actually an undercover GRU officer, although a couple of first reports connected him to the KGB. (Source??? "all Western intelligence services concluded" This is not documentary, verifiable information, and it almost certainly isn't true. cw5301 (talk))

But all sources call him a "Merchant of death", so he must be described as such. This is majority view.Biophys (talk) 16:12, 7 September 2009 (UTC)


 * So, the books (google search for "Viktor Bout"). Book 1: "Merchant of death: money, guns, planes, and the man who makes war possible". Book 2 tells: "The Taliban turned to Viktor Bout, the notorious Russian spy". And so on and so on. He is also seen as a major terrorism promoter worldwide.Biophys (talk) 16:25, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Response
I think it was I who removed a lot of sourced material - the page did not comply to WP:NPOV.

I don't think Bout's personal website fails WP:RS, see WP:BLP, Using the subject as a self-published source ... I don't know how what I've cited his website for can be construed as "unduly self-serving", even if the website as a whole may be. But I guess the degree to which it is self-serving would be different for each time it is cited. Fleetham (talk) 17:36, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Removing sourced materials does not help to improve NPOV. To the contrary. And there are many very good RS about him. For example,
 * The Merchant of Death,
 * Man with Kalshnikov(Russian).
 * His Taliban connections (Russian) Biophys (talk) 16:02, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Again
Some material seems to disappear without justifications, including:

"In 1993 Bout began collaborating with Syrian-born Richard Chichakli. In 1995, Sharjah International Airport hired Chichakli to be the commercial manager of a new free trade zone heavily used by Bout. Chichakli has been described as Bout's financial manager.  "

"In 1996 Taliban captured Kabul. In the same year Taliban assumed control of Ariana Afghan Airlines. According to officials interviewed by the Los Angeles Times, Bout's companies helped Taliban to run the airline. Michael Scheuer, head of the CIA's bin Laden unit, concluded that Ariana was being used as a "terrorist taxi service". According to a former Taliban military intelligence official interviewed by the Los Angeles Times, Bout's planes transported Taliban recruits, shuttling "back and forth several times a night, he said, ferrying as many as 800 to 1,000 recruits to Kabul and Kandahar." "

"After the September 11 attacks Vladimir Putin's administration assured that Bout was not in Russia. Yet during the same month Bout appeared publicly in Moscow and claimed innocence. "

"In July 2003 the New York Times succeeded to interview Bout. Bout stated that "I woke up after Sept. 11 and found I was second only to Osama.... My clients, the governments... I keep my mouth shut." He pointed to his forehead and said “If I told you everything I’d get the red hole right here". When the journalist asked about Russian intelligence services, Bout replied "Until now you’ve been digging in a big lake with small spoons. There are huge forces..." and then stayed quiet. " Gazpr (talk) 11:58, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Where is the balance?
Daniel Estulin investigated many of the wonderful assertions about Bout and found them to be false. A more balanced article will add this contribution and reference Daniel Estulin’s book, Shadow masters : how governments and their intelligence agencies are working with drug dealers and terrorists for mutual benefit and profit. Walterville, OR: Trine Day. 2010. ISBN 9780979988615, Chapter 5

It is worth noting that Bout was tried in Belgium and found not guilty (No reference to that in this profile ) and that he is yet to be convicted in USA and "presumed innocent till the court decides." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kiibaati (talk • contribs) 19:18, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Bout's military experience
I removed refernces to Bout working for the KGB (there is no reliable source). He was a major in the GRU (he was a major, I believe) (there are many sources, don't have time at this moment to find one - so I didn't state that).


 * So you do not have a source. But I do have a source that say he was a KGB major, and I cited this source - review in International J. of Intelligence and Counterintelligence, v. 20, page 309.Biophys (talk) 05:38, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

None of the sources that describe Bout as a "Major" or a "Lieutenant Colonel" in the KGB, or GRU, or any Soviet security organ can be traced to any original authority. In other words, they seem to be made up. Victor Bout was 24 years old when the Soviet Union fell - old enough to be a Lieutenant in the Air Force, which is what he says he was. Normally officers in the Soviet forces did not make Major until age 30 - and then only if they were "front runners". Because he was trained as translator, he may well have been assigned to intelligence or "intelligence-related" duties in the Air Force as a young lieutenant in his first tour - in other words it might not be inaccurate to describe him as affiliated with the GRU. But there is nothing to authoritatively indicate he served in the KGB prior to 1991. He may (perhaps it is likely he did) have some contact or association with the Russian intelligence services after 1991, but that would have been as a civilian and a private citizen, as he was in business for himself at the time. cw5301 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:01, 8 November 2011 (UTC).

KGB and GRU
Victor is listed both as KGB and GRU major in the article. It is impossible.

Article is very low standard. 93.80.238.35 (talk) 14:09, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

It isn't impossible, just extraordinarily unlikely, to the point of being ridiculous. Bout was 24 years old when the Soviet Union fell. Probably not since WWII are there any verifiable examples of anyone serving in both KGB and GRU before age 25. Victor is a very capable guy, but there is nothing to suggest he is THAT special. The only story that makes sense is what Victor himself claims - that he was a translator in the Soviet Air Force as a 22-23-year-old lieutenant before 1991. He also says he only spent "weeks" in Angola with the Soviet Air Force - this makes good sense as well. He would have been a translator attached to the VTA (Air Transport Service) who deployed to Angola to deliver weapons to the MPLA. cw5301 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:08, 8 November 2011 (UTC).

This doesn't make much sense
"Charged in 2000 with forging documents in the Central African Republic, Bout was convicted in absentia and the charges were later dropped."

Was he convicted or were the charges dropped? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.88.79.126 (talk) 22:20, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

It does make sense in the CAR. He was convicted in absentia and the charges WERE later dropped. They do that regularly there.

This whole article on Bout, however, doesn't make that much sense. Many, perhaps most, of the sources about his activities are exaggerated and the truth is pretty hard to nail down. All of it needs to be cleaned up to stick to verifiable sources and only include information that is solidly provable. There is plenty of solid information out there without including the wild tales and exaggerations. Cw5301 (talk) 16:16, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

His Appearances
I'm aware this likely isn't useable on the wiki article unless someone ever professionally investigates it, but... That man is not a Slav (Eurasian), or an Asian, or a Jew, or a Muslim. He is not Russian, nor from any other Slavic country. He is clearly a white European comprised of a mixture of Celt, German, and Latin, meaning he is actually from either mainland Europe or the United States of America. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.22.251.138 (talk) 12:58, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Are you sure he isn't Jewish? I thought he was Jewish.  And Jews usually look like Europeans (Ashkenazi anyway)

Alla Bout
The Russian WP has "активистам «Профсоюза Граждан России» присоединилась Алла Бут.": should she be included here as she has two mentions in the Russian article?--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 04:46, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Rtnews template
I've removed the Russia Today news template from the page, as it had raised concern because it pointed to a single trending news page, rather than a selection of trend pages, and after discussion in the appropriate places, it's easier to remove it than it is to add lots of other trend pages, as I don't know of any (don't have time to look). If there are any comments, concerns, or suggestions please reply on my talkpage, as I don't watch this page. Penyulap  ☏  02:24, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

header makes no mention of the other version
Russia's version is somewhat reflected in the article, but the header makes no mention of it at all, providing one-sided view. Can anyone rectify this situation? 109.129.17.12 (talk) 02:22, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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John Ashcroft
The firm also has a law firm under its umbrella, called the Ashcroft Law Firm.[33] In December 2014, the law firm was hired by convicted Russian arms trafficker Viktor Bout to overturn his 2011 conviction. Why is this missing in the article?--Wikipietime (talk) 13:28, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

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semi'd two days
I've semi'd for repeated addition of unsourced content and blip violations Valereee (talk) 17:52, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

meaningless statement in text
This text appears in Par. 3. "...the crime was due to the sting operation"

It does not make sense. I am not qualified to fix it, but whoever penned it might be. LarryWiki115 (talk) 01:09, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Digression in lead
"who was arrested in February 2022 at a Moscow airport for carrying vaporizer cartridges containing under one gram of hashish oil, which is illegal in Russia." -> "who was convicted of drug possession in Russia."

Bout is the subject here, not the details of Griner's case. 67.180.143.89 (talk) 16:19, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Confusing
Article says he "admitted that he would volunteer if given the opportunity and skills". How is a person "given skills"? David10244 (talk) 11:08, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

Needs to be edited.
Needs to be edited for facts and not a satirical piece. 2601:409:401:6650:F074:8BB:31FD:357B (talk) 03:42, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Heavy Cargo...
"when 200,000 AK-47 rifles went missing in transit from Bosnia to Iraq in May 2006. One of Bout's airlines was the carrier"

Say 4kg per rifle, thats 800t (scientific, not imperial) without packaging. With 50t per flight (for a Il-76TD) thats 16 one-way trips. A very busy month. Were the rifles maybe rerouted on the ground? 91.221.59.20 (talk) 11:58, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 December 2022
Peter Hain was not a British Prime Minister; he was secretary of state 194.17.229.129 (talk) 15:15, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. RealAspects (talk) 15:26, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Early Career
Who is Victor Bout

Victor Bout is a Russian businessman who became one of the world’s famous on the basis of fictitious tales and stories which were generated from one source -- a corrupt United Nations contractor who was generously paid for the UN contracts he arranged with the help of others for Victor’s companies, and then became mad for vengeance when Victor refused to continue paying him. All you know about Victor Bout is traceable to Johan Peleman’s report, a report that was written as a novel and made Peleman an expert, a hero, and a very wealthy man.

Victor Bout is a dynamic, charismatic, spontaneous, well-dressed, well-spoken, and highly energetic person who can easily communicate in several languages including Russian, Portuguese, English, French, Arabic, among several others. He is a born salesman with undying love for aviation and eternal drive to succeed.

Victor was born in the Soviet Union, the city of Dushanbe, in an average home and an average family. His father and mother were both employees in the administrative and accounting fields respectively. Victor went to schools in Dushanbe, the city where his parents were employed, prior to returning to Moscow. There he was drafted to do the mandatory military service as a translator serving in the Soviet Union and abroad, and that was how he got introduced to Africa.

Upon the collapse of the Soviet Union Victor decided to leave the military service and start his own aviation business, the field he was always fascinated by. And with some help from his family and his wife, Victor was able to purchase four Antonov-8 cargo aircraft that became the core and starting point of his fleet and his business.

Venturing into Africa was a matter of necessity rather than choice. Victor who had already invested all he had into the purchase of the AN-8 had no other choice but to operate in Africa, and particularly, Angola which was the first and only country to grant a certificate for civilian operations to the Antonov-8 which was only certified as military freighter until then. Pictured here is one of the AN-8 that started the fleet of Aircess.

The low cost of acquisition of aircraft and the required crew, and the availability of capacity in a highly diverse fleet provided Victor with unparalleled competitive advantage. And until the demise of his operations in Africa there was not any operator capable of competing with Victor Bout. Victor's operation turned the western European competitors to bitter enemies, and that was the major reason behind the unified efforts to drive him out of Africa, and the whole world. The stories of arms trafficking then became a snow ball, a huge matter that had no core; however, it got bigger with every roll, and plenty of rolling was added over more than 10 years. SpartanGhost21 (talk) 03:27, 10 December 2022 (UTC)


 * @SpartanGhost21 Is this a proposed addition to the article?    Why is it here?  Also, this is all unsourced.  David10244 (talk) 11:09, 11 December 2022 (UTC)


 * That unsourced stuff could well come from the Petersburg Brigade. It is a piece of propaganda from the Putin-Russia side. And Bout is not an ethnic Tajik from Stalinabad, as it was officially called around the time he was born.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:C0:DF08:4800:8096:D216:6D26:2A0F (talk) 10:32, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Brittney Griner
The section about the basketball player makes her crime sound insignificant as if the US wouldn't arrest somebody for that too. 89.100.127.214 (talk) 20:33, 8 December 2022 (UTC)


 * You may not realize this (being from Ireland) but there are a wide range of legalities of Marijuana in the USA depending on state. You have states where it completely illegal, states were medical use is permitted, states where it is decriminalized but not legalized, and states where you can buy it in stores and is completely legal. SlapperDapper (talk) 06:32, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * You may not realize this but when it comes to international travel all that matters is federal law. 50.39.192.55 (talk) 12:06, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Burn. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.4.143.234 (talk) 10:31, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

"Ethnic Tajik"
I think you have misunderstood the sources you referenced. This says he is "Tajik-born". This says he is a Tajik national. This and the others just calls him a Tajik but is likely referring to nationality. I am guessing it was just assumed he was a Tajikistani national because he was born there (at least according to his USSR passport). Some of these do not look like great sources anyway. Mellk (talk) 15:38, 11 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Then what do you want me to use as sources? And you can’t just say that it “likely” refers Tajik as a nationality. I think they mean that he’s a ethnic Tajik it’s even written in one of the sources. And I think that my claim becomes stronger when we read about viktor bouts involvement in Afghanistan. He said that he supported NRF ( Tajik political group ) and that he knew one of its leaders. He might’ve supported it cause it was a Tajik political group and he denied supporting the Taliban ( Taliban are very harsh towards Tajiks ). One of the sources also say that he spoke Tajiki. Broski.tajik (talk) 15:04, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I do not have time at the moment to assess the quality of the sources but they do not write "ethnic Tajik" anyway or refer to the ethnicity. Yes there is supposed to be a difference between Tajik/Tajikistani but the terms are usually conflated. I do not think there are any sources that would state he is ethnic Tajik, it is quote obvious he is not. Mellk (talk) 19:01, 15 June 2023 (UTC)