Talk:Vilfredo Pareto/Archive 1

Make "Pareto" a disambiguation page
The article Pareto currently redirects to here, but a disambiguation page should be created instead, like in the german wikipedia, which is fantastic in this respect.
 * Done Titus Flavius 21:55, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 16:50, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 04:32, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Vilfredo Pareto's view on elitism
According to Andrew Heywood's book Politics (an introductory book to Political Science), it is stated that "Classical elitists, such as Vilfredo Pareto (1848-1923), Gaetano Mosca (1857-1941) and Robert Michels (1876-1936), tended to take the former positipn" where the former position stated earlier was that "elite rule... is an inevitable and desirable feature of social existence."

Hence, Pareto had some views on Political Science that should be mentioned as the current version of the article seems to indicate that he was only an economist. - Zuracech Lordum —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zuracech lordum (talk • contribs) 18:02, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

He also was an industrialist and once directed an Ironworks. Probably his attitude towards markets was influenced by his losing his shirt on the London Metals Market (According to Mandelbrot)

Help clean this up
I've just done a bunch of badly needed cleanups to this very messy article, but more is needed. A lot of it has no links. The article appears to start over from the beginning several times. Michael Hardy 19:56, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Fixed??? Probably that is the result of folks who feel strongly about the guy -- I noticed that there were remnants of vastly contrasting views of the guy on the page User:Chris Holte

I've reduced the egregious overlinking of this article by removing repeated links and links to plain English words per WP:OVERLINK and datelinks per WP:MOSNUM. I will check back regularly as I did tonight to make sure that this sort of clutter is not reintroduced. Please link only to the most relevant concepts, not to anything that comes along. Thanks. Ground Zero | t 05:36, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Championing something posthumously?
The "Economics and sociology" section reads, "His observations about the Pareto distribution had changed him from an ardent free enterprise apologist to somewhat of a socialist, and after his death a champion of Italian and other fascists." How could he champion something after his death? Either this makes no sense or should be reworded. --Seth Goldin (talk) 04:11, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Fascism section
The Fascism section reads like an apology, not like an encyclopoedic article. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem like any of these are under dispute:

- Fascists (especially Mussolini) claimed him as one of their own

- He held hold bourgeois democracy in contempt

- He believed that inequality of wealth was not only universal, not only inevitable, but a force for positive good (e.g. by starving the weak)

- He accepted a post in Mussolini's government

Now, I took all of these facts from this article -- but their significance was constantly being diminished, which ends up sounding rather ridiculous.

To my friends on the antifascist left, it's possible to admit that he was a brilliant economist, even though he was, if not a Fascist, enthusiastic about their rise to power, and shared much ideology with them.

To my friends who believe that Pareto was a brilliant economist, it's possible to admit the converse: for instance, that shared much ideology with Fascism...yes, he was describing how things actually were -- that's a statement of fact -- but when he went further to /justify/ the status quo as a Social Darwinist force for good, that's ideology...so admitting flaws in the ideology do not in any way negate his assertions of fact -- which were often correct, insightful, valuable to the (human) race as a whole, etc.

So, does someone with a better grasp on the topic than I want to work on cleaning up that section?

Thanks, 184.17.183.222 (talk) 02:16, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Fascism
"His theories influenced Benito Mussolini and the development of Italian fascism." is a total nonsense. {Quotes exist that contradict this statement by Popper, Mussolini, and others. Chris Holte} In the contrary whole Pareto's works is against fascism. Pareto is a frustrated liberal who fell in pessimistic vision of society. << the two are not mutually exclusive propositions .... Need proof of that if it is to be asserted. My readings show that whatever Pareto felt, he wrote some pretty incendiary things that were seized on by Mussolini and made a part of his platform. Face it, the guy is like Georges Sorel, someone whose ideas were seized on by all sides in their struggles with each other and to get heard. Sorel self identified as a Leftist, but was also admired by Mussolini. Mussolini was a smart thug. __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ "But many modern historians reject the notion that Pareto's thought was essentially fascistic...."

The thought-process evident in this clause is backwards. The question should not be whether Pareto's though was essentially fascistic but the reverse, the extent to which Mussolini was influenced by Pareto, and in what ways. The claim that Mussolini's economic policy in early years was one of minimal government influenced by Pareto may be true, but was this the ultimate form that Mussolini's economic policy took? If Lawrence Dennis is any guide, then no. Your Buddy Fred Lewis (talk) 19:45, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160304204438/http://statprob.com/encyclopedia/VilfredoFederigoSamasoPARETO.html to http://statprob.com/encyclopedia/VilfredoFederigoSamasoPARETO.html

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Removed unverified claim
I just removed the claim "Pareto was a lifelong opponent of Marxism" from the article, as I was actually curious about his words on the matter but couldn't find them through the link provided.

I have no doubt on the accuracy of the claim, but I think if something is worth including in an article, it shouldn't be much of a problem to find an actual verifiable quote from a primary source instead of an opinion article by some blogger whose name I couldn't find on Google and on a website that hasn't been updated since 2015.

Whether his alleged opposition was "lifelong", all-encompassing or even what exactly is meant by "Marxism" is not clear from the statement, nor the link.

The claim seemed like a clear case of undue weight and possibly reading into the text. Having written several books on socialist systems I am sure using such a vague and general statement is not a fair summary of his opinions and views on the topic, which may deserve their own subsection. Kilgore T (talk) 03:49, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Pronunciation of Surname
For the British, it says 'pa-RAY-toh, -EE-' but I don't understand what the -EE- is trying to indicate after the comma.

Reading the linked page on that style of pronunciation didn't explain the meaning of a separate 'word' separated by a comma. Ralph Corderoy (talk) 13:13, 23 February 2023 (UTC)