Talk:Vineland

Location and meaning of Vineland
I am curious why the article asserts that the city of Vineland is located in the Anderson Valley. I got the impression reading the novel that Vineland was in northern Mendocino county. Pot production is a much larger part of the local economy in northern Mendocino than southern (at least now), and frequent references are made to characters going north to cities in Humboldt county (like Eureka). I don't recall any references to places in southern Mendocino. It seems clear that Vineland is also the name of the county (i.e. Mendocino county) in the novel, in addition to being a city. There is a list of northern California counties early on in the text, which includes Vineland but notably omits Mendocino.

As for the meaning of the name Vineland, it seems more likely to me that it is a reference to blackberry and wild grape vines (ubiquitous in Mendocino) than vineyards. There are no references to wine production anywhere in the novel, but a memorable discussion of blackberries at the family reunion at the end. Additionally, wine production tapers out in southern Mendocino county, whereas the action of the novel, in my opinion, would seem to be further north. Of course, Pynchon was surely aware of the similarity to Vinland as well.

Cheers, Justinleif 18:32, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Comparison with The Grapes of Wrath
I read this book immediately after reading The Grapes of Wrath, so I'm aware I may not hold a NPOV. Nonetheless I was struck by the similarities between the two books - references to the fecundity of the landscape, suppression of the labour unions, a population in flux. Would it be appropriate to draw such a comparison within the main article?

Would appreciate some advice --Arpley88 22:50, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

POV -- no personal assessments or reviews on the book please.
There is a serious, serious problem in this article in that "fascist" traits of the "Nixonian repression" are two concepts that are, at best, opinion. It is beyond question that the USA in the 1960s and 70s was one of the most free and open societies in all human history, and, therefore, the use of these terms is highly suspect in what is supposed to be an objective scholarly article.

Secondly, the claims that some people believe the title of the novel refer to a town in New Jersey or a Frank O'Hara poem should be referenced by sources, footnotes, and quotes. Just exactly who is it that makes these claims? And why?Conichikawa (talk) 13:31, 3 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree that "fascist" is POV, but it is no more POV than saying "it is beyond question that the USA in the 1960s and 70s was one of the most free and open societies in all human history," because any number of thinkers in the period and since then have questioned exactly that notion. In fact, there were rather a lot of folks about at the time who were vehemently denying that notion, and backing it up with quite public deeds; perhaps you've heard of this. Referring to the "fascist Nixonian Repression" at least has the benefit, a) of being a quote from the book, and b) accurately expressing the opinions of the sorts of real-life group the novel is fictionally representing. Regardless of whether you agree with the assessment, the novel claims the era was fascist, so it seems relevant to point that out. Perhaps there is a more elegant way to do so.75.128.173.10 (talk) 20:21, 24 October 2012 (UTC)MOB

I deleted the rampant POV in this article. Wikipedia rules prohibit editors from writing in articles their personal opinions on works of art. All opinions must be from recognized critics and be accompanied by citations. You may not simply offer up your own assessment or review on a book. That is against policy. Well now it's been deleted.

Yes, thank you. I hate seeing this stuff on Wikipedia; it is NOT a forum.Vonbontee (talk) 08:30, 19 June 2009 (UTC)


 * "I hate seeing this stuff on Wikipedia." It's what's known as liberal arts. Discussing a fiction book and the book itself concerns nothing else but opinions. That is how we know whether it is indeed a "work of art?" That can only be determined by the summation of many opinions. Get an education, please. You might start by considering what is fiction, and how best to approach critical thinking about it. Mea (talk) 05:18, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Postmodern tale of cultural tumult, social upheaval, rock music and drug use
This addition from June 2006 which describes the novel as a "postmodern tale of cultural tumult, social upheaval, rock music and drug use." The edit was later replaced with the pointless "postmodern tale of life". I've restored it as it may have a point, although needing some referencing and further argumentation.--Sum (talk) 20:12, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 10:00, 30 April 2016 (UTC)