Talk:Violet wand

How does it work
How do violet wands work? The description makes them sound like a fluorescent tube, in which case the following statement may be untrue, depending upon the gas.


 * One popular misconception is that violet wands produce ultraviolet light, and sometimes violet wands are erroneously called "Ultraviolet wands". Violet wands do not produce any significant amount of ultraviolet light and do not cause UV burns.

Mercury spectrum tubes (a low pressure version of fluorescent tubes) are known to emit UV light and users are recommended to not stare at them for long, or to use protective eyewear.


 * However, the glass electrodes do generate ozone and nitrogen oxides, giving your skin the well known "ozone smell."

It may be worth putting a note in the safety section that ozone should be avoided by those with respiratory diseases, such as asthma (see tropospheric ozone).

--zandperl 15:22, 30 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree that any dangers of these devices should be made clearer. Placing one near the brain, as a hairdresser might?  How many brain cells might that destroy?  In the handle there's reportedly a high ratio winding, similar to a Tesla coil, to up the voltage, which creates the tube's arc.  Similar devices are used by TV repair people to test for a leaking CRT no longer under vacuum.


 * Coupling hairdresser use in the same sentence with erotic stimulation, making the concept seem somehow "exciting", seems a not-very-wise association for anyone to make.


 * Regarding UV light, the glass used on various kinds of tubes apparently affects this. Some neon tubes use a mix of lead in the glass  to decrease emission of harmful frequency bands, versus a purer form of borosilicate or pyrex to increase UV.  It's unknown what type of glass is used for the inert-gas tubes of these devices.  It's also unknown what type of gas is used inside the tube, though that likely changes the color of the emitted light.


 * Curiously, UV light treatment is apparently still given by doctors to some people's scalps for certain severe dandruff conditions, I believe those devices have a comb and bulb combined, may require a prescription, and are not violet wands. Others keep their hair quite short and spend some measured time with their scalp in the sun for the UV light it provides naturally.


 * 71.128.192.243 (talk) 19:13, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

references?
Any reference for it being called a "quack medical" device.--Crossmr 22:16, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

How do violet wands work?
Violet wands/wand electrodes do not produce measurable amounts of UV light, unlike the valid concern stated for mercury tubes. As a manufacturer (not just a retailer) who makes sure our products undergo rigorous testing and constant research, we have documentation on the output values for UV, ozone, wattage, amps, volts, how deep the current penetrates flesh, etc. Even the ozone produced by a violet wand is within OSHA guidelines, the interference also within FCC requirements. Strictly speaking, violet rays and violet wands are not precisely the same thing as there are construction differences between the two (as well as difference in purpose and consumer use); violet rays are prohibited from manufacture with their original antique design and purpose (US FDA ruling, 1954) while violet wands are legal to manufacture, own, use and sell in every state in the US.

There are currently only two violet wand manufacturers in North America.141.151.219.15 16:49, 13 October 2006 (UTC)Violetwanda141.151.219.15 16:49, 13 October 2006 (UTC)|13:25, August 28, 2006}}


 * You're probably long gone, but it would be helpful, since you know the voltage and amperage, as well as the depth of penetration, to impart some knowledge regarding this device's safety with regard to "hairdresser" usage, and use on or near the scalp and head or brain. It would also be helpful to know more about the glass composition of the inert-gas bulb, as well as the specific mix, and relative ratios, of gases used therein.71.128.192.243 (talk) 19:13, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Violetwanda: Checking in again, if late. 7/9/09. I could do that, and give you exact specs on both types of devices. The antique violet ray, and the modern violet wand. But there would be two sets of specifications and figures, plus a third set of specs on the beauty high frequency devices used for hair dressing if you wanted that. We are making the glass tubes for replacements for the antiques, and for the beauty industry as well and they have different compositions themselves too. Depth of penetration as regards safety is much much lower for the hairdressing machines and tubes, and much higher from the antique violet rays. How about if I would indicate a range in specs that covers all three devices, plus a range of specs for the gas tubes? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.37.21.204 (talk) 16:34, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Violetwanda: 05/14/10 Ideally, this piece on violet wands and violet rays should be separated into two articles. Violet rays are antique 'quack' medical devices with a specific set of frequencies meant for alternative medical therapies. Violet wands are modern made devices specifically manufactured for erotic stimulation. They both have common components and history but are as different (and as similar) as computer monitors and televisions. Like computer monitors and televisions, they have people who use product A for product B's purpose and vice versa through some modification. But when you are talking violet wand, you are defining an adult product specifically for erotic stimulation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.59.248.113 (talk) 18:22, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Can you add our Link to this page ?
Hi - We have a huge range of Violet Wands online to suit all budgets and tasts. (removed commercial link)  Probably the only one on the net specialising in classic and antique Violet Wands —Preceding unsigned comment added by NickandMorphia (talk • contribs) 13:33, September 1, 2006
 * Unless your link actually adds some valuable content to the article, no. Wikipedia is not a collection of links, or a vehicle for advertising a business.--Crossmr 19:17, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

"The well known ozone smell"
A completely unhelpful phrase for what's meant to be an *explanatory* article! 81.159.57.18 23:21, 11 May 2007 (UTC)


 * It's a meaningful phrase to me, as I know what O3 smells like.71.128.192.243 (talk) 19:13, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Violetwanda
Clarified difference between antique alternative medical use violet rays, and violet wands which are modern devices manufactured specifically for fetish use. Fetish Violet wand manufacturers are using modern components and results are dissimilar to antique medical violet rays. Am still willing to separate the article (as I stated above, May 2010) as the two devices are similar, but not the same, if it is thought that would be needed. Original 'single source' article that this wiki is based on, was mine pre-2000. Will return and provide citations to updated articles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.59.248.113 (talk) 08:26, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Quack or useful?
I'm familiar with the old violet rays being called quack devices. But wouldnt ozone and nox give them a topical antibacterial antifungal effect? And would their ability to irritate not give some counterirritant effect?

82.31.207.100 (talk) 22:37, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Logically, that would follow, since the antique violet rays are very similar to their modern cousins. However, the FDA, pursuant to a 1954 lawsuit filed in 1951 against Master Electric Co. in Illinois, does not permit any medical claims to be used in regards to violet ray devices. The FDA permits certain limited claims to be made in regards to skin stimulation, antibacterial and oxygenation, only by FDA approved beauty devices known as high frequency machines, and only under the use of a licensed aesthetician. (ps to wiki, again, would be happy to separate this article that covers all related devices, into individual articles for each type of device.) Violetwanda  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.59.248.113 (talk) 19:39, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Undid revision
Undid revision where educational group link was removed as possible 'advertisement'. The Violet Wand guild is the only educational group on the erotic use of the violet wand, and is a not for profit group with no commercial basis. The information for the wiki article on violet wands was taken originally from this group's information articles as the single source cited. The link for the Guild has been on this wiki since it was written from their original content. violetwanda

Undid revision
Undid recent revision which included misspellings, removed a commercial notation of a brand of a rare electrode size that does not enhance the article and was not accompanied by citation, and undid the vandalistic removal of the article's source citation. February 9, 2011 violetwanda

Scheduled edit
This article is slated to be separated into two separate articles, one on the antique quack medical device known as a violet ray, and one on the BDSM sex toy known as a violet wand. While the two share some technological similarities, they are not the same, nor used for the same purposes, and the article creates confusion. violetwanda

Undid revision
Undid revisions without cites from unknown contributor that included info on uv output. VWs produce no measureable uv according to original article source (single source from which this article information was gathered). Unknown also removed the cited source for this article- reinstated. Some information was posted that was true for violet rays, but not violet wands. Save that specific info for when the article is separated into the two. Feb 27, 2011. violetwanda —Preceding undated comment added 08:05, 28 February 2011 (UTC).

Separation into two articles : violet ray
Completed the separation into two articles: violet ray for the antique quack medical device and violet wand for the modern bdsm sex toy. Questions for editors, now that the article has been separated, more information could be included on their use, safety, output etc, as has been discussed previously. What type of use information (if any) should be expanded upon? Violetwanda (talk) 10:15, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Undid Revisions
Removed commercial cite, added non-commercial citation for additional techniques information that was added by Zotdragon on 30 April. Violetwanda (talk) 05:16, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

At Violetpanda. Welcome to Wikipedia! As always, your contribution is appreciated. As you are a brand new editor and made your very first edit on this article, I would like to give you a hand in getting started. But FYI, I undid your revision to Violet wand Article. All edits should be verifiable and/or be referenced with accompanying citations. Erotec most definitely did manufacture violet wands, from c. 1995-2001, and this is referenced and cited and verifiable in hard print material, so should remain. While opinions may be in question, and web materials may be questionable as well, properly cited referenced material should not be removed. Where there is a differing opinion or contrasting statement to referenced material, we can add it with an equally weighty cited reference and present it as such. I hope that helps! Awolnetdiva (talk) 18:19, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Copyright Violation/complete content removal
Aug 31, user 98.141.6.43 removed the complete content of this article and replaced its entiretly with unrelated copyrighted material from www.cayce.com/vray.htm, a site about antique quack medical instruments popularly called 'violet rays'. Article was successfully reverted by Xiglofre. This violet wand page is about a modern sexual device known as a violet wand. Please post about the antique quack medical devices known as violet rays at the related wiki but again, do not repost material from protected sources. Awolnetdiva (talk) 05:35, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Request for Citation
Added citation requested. Minor edit. Re-added citation, linked to proper URL that shows specs, and changed link wording to 'specifications' from 'definitions' for clarity. @Yototrip, single citation is a minor edit. A major edit would be a substantial revision to the page. Agreed citation needed, added and cleaned up. Would rather not link to a commercial company's page with their manufacturing specs if we don't have to, but this info is the same. Awolnetdiva (talk) 22:34, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

The device pictured, an "Erotec Violet Wand, circa 2000," is an Electro-Technics BD-10A High Frequency Generator
The device pictured at the top of the article, labeled as an "Erotec Violet Wand, circa 2000," is actually an Electro-Technics BD-10A High Frequency Generator with the Electro-Technics label cleverly obscured - see http://www.electrotechnicproduct.com/Images/products/bd-10a.jpg. (This is the device used by a creationist science teacher to burn crosses on students' arms - see the the Wikipedia article "John Freshwater.") Paulburnett (talk) 14:40, 7 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I can see the similarity, but I have a device that looks like the one in the article except that it's black, and it also does not have a label of any kind as the one in your link. To say the device in the article "is actually" the one in your link can't really be proven. HalJor (talk) 18:04, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Look on the flat base. If it says "BD-10," and has this bakelite housing then it's the same Bleadon-Dun Violetta device currently used everywhere, and variously called "Quack medical violet wand," "Violet ray," "Tesla Coil," "Oudin Coil," "Spark Coil," "Vacuum Tester," "Insulation Tester," etc. 208.38.199.57 (talk) 01:39, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Appearance: There are many manufacturers of violet wands, both inside and outside the US, in Europe and in Asia, and most of them look very similar since they have similar function. The only company to make a red body violet wand was Erotec, which is no longer in business. John Freshwater: The device that was used to cause burns has been described in all news sources only as a tesla coil which is dissimilar. Violet wands can sometimes be based on technology similar to that of tesla coils, but they can also be electronic. It would be ambiguous to link such diverging devices together. Awolnetdiva (talk) 05:32, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * If you think that the internal workings of your device are completely different than Violetta BD-10, you need to open it up and take photos. Electro-technic Products has been selling these Violetta units for decades, they're widely used in science and industry, and for example complete repair parts are still available, showing the internal design is still the same as the late 1930s version.  They're sold for plasma surface-treatment of plastics, leak-testing during physics/chemistry glassblowing, gas leaks in neon signs, testing plastic insulation in storage tanks, and various tasks in physics classrooms.  *Do we need separate pages for each use of BD-10 device?!!*  In our chem department we have about ten of these, and I've repaired several.  The Electrotherapy Museum provides a brief history of Violetta/Cen on their site.  The BD-10 was sold as Energex and Cesco products.  208.38.199.57 (talk) 01:23, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Note that the modern bakelite violet wand is actually a late-model Bleadon-Dunn Violetta model "BD-10" device. Most of these still have the model number "BD-10" molded into the flat end, but I've encountered one without it, yet the inner parts were no different. After Bleadon-Dun folded, manufacture was later taken up by Electro-Technic products. For example, here's a (instruction manual from Chicoago Scientific), still selling the same Violetta violet ray as an educational "Vacuum Tester" and high-voltage generator. 208.38.199.57 (talk) 01:23, 18 January 2015 (UTC)


 * There are multiple manufacturers of violet wands globally, and this photo is a good representation of the product, though this particular model ceased manufacture in 2001 with the Erotec company owner's death. I can somewhat see including a photo of a second model and body type from another manufacturer as well, to show there are different makes and models---EXCEPT does it serve any purpose other than to show there are multiple manufacturers? It is widely known that for every product on the planet, there are multiple makes and models by different manufacturers, and this would be no different on this product especially as it is not patented. But I can see your point that including a second photo of a different style may be helpful for people like yourself who find it ambiguous.Awolnetdiva (talk) 19:04, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Anonymous edit for 'ad'
Anonymous editor removed fiction section for supposedly being advertising. I reverted and added an award-winning, major erotic fiction writer's work to show an additional example, as a measure of its popularity in fiction. Awolnetdiva (talk) 05:47, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

An anonymous editor made the same removal citing the books were 'non-notable'. Undid the removal this date. Both authors, and Laura Antoniou in particular, are award winning and major authors. Antoniou's awards in erotic, lesbian and sado-masochistic fiction are substantial.Awolnetdiva (talk) 05:46, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Additional resources
14 January, User DecryptedNight (DecryptedNight) added information resources which appear primarily commercial. Will review the links, but they are pending removal.Awolnetdiva (talk) 21:34, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Reviewed links and allowed to remain. First is not a commercial website and contains extensive information. 2nd link the site is commercial but the link is to a library of expansive articles. Awolnetdiva (talk) 04:29, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Undid revisions
Undid revisions by IP address that removed valuable external links and replaced them with a commercial violet ray link. Remember that the information pages of a commercial site need to add substantially different information-rich content to be acceptable. In any case, violet ray information links belong here: Violet ray, and not on Violet wand. While similar, violet rays are antique quack medical devices, while violet wands are modern bdsm/kink toys. Awolnetdiva (talk) 17:38, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Undid revisions
Undid removal of important source information, citations by Drmies. Drmies, While these may look like 'spammy' links to people not familiar with the topic, the citations and references are original sources that are directly responsible for the standard terminology, done the research, developed the information, and are the vetted and recognized expert 'go-to' sources. Their expert info is found and/or published nowhere else (yet). Please discuss first before making major revisions that remove references to the original sources of the material referenced by the article. Thanks! Awolnetdiva (talk) 19:25, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

undid revisions again. PLEASE discuss. This article has reached consensus over a period of years, and such a major edit as you wish to do, should ALSO reach consensus before being made. Use good wiki protocol, discuss rationale for making the edit, use the talk page... Editors knowledgeable in this subject matter consider it important to this subject matter to make sure the original sources for the information in this article are properly referenced, and there is probably a better way to do it, (such as placing the citations in the body to cite where the information originated from )but removal should be discussed in the talk page per wiki etiquette. Should it not? Thank you. Awolnetdiva (talk) 05:25, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

Drmies major change of article
Drmies, 'we' is me as a member of the kink community who is knowledgeable about this obscure niche device and its history. If I was a transgender person explaining the importance to 'us' of certain links on a wikipedia about transgenderism, then you'd understand. If I was a gay person explaining to a straight wikipedia editor, the importance of linking to a web article about Stonewall, you'd understand. Perhaps you'll take a relook at the links after I explain. Or better still, perhaps you can help decide how the important information should go into the article if you don't agree with it as links.

The violet wand is a relatively new invention in the US. Donnie Rice of Erotec began manufacturing them in the late 1990s, but they were little known or used. AFter his death in 2001, they gained a popularity through a woman with the scene name Violetwanda. She is the Henry Ford of violet wands and you can not talk about violet wands without talking about her. Her company invented most of the violet wand products in use today. And the techniques to go with them. If we said Henry Ford invented the assembly line for automobile manufacturing, this would be the same thing. She trained a US-wide network of demonstrators to teach people how to use it, and like Henry Ford, made this obscure device well known and popular in the kink community. The link to her information page, www.violetwanda.net is not commercial and nothing is for sale there, though from her information site, she does link to her two company's websites, completely different domains. But her information page is where everyone goes to get the information found everywhere else. Its an original source for extensive violet wand information.

Another bit of information (or link) that should be there is the one to the International Violet Wand Guild at www.violetwands.org. That is not a commercial site, and you should relook. There is NOTHING for sale there. They do product reviews sometimes. It is a group of several thousand violet wand users, and a board of directors with an elected president. Since violet wands are new (late 1990s) there is no government regulation or standards, and they are electric devices that are used on humans. The International violet wand guild set the standards for their manufacturing and safety, and set the definitions and terminology. It too, is an original source for violet wand information.

The only link that you left, Uncle Abdul's book, contains 2 paragraphs on violet wands as it was written while they were still obscure. Since they were developed in the late 1990s, not much appears in print about them, and that is the only book with an ISBN that contains anything. But it is a mere 2 paragraphs and not inclusive. The bulk of violet wand information is put forth in modern technology--on the web in articles by experts. The kink community recognizes these expert sources and they are important to it. The only link you left, is not representative of the available information or history of the device.

I do understand your point about some of the other links. The author Laura Antoniou is probably unknown to you, but she is the FOREMOST kink author and fiction writer of BDSM and recognized throughout the community. Her use of the violet wand in fiction was notable because it shows that this once obscure device is growing in popularity. Remember, that 50 Shades was a self-published book. Technology moves forward. Self-published books have an increasing place and should not be ignored.

I understand that you do not know any of this since the BDSM community is largely self-contained. I also understand that wikipedia is not a collection of links, except as wikipedia says: "External links in an article can be helpful to the reader, but they should be kept minimal, meritable, and directly relevant to the article." The International Violet Wand Guild as the major source for violet wand information, and the lead developer Violetwanda, are both meritable and directly relevant. So Im sure you'll work with the importance of these two sources and help find a way as a reputable editor to include the information, even if its not in links. Threatening to report is useful only to get what you want... but what you want is not relevant to this device or to the people who use it and want to look up information on it.

So, how best to get the two most relevant information into back into the article? That in the early 200s, The International Violet Wand Guild set the standards for the manufacture and safety of violet wands, and set the definitions and terminology. And that the Steve Jobs/Henry Ford in the development of violet wands, making them available to a wide audience, and the development of most products associated with them, is a kink community woman who goes by the alias Violetwanda? There isn't a wikipedia page about her, since she's still living.

Lets come to a consensus on how to present the important information. It doesn't have to be links if you are dead set against them, but its vital and relevant information. Thanks! Awolnetdiva (talk) 18:51, 28 September 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Awolnetdiva (talk • contribs)
 * Everything stands or falls with reliable sources. Company sources are not reliable sources. Drmies (talk) 17:13, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Why is it called "violet"?
Since it's not related to ultraviolet, why this choice of word? Equinox ◑ 20:20, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
 * because they generally glow with a violet light, as shown here: . IdreamofJeanie (talk) 20:53, 5 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Maybe this should be mentioned in the article. I don't think it's there. Equinox ◑ 06:58, 6 November 2016 (UTC)