Talk:Vitamin/Archive 4

Photo of vitamins
User:Iztwoz, would you please explain your revert of a new photo for this article? Your edit summary says it "doesn't match" Template:Infobox drug class? That template has no photo. -SusanLesch (talk) 16:19, 17 June 2018 (UTC)


 * It's in the infobox ..? --Iztwoz (talk) 16:22, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Sorry I can't understand your question. Can you please explain what is supposed to match what? -SusanLesch (talk) 16:25, 17 June 2018 (UTC)


 * It wasn't a question it was a query of your not understanding. At the top of the infobox containing the photograph is a template or heading saying Drug class. Hope that helps. --Iztwoz (talk) 16:29, 17 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Iztwoz: I see. Thank you for explaining. Have you ever heard of the concept of getting one's vitamins from food? I live in the United States where that is the prevailing wisdom. The Dietary Guidelines for Americans says "An underlying premise of the Dietary Guidelines is that nutritional needs should be met primarily from foods." So why isn't a photo of a varied diet more appropriate than a bottle of pills? -SusanLesch (talk) 16:41, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Of course I am aware that a good diet is the best source of vitamins and minerals - I did not put the info box on the page - I actually do not see the need for it as the page is about vitamins not about any drug. --Iztwoz (talk) 16:44, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Can you think of another template that might make more sense? Quickly, I looked at the individual vitamins and find they are all in infoboxes drugbox, drug, or drug class. -SusanLesch (talk) 16:50, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Have had another look and one of the supporting projects is Dietary supplements - and since there is a lot of related info on the page I would say it's best left as it is.--Iztwoz (talk) 16:57, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I can't agree to leave this article "as it is." You're right though, the whole section "Society and culture" is about dietary supplements. -SusanLesch (talk) 17:12, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * P.S. Correcting my earlier mistake. Niacin is template Chembox. Because it's not on the WHO Model List of Essential Medicines? Or because WikiProject Chemistry got there first? I can't read what global vitamins even means because of a server error. -SusanLesch (talk) 00:47, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

New biochemical functions section
One paragraph of the Lead is devoted to the biochemical functions of vitamins - and yet no section with that title has existed. I have created one, and added a misplaced sentence from another section to "justify" the existence of the section. Hopefully this section will be expanded by those with interest and knowledge of this subject. IiKkEe (talk) 10:17, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

Missing words?

 * In much of the develo are rare;

There seems to be part of a word and one or more additional words missing there, lost in some edit along the way. I'm guessing it's supposed to be something like:


 * In much of the developed world, vitamin defficiencies are rare;

but I don't actually know. Jim Henry (talk) 08:43, 24 January 2019 (UTC)


 * I repaired that. You are welcome to fix stuff yourself. I'm guessing that what happened here was the text was grammatically correct, one editor made an addition, another removed that addition, but in the process, removed too much. David notMD (talk) 13:14, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Good Article Reassessment?
I am of the opinion that this article should not be GA (It passed GA in 2006, underwent a cursory GAR in 2009). However, rather then starting an individual GAR, or requesting a community GAR, I have started article improvements. Everyone welcome. This article gets >90,000 visits a month, so improvements are warranted. NOTE: As stated on my User page, I have a COI, in that I was a consultant to vitamin-selling dietary supplement companies. However, retired early 2019. During the time I was an active consultant, none of my clients knew that I was also a Wikipedia editor. None had ever asked me to edit Wikipedia. David notMD (talk) 02:26, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

Beta-carotene fortification?
Are there citations for beta-carotene fortification of foods? GMO? Grune 2010 documents use as food colorant, but not intended as a nutrient fortification. 'Golden rice' and 'Golden bananas' represent GMO efforts to increase beta-carotene intake in regions of chronic vitamin A deficiency, but as of 2018, these have approved by several governments but not yet implemented commercially. Are there existing government fortification programs? The Food Fortification Initiative (http://www.ffinetwork.org/index.html) lists countries that have retinol fortification programs, but does not show any with beta-carotene fortification programs. David notMD (talk) 11:41, 11 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Grune T, Lietz G, Palou A, Ross AC, Stahl W, Tang G, Thurnham D, Yin SA, Biesalski HK. Beta-carotene is an important vitamin A source for humans. J Nutr. 2010 Dec;140(12):2268S-2285S. doi: 10.3945/jn.109.119024. PMID: 20980645.

Why were flavonoids considered as a vitamin : P, but no longer
Table in Naming says "Vitamin P	Flavonoids	No longer classified as a vitamin" with no further explanation. There's nothing on it at flavonoid so can we here give some history on this ? Why/when were they proposed, and why/when/who-by were they reclassified as not a vitamin ? Better here than at flavonoid ? Vitamin P (disambiguation) says " referred to as Vitamin P from the mid-1930s to early 1950s" - naturally with no reference - so we could add the references here ? - Rod57 (talk) 10:09, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
 * My recommendation would be to add a history of "Vitamin P" to the Flavonoid article rather than to this article. In keeping with not having refs in the Vitamin article for each of the obsolete vitamin names. David notMD (talk) 15:23, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

History
Within History, created subsection about Nobel Prizes awarded for vitamin-related research. David notMD (talk) 14:19, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Vitamin vs vitamer
Hi David notMD,

Is it incorrect to call, say, retinal, a vitamin? --Black Walnut (talk) 14:22, 27 July 2020 (UTC).
 * Per the Retinal article, retinal and retinol can be converted to each other. Per the Vitamin article, retinal is in List table as a vitamer of vitamin A. David notMD (talk) 17:49, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
 * On other hand, tocotrienols considered vitamers of tocopherol (vitamin E) but are not interchangable as far as function. David notMD (talk) 18:32, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for your response, David notMD, but it doesn't give me sufficient clarity. Perhaps if I rephrase? My question is linguistic. If I hold a vial of pure retinal and tell someone "this vial contains vitamin molecules", would I be incorrect, given that retinal is a vitamer? &mdash;Black Walnut (talk) 14:22, 27 July 2020 (UTC).
 * For your example, valid to call retinal a vitamin. David notMD (talk) 00:29, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
 * To expand on this, not all vitamers are vitamins (the tocotrienol example), and substances that are not naturally found vitamers can be vitamins. An example of the latter is ascorbyl palmitate, which is vitamin C with a fatty acid attached. The FA is cleaved during the digestive process, freeing the vitamin C. David notMD (talk) 11:12, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Niacin (Vitamin B3) European Union Upper Level Correction
The European Union (EU) Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL) for Niacin (Vitamin B3) in the table is actually that of Nicotinic acid (one of the two types of Niacin. The other, Nicotinamide, has a UL of 12.5 mg/kg, which is not reflected in the table. This information was extracted from the same article (reference 38), sections 5.1 and 5.2.

Carlos Rosuero (talk) 22:52, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Vitamins and minerals: what requires which to work ?
Vitamins and minerals: what requires which to work ? I am sure, there are requiring connections. But I am not sure, it is a theme. Thanks. --Visionhelp (talk) 11:00, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

Human-centric
The intro seems to carefully define vitamins without narrowing the definition to vitamins necessary for humans only, but then the very next section is a table that lists the human vitamins, without even being labelled as such.

Obviously the human vitamins are of primary interest to most people who come to this article, but it still feels like the human-specific sections should be labelled as such, and that there should maybe be another section devoted to "vitamins in other species" maybe. (I'll note that I'm bringing this up because I came here because I was wondering if dogs have the same exact set of vitamins as humans.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Schnitzi (talk • contribs) 18:28, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Main differences are that many animals synthesize vitamin C; those that have gut fermentation of plants may get enough vitamin B12 from intestinal bacteria to not require a dietary source. Probably some others not essential for certain species. I doubt there are substance that could be considered as vitamins for non-human species but not for humans. David notMD (talk) 18:49, 24 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Let me mention here, please, it may not be vitamins, but at least micronutrients, trace elements, I at once fast can not work it out, please, just to note (for plants): Micronutrient deficiency ´Plants´.
 * --Visionhelp (talk) 19:40, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

Perhaps to ´External links´
--Visionhelp (talk) 11:03, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
 * U.S. Department of Agriculture: Vitamins and Minerals
 * National Institute on Aging: Vitamins and Minerals for Older Adults


 * First one more than the second one. As you can see from what I did, adding brackets at both ends and a title after the URL will show the title rather than the URL. David notMD (talk) 14:01, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

I am very sorry: this is touching into my (presentation of) talk. (I know to edit links these ways. To present it here this way is the (my) intention. Many do not know the ´Talk´-sections. If one likes to do these links that way in addition and/or in the article: OK. Appreciated. But, this way touching in into my talk text (presentation) I cannot accept, please. And also not this kind of teaching. This to me is very respectless. Thanks. Visionhelp (talk) 20:04, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

Why do we fall ill
Tell me about this..... 2405:204:A0A9:4B33:B6B3:3658:5B22:F0EE (talk) 14:25, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Talk pages are for queries about the article, not general questions. David notMD (talk) 14:54, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 8 January 2019 and 16 April 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Sgbroberg.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 12:30, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

And another thing - Etymology
I thought I was done, but this seems also relevant: in just about every article, it seems standard form to put the "Etymology" section immediately after the introduction, as people really really like to know about the history of a word before they read through about its meaning and use. But here, for some reason, Etymology is languishing at the very bottom of the article. I urge that it be moved up to its customary position as the first entry in the "contents". 2001:56A:F0E9:9B00:C90E:1955:4745:23C2 (talk) 06:13, 25 February 2022 (UTC)JustSomeWikiReader
 * Done. However, still needed: Some of the content in history section can be moved to Etymology. David notMD (talk) 15:51, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Fixes Required
Can't fix this cuz it's currently protected, and I'm not sanctified, as I generally just fix grammar, spelling, and obvious errors anyway. So, an obvious error in the "Nobel Prizes" section: the 1967 awards are entered twice, with different text and emphasis, the first time being out of chronological order prior to the 1938 award. When someone with access deals with the issue of the 1928 award noted above by someone like me who can't edit this, could they also please relocate and rationalize the entries for the 1967 awards. Thanks. 2001:56A:F0E9:9B00:C90E:1955:4745:23C2 (talk) 05:47, 25 February 2022 (UTC)JustSomeWikiReader
 * Done and done. David notMD (talk) 16:00, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Nobel section
This information should be added into the proper section: "The Nobel prize for chemistry for 1928 was awarded to Adolf Windaus “for his studies on the constitution of the sterols and their connection with vitamins”, the first person to receive an award mentioning vitamins." The Discovery of Vitamin D: The Contribution of Adolf Windaus, by George Wolf (in American Society for Nutritional Sciences. J. Nutr. 134: 1299–1302, 2004). --Nazroon (talk) 17:09, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Done David notMD (talk) 16:45, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

And Also, Regarding Promotion
Another addition should be to either link to, or I think better, simply repeat, in the "History of Promotional marketing" section, the following notes from the Niacin (as opposed to vitamin B3, both existing for whatever reason) article, about how and why the name Niacin came about, being very much about promotional marketing: "In 1942, when flour enrichment with nicotinic acid began, a headline in the popular press said "Tobacco in Your Bread." In response, the Council on Foods and Nutrition of the American Medical Association approved of the Food and Nutrition Board's new names niacin and niacin amide for use primarily by non-scientists. It was thought appropriate to choose a name to dissociate nicotinic acid from nicotine, to avoid the perception that vitamins or niacin-rich food contains nicotine, or that cigarettes contain vitamins."

Thanks again. 2001:56A:F0E9:9B00:C90E:1955:4745:23C2 (talk) 06:03, 25 February 2022 (UTC)JustSomeWikiReader
 * Done. David notMD (talk) 17:01, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

add /day as units in the table
units are mg/days you can just put in the table under "units"  a "(/days)".
 * Added consumption per day to two tables. David notMD (talk) 09:09, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Casimir Funk
Casimir Funk was actually American, not Polish. --2A01:36D:1201:494:C08D:1ECF:5FAA:1776 (talk) 07:28, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ Cannolis (talk) 12:56, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Actually, coined the term "vitamine" before he moved to the United States, so I removed "American". David notMD (talk) 15:47, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

Untitled
''Please add new sections at the END. If content is added in the wrong place, it might be moved, or, worse, it might never be seen.'' Sus — Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.147.28.106 (talk) 19:53, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

Vitamin
vitamin is an organic molecule (or a set of molecules closely related chemically, i.e. vitamers) that is an essential micronutrient that an organism needs in small quantities for the proper functioning of its metabolism. Essential nutrients cannot be synthesized in the organism, either at all or not in sufficient quantities, and therefore must be obtained through the diet. Vitamin C can be synthesized by some species but not by others; it is not a vitamin in the first instance but is in the second. The term vitamin does not include the three other groups of essential nutrients: minerals, essential fatty acids, and essential amino acids.[2] Most vitamins are not single molecules, but groups of related molecules called vitamers. For example, there are eight vitamers of vitamin E: four tocopherols and four tocotrienols. Some sources list fourteen vitamins, by including choline,[3] but major health organizations list thirteen: vitamin A (as all-trans-retinol, all-trans-retinyl-esters, as well as all-trans-beta-carotene and other provitamin A carotenoids), vitamin B1 (thiamine), vitamin B2 (riboflavin), vitamin B3 (niacin), vitamin B5 (pantothenic acid), vitamin B6 (pyridoxine), vitamin B7 (biotin), vitamin B9 (folic acid or folate), vitamin B12 (cobalamins), vitamin C (ascorbic acid), vitamin D (calciferols), vitamin E (tocopherols and tocotrienols), and vitamin K (phylloquinone and menaquinones).[4][5][6] 180.94.69.174 (talk) 11:24, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Does this mean you want to change the article? All you have done here is copy the lead paragraph. David notMD (talk) 12:05, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
 * In the beginning part, he changed the "are" to "is" and maybe they changed something else but I didn't read the whole text so I don't know Someone346 (talk) 13:53, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok I read a bit more and he changed more than that Someone346 (talk) 13:56, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The IP editor posted the above in July 2022 and has not made any edits since then. Are you thinkig of contributing to the Vitamin article? It is rated a Good Article and semi-protected, meaning that you cannot edit it until your account is more than four days old and you have made more than ten edits. David notMD (talk) 01:21, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'd love to contribute, but I can't for the reason you just said, my account's somewhat new. Someone346 (talk) 13:11, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 April 2023
The "Food sources" of Vitamin D2 and D3 has been swapped: Change source of D2 to "Fungi" Change source of D3 to "Fish, meat, offal, egg and dairy". Microbial Architect (talk) 07:44, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

✅. Next time, WP:DOIT. Zefr (talk) 15:54, 25 April 2023 (UTC)