Talk:Viva la Vida or Death and All His Friends/Archive 1

Track "Lost?"
Is it an acoustic version, or an alternative version?? Which is it's real lenght? Can anyone that have the japonese CD confim it? thx 201.17.200.170 (talk) 22:21, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 3:39  n i m b u s a n i a  09:37, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Was wondering the same, and evidently this page has answers --dannycas (talk) 01:55, 19 September 2008 (UTC)


 * That's just an acoustic version, not alternative. Smtchahal (talk &#124; contribs) 12:23, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Reference
Is anyone aware of the possible reference to King Louie XVI in this song? --Montaced (talk) 01:48, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * You're going to have to be a bit more specific, this is the album page. You mean Viva la Vida (song) or maybe Death and All His Friends? Or one of the other songs? I haven't listened to the whole CD yet, just Viva la Vida and Violet Hill (damn good song, that one). Flash Man999 (talk) 00:14, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Release Date
What the source for the release date of March 25th, 2008? 69.238.21.159 08:03, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * People seem to be changing the release date as they please, without giving a reasonable source. I vote we get rid of the 'released' date until it is actually confirmed Exxy (talk) 20:52, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Release date is definitely June 17, 2008 now. Soccernamlak (talk) 23:23, 18 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Now it's 11 June - source is coldplay.com/official mailing list.  Joseph C  Talk   07:35, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't see any evidence as to the North American release date being June 12. Both Amazon and iTunes seem to list the release dates as June 17 - Tuesday is the day music is always released in the U.S. Some of the singles from this album may already be out but I do not believe the entire album is yet available in the U.S. HotOne121 (talk) 02:44, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, the album is now available worldwide, don't know when it was actually released, but I got it about a month and a half ago. Flash Man999 (talk) 00:16, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Full title
According to Coldplay's official website the album's title is "Viva la Vida or Death and All His Friends" --gabspeck (talk) 04:53, 20 March 2008 (UTC)


 * 'Death and All His Friends' looks like a subtitle to me, just like Hail to the Thief's full title is Hail to the Thief (or, The Gloaming). I'm not sure if there are any guidelines on how we should handle this in article titles. Our article on Frankenstein: or, The Modern Prometheus is simply titled Frankenstein but Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb uses the whole thing. — Matt Eason (Talk &#149; Contribs) 12:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If so, then why do the quotations on the Coldplay website end AFTER the word "Friends" and not "Vida"? It's part of the title.  And the article has been accordingly modified to reflect that.  BGC (talk) 14:52, 20 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The quote marks were added after the message was first posted. I'm not arguing that it's not part of the title and I've already explained that our use of subtitles in article titles is inconsistent anyway so I don't care if it's part of the article title or not. — Matt Eason (Talk &#149; Contribs) 14:57, 20 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Rolling Stone.com reports it as Viva la Vida but then the official Coldplay website has it as  'Viva la Vida or Death and All His Friends' . Suppose we're just going to have to wait for Chris and co. to come out and confirm exactly what it is. Exxy (talk) 18:25, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The site has officially listed the title as Viva La Vida. Topperray (talk) 02:06, 11 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Rolling Stone couldn't have been wrong about the title of the album --Juliuscaesar100-44 (talk) 09:20, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Here are the facts: A March 18 article on Rolling Stone states, and quotes Chris Martin as saying, that the title is Viva la Vida. On March 19, the official website stated the title as Viva la Vida or Death And All His Friends, soon adding quotes around the entire phrase. An April 10 posting on the official site referred to the album as Viva la Vida. An April 11 article from Billboard refers to the album as Viva la Vida or Death and All His Friends. The article includes quotes from Chris Martin, suggesting he knew how Billboard was going to refer to the album. Now, you decide. 71.11.215.216 (talk) 00:13, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

The title is just "Viva la Vida". Death and all his friends was just another title that was under consideration. Futher more, only "Viva la Vida" is listed on coldplay official. --Longyuano (talk) 13:40, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, could somebody change this please? www.coldplay.com has confirmed that the title will be "Viva la Vida". (Mj92 (talk) 15:06, 16 April 2008 (UTC))

IT'S  VIVA LA VIVA PERIOD. I'LL TRY TO CHANGE IT. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.191.132.18 (talk) 03:19, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

There is an official press release by EMI now. This is an official press release (see below) and this definitely overrides the coldplay.com newsitems. So please, stop changing it back to just Viva La Vida. Hans (talk) 12:00, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

But, it's direct from Chris Martin. He says it in his interviews, and he's said "Viva la Vida" over and OVER. CHANGE IT TO VIVA LA VIDA.
 * Have you even READ the |press article? 'Viva la Vida' is the short title. The Full title is with the 'or Death and All His Friends'. This is quite a mouthfull, so it's normal people will shorten it in normal conversation, even in writing. Why in earth would the let EMI publish it with the full title if it's just 'Viva la Vida'? Without any source clearly stating the longer title has been dropped and it's just 'Viva la Vida', the full title will stay. Hans (talk) 08:26, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

"it's now viva la vida. look it up on the latest post of their official webpage —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.191.132.18 (talk • contribs)
 * 'Can this finally be the end of this dispute?' Apparently not. -- I need a name (talk) 22:51, 17 April 2008 (UTC)"

'''I posted these lines above from below to here because the big EMI thing isn't the big-ass deal breaker. The site with the band leader's writings count just as much.''' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.191.132.18 (talk) 04:20, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

The title is "Viva la Vida" because it is listed above the tracklisting announcement from April 10th. It specifically says VIVA LA VIDA....... then tracklisting, etc. I agree with everyone on this. Spooky873 (talk) 23:25, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
 * And more specifically on March 19 they wrote on the official site "The actual title of the album is... 'Viva la Vida or Death and All His Friends". They specifically wrote that this is the title, just as the EMI source states. A few weeks later, April 10, they made a new posts with the tracklisting. And because they shortened the title there, everybode started screaming that it's just 'Viva la Vida', ASSUMING' the rest has been dropped. While the EMI-source mentioned "Viva la Vida" as the title but "Viva la Vida or Death and All His Friends" as the full title as well. Assuming that is has been dropped vs genuine sourced material? It might change over time, but for now this is the proper way to go. Hans (talk) 09:10, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

'''Most albums have their name based on one song name on the tracklist. For the past 3, Coldplay has done this. So, when they posted Viva la Vida or Death and All His Friends, doesn't sound like they were in the process of selecting a title, with VLV and DAAHF as two possible, but seperate options? Plus, maybe there wasn't an internal message to EMI. Maybe they just looked at the site like us. And, of course, DAAHF isn't on the art. Thanks, and PLEASE READ THIS!!!!!!!!!! '''

If thats the album title then why isn't "or Death and All His Friends" not included on the album artwork itself? Spooky873 (talk) 20:42, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

The BBC are calling the title of the album "Viva La Vida Or Death To All His Friends". --TwentiethApril1986 (talk) 17:47, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * That's clearly a typo. -- I need a name (talk) 17:57, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

IT'S (JUST) VIVA LA VIDA= READ!
OKAY, ON THE OFCIAL WEBSITE, HE SAYS VIVA LA VIDA OR DEATH AND ALL HIS FRIENDS. NOTICE THE OR? THESE WERE TWO IDEAS. IT'S ONE OR THE OTHER, AND IN ALL OF THE NEWS, HE'S ONLY MENTIONED VIVA LA VIDA. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.191.129.191 (User talk:talk) 19:02, 30 March 2008 (UTC)


 * As mentioned above, there are quote marks around the whole thing. They're not two different ideas. — Matt Eason (Talk &#149; Contribs) 19:08, 30 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I noticed the quotation marks around both titles on their website. StevePrutz (talk) 23:45, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

in the site he said both things for the title, but he has now explained that the album is JUST Viva la Vida. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.235.145.82 (talk) 22:49, 14 April 2008 (UTC) Yeah. He also listed the tracks.

=
==========WHO CARES=============================--Avery50000 (talk) 23:51, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Title press release
This is an official press release: http://www.emigroup.com/Press/2008/press46.htm "Coldplay release their fourth album Viva La Vida or, to give it its full title, Viva La Vida or Death And All His Friends on Parlophone Records on June 16." Can this finally be the end of this dispute?--Hans (talk) 16:49, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I say yes; this is set in stone. I suggest we change the opening sentence to "Viva la Vida or Death and All His Friends, more commonly referred to as Viva la Vida, is the fourth studio album..."71.11.215.216 (talk) 21:45, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Ok, it has been sourced in the article now I see, so people hopefully stop messing with it.

But; the album page is currently named Viva la Vida or Death And All His Friends > this La should be in capitals. Page rename?Hans (talk) 18:55, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

4/10/08 coldplay.com says otherwise —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.191.132.18 (talk • contribs)

it's now viva la vida. look it up on the latest post of their official webpage —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.191.132.18 (talk • contribs)
 * "Can this finally be the end of this dispute?" Apparently not. -- I need a name (talk) 22:51, 17 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I think it is just too hard to say. The official press release and the official Coldplay sites are saying different things.  I think it's best and safest to say that the title is disputed in the article itself, and wait until someone solidly confirms what the title is.  I think this will be like Radiohead's Hail to the Thief, with a subtitle to the title which is and isn't part of the title at the same time. (Mj92 (talk) 02:09, 18 April 2008 (UTC))


 * Regardless of capitalisation elsewhere, the title (if it is the long version) should read Viva la Vida or Death and All His Friends. This is grammatically correct and is also according to the Wikipedia MoS, which states:
 * "In titles of songs or albums, and band names, the standard rules in the English language are:


 * Always capitalize the first word and last word in the title.
 * Do not capitalize coordinating conjunctions (and, but, or, nor), prepositions (to, over, in, for), articles (an, a, the), and the word to in infinitives shorter than five letters.
 * All other words are capitalized, including short verbs (Is, Are, Be, Do) and pronouns (Me, It, His)." Chris 42 (talk) 10:42, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Regardless how the offical source capitalizes? Hans (talk) 11:55, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I mean, now the "la" isn't capitalized, nor the "or", but the "And" is written in capital. Hans (talk) 11:57, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, regardless. These are standard rules and are adhered to throughout Wikipedia for other album articles — as well as the accepted grammatical format for titles of works of art. (Hence why The Dark Side Of The Moon is redirected to The Dark Side of the Moon, for example.) Unfortunately, the article has now had so many page moves that I'm not sure how to get it back. Perhaps an admin will oblige? Chris 42 (talk) 13:48, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * This seems to be taken care of now. Nice. Hans (talk) 08:29, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * But "Viva la vida" is not English, that I know, so should it follow the Spanish rules? In Spanish, only the first word is (necessarily) capitalised. For example: "Viva la vida or Death and All His Friends". Weird, I know. Antoncampos (talk) 13:25, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Info on the tracks
"Violet Hill": One of the strongest of the new songs, the band is considering giving it away as a special promotion in coming weeks and then leaving it off the album. Opening with a jagged distorted guitar riff, the song announces a new template: The stalking, bluesy beat fits nicely with Martin's earthy vocals and plaintive lyrics: "If you love me, won't you let me know?"

"42": The fact that the band is considering this song as the album's first real single underlines how far they're willing to a stray from their formula: It's an elaborate three-part piece, with swirling pianos, strings and beat loops that build to an uptempo climax, with some seriously stoner lyrics: "Those who are dead are not dead/They're just living in my head."

"Yes": Here, Martin's vocals take center stage like never before: Sounding more aggressive and strong than ever, they sit on top of an irresistible North African string-and-tablas arrangement and ache more convincingly than all the lilting falsetto in the world: "If you'd only, if you'd only say 'Yes'/I'm just so tired of this loneliness." It's the band's freshest song since "Parachutes."

"Death and All His Friends": A straight-up rock tune with a riff that sounds ripped from the Doobie Brothers, piano, and, in the last section, flute."Cemetaries of London": Notice the thematic pattern emerging from the title and lyrics? This one, with an electro loop and hand claps, doesn't sound as glum as its title portends.

"Life in Technicolor": Acoustic-guitar driven and jangly, this is one of the few tracks that seems built from the Coldplay template of songs like "Don?t Panic," only a bit more, well, panicked: "Baby it's a violent world," Martin sings.

"Chinese Sleep Chant": Opening with a jagged guitar riff, the song quickly settles into a propulsive dance-track loop with low-mixed, angelic vocals.

"Strawberry Swing": This is one of several potential album cuts with Afro-pop and high-life influences: Here, distortion-free finger-picked guitars which sound straight out of Mali mix with a heavy bassline and psychedelic synths. "My Mum comes from Zimbabwe, so I spent a lot of time there," says Martin. "I used to work in a studio where people played that."

"Reign of Love": A lovely layered composition of piano, bass and organ that backs fairytale lyrics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.191.132.18 (talk) 16:43, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Wait and see
Based on the information we have so far, the title issue is not going to be resolved for awhile, and people keep reverting the title back and forth. Apparently we have enough consensus for the title to generally stay "Viva la Vida or Death and All His Friends" so I say we leave it like that until things become more clear. Possibly wait for the album cover? 71.11.215.216 (talk) 02:57, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

The official album cover has been added to the page. This is exactly as it appears on the official site, Coldplay.com. There is no "Death and All His Friends" on the cover. As I said before, I think this will be similar to Radiohead's Hail to the Thief, which has a subtitle, "The Gloaming". Still I think it would be best to leave the title as is, because someone will inevitably change it...but the ambiguity should definitely be referenced at the beginning of the article as neither title is confirmed.(Mj92 (talk) 05:39, 28 April 2008 (UTC))


 * But in their newsletter they call the album numerous times with the full title, eg "Artwork: 'Viva La Vida or Death And All His Friends'. I think it's best if we just wait and see..Hans (talk) 07:23, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, that's where I got the release dates from. I guess they don't want the "death and all his friends" part to be as strong and clear as "Viva la Vida".  Best thing, wait and see.  If it doesn't clear up once released, we could always just put an "also known as" or "commonly referred to as" clause in the introduction. (Mj92 (talk) 08:49, 28 April 2008 (UTC))


 * Just another snippet of information - the ID3 tag for the official download of Violet Hill lists the album title as "Viva La Vida or Death And All His Friends" — Matt Eason (Talk &#149; Contribs) 14:25, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

It's obvious...
As the article's first reference says, the complete title is Viva la Vida or Death and All His Friends, but they always refer to the album as Viva la Vida. In the text we should name it completely, but the title will should say only Viva la Vida. --Moraleh (talk) 08:08, 3 May 2008 (UTC) PS: Hey, and look at the artwork... it's obvious...
 * By your logic, X&Y would be nameless because there's no text on the album cover! Phs1234 (talk) 21:32, 31 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The name is on the front cover of x&y. It's in code.  n i m b u s a n i a  09:40, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Just the title is actually on the cover, like every Coldplay cover...please see Image:XYCoverBig.jpg to see the album cover.(Reddyb2 (talk) 03:26, 14 October 2008 (UTC))

Conclusion
All the signs point to the album being called "Viva La Vida".

The album cover for one, and the fact that there has been no mention of "...and Death and All His Friends" for ages by any music or news journalists or Coldplay themselves.

Can we agree, PLEASE, to keep the name as "Viva La Vida" until further notice, of which I personally doubt that there will be.

LOOK: OFFICIAL ALBUM COVER - "VIVA LA VIDA" - NO MORE >>>>


 * There's no text on X&Y at all, so I don't think we can judge simply from the visuals. Veracon.net (talk) 15:12, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Officially Mr X (talk) 20:33, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Why is this still an issue? Someone please explain to me how "Viva la Vida" being the shortened version of "Viva la Vida or Death and All His Friends" is somehow a serious contradiction where the only conclusion can be that the name is "Viva la Vida" and everything which has "or Death and All His Friends" on the end must be conveniently ignored, no matter what. -- I need a name (talk) 21:43, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Has the thought occured to anyone that it would say "Or death and all his friends" on the back? They wouldn't just come up with that tagline if it had no relevance... —Preceding comment was added at 21:55, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Try downloading violet hill off of their site - the album info says viva la vida or death and all his friends. 137.222.10.58 (talk) 22:48, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Hate to keep dragging this (relatively unimportant) debate on, but it seems to me that the official title is "Viva La Vida or Death And All His Friends." It is, however, commonly referred to as "Viva La Vida." And as for the album cover, hey, some album covers don't even include the title at all! I think "Viva La Vida" is just shorthand, just like everyone refers to "SpongeBob SquarePants" as "SpongeBob." I say let it be, and recommend adding a "commonly referred to as 'Viva La Vida'" clause in the intro.71.11.215.216 (talk) 01:10, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

The "Violet Hill" download is tagged "Viva La Vida or Death And All His Friends" - however little importance this has, I thought it might be relevant to mention. Veracon.net (talk) 16:59, 6 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey, in the EMI note, they (yes, EMI) refer to it just as Viva la Vida. I think we should title the page "Viva la Vida", and below say the longer title. --Moraleh (talk) 21:57, 6 May 2008 (UTC)


 * But EMI's latest press release uses the longer title not once but twice. I say leave it for now and wait for the album to go on sale. Chris 42 (talk) 23:25, 6 May 2008 (UTC)


 * For what it's worth, iTunes uses the long title.


 * And even Coldplay themselves name their album "Viva la vida or death and all its friends" on their site Coldplay.com, so also the complete title. Please check the message they left on their site, announcing the pre-order at iTunes. EMI and Coldplay both seem to agree on this, so this means the end of this discussion? 13:39, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually iTunes uses both titles. The ID3 tag for Violet Hill has the long one, when you view the album it shows the short one, and when you look at the top albums list it shows the long one! This is confusing! Maybe it's on purpose... 71.11.215.216 (talk) 22:34, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Though I agree that we should better wait for the record to hit the stores, I think this whole confusing name can be compared with for example Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, which is often simply called Sgt Pepper. Heck, there is even a redirect....... Just leave it for now...... 06:37, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

And yet again, coldplay themselves call it with it's full name. It's unquestionable. Their official site calls it with the full name, their official webshop calls it with the full name, ... Hans (talk) 09:13, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

secret song on website
From what I heard... Life in Technicolor could be secretly obtained from an .flv video off the website. Just a heads up. 66.105.218.215 (talk) 04:30, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Chinese Sleep Chant
Atlantik in the editing history raises a good point - can anybody provide a solid citation/source for "Yes" and "Chinese Sleep Chant" being part of the same track? I've seen it mentioned and discussed all over various forums but so far have not seen it officially confirmed? 220.235.162.221 (talk) 01:20, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah i can. look here THis is the official shop, and the tracklisting clearly lists Chinese Sleep Chant with Yes.

Excellent, thank you 58.7.195.64 (talk) 08:46, 17 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Lovers in Japan and Reign of Love are 2 different songs, but they're both in 1 track. Besides which, this mentions Chinese Sleep Chant as being a hidden track after Yes. -- I need a name (talk) 12:40, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Leak
As it is a reasonably large release of an album, details regarding the leak are notable IMO. Protiek (talk) 21:23, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Why put two tracks into one?
I've seen the tracklisting here and elsewhere and am wondering, is Coldplay meshing two distinct songs together (Lovers/Reign, Yes/Chinese, Death/Escapist) or do these flow into each other? Anyone know? Either way, I guess I don't understand the logic behind merging two tracks into one. Is this to screw with downloaders? Andrew (talk) 01:40, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Another point - the wording of that section ("*" Denotes that the track mixes into the next) is a bit misleading - I've not heard the album so can't comment - but would the word "segue" be more appropriate than "mix"? Booglamay (talk) 11:44, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * My take on this is since so many people will be probably copying the album for their friends, and since much less people actually listen to the original disc in a CD player, two tracks that flow into each other often will have a ridiculous itunes standard 2 second pause in between them. This would result in a bad flow and the two tracks being heard in relation to each other incorrectly.  Of course the whole album's flow is skewed by these sorts of things but this would be much more noticeable since there would be no fade at the end of the track that flows into the next. --PM - PhilyG talk 04:54, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Whose iTunes does that? I never have 2 second gaps, and songs always flow together when they should.Tredanse (talk) 04:34, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * None of the combined songs (Lovers/Reign, Yes/Chinese, Death/Escapist) actually flow into each other anyway, so the 2 second gap thing is not the reason why.58.7.131.27 (talk) 07:14, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * iTunes has the option to specify 'Part of a gapless album' on each track. Chris 42 (talk) 12:20, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Track Listings
Where there are two songs on one track (Lovers/Reign, Yes/Chinese, Death/Escapist) the time should be given for each individual song not a combined time for both - you can check the point at which the song changes on Coldplay's official Myspace where they have uploaded all the Viva La Vida songs:
 * 1) "Life in Technicolor" (Hopkins) - 2:29
 * 2) "Cemeteries of London" - 3:21
 * 3) "Lost!" - 3:55
 * 4) "42" - 3:57
 * 5) "Lovers in Japan" - 3:55 "Reign of Love" - 2:56
 * 6) "Yes" - 4:05 "Chinese Sleep Chant" - 3:01
 * 7) "Viva la Vida" - 4:04
 * 8) "Violet Hill" - 3:50
 * 9) "Strawberry Swing" - 4:08
 * 10) "Death and All His Friends" - 3:34 "The Escapist" (Hopkins, Martin) - 2:44 (hidden track) Officially Mr X (talk) 08:14, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

But this is a "track" list, not a "song" list, so the above is invalid, because the real track lengths aren't properly represented. No album article that I've seen with hidden/combined songs lists them like that on Wikipedia. I suggest the combined songs be listed as "Life Is for Living" is on Parachutes:


 * 1) "Everything's Not Lost" – 7:15
 * 2) *"Life Is for Living" – 1:36 [hidden song starting at 5:39]

American Idiot is also another example where the hidden/combined tracks are seperated and listed, but the "main" track keeps its original track length. 220.235.158.226 (talk) 10:20, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

"Largely Produced by Eno"????
Is there any need for the sentence about Brian Eno to be structured this way?? The reference it links to states that Eno is Producing the album, not most of the tracks, but the whole album. This sentence leads me at least to the conclusion that not all the tracks on the album have Eno's involvement. My assumption is that whoever added the largely is referring to the fact that Coldplay will most likely also get Production credit for the album, but so do over half the bands that release albums nowadays, even though the Producer of the album is usually thought of as the person hired to Produce the album. Anyone against a removal of the largely? Thought I'd put it in the talk before making the change. --PM - PhilyG talk 04:45, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Viva la vida translation
I really don't get why the translation is Long live life, 'cause it could indicate an affirmative order in spanish, something like (usted) live the life, or the subjuntive form; what is totally different. 189.31.125.96 (talk) 05:03, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * True, but "viva la vida" translated to "long live life" is not really wrong. For instance, "viva el rey" = "long live the king." I think this is a context issue, however I'm no expert in Spanish grammar. Phs1234 (talk) 03:27, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

The same as in the Viva la Vida (song), I'm a native spanish speaker from Mexico, and the most natural translation into English for the phrase 'Viva la vida' is 'Long live the Life'. 'Viva la vida' in the context of the Kahlo painting, is a celebration for life, very similar to 'long live the king'. Finally, if you translate the phrase to 'you live the life!' (which is grammatically correct) it's kind of weird, because usually you don't order someone to live his life. gilb_4 03:48, 26 June 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gilb 4 (talk • contribs)

If it was meant to say (you live the life!) it would be "vive", not "viva". It's only meaning can be Long Live Life —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.136.70.20 (talk) 01:10, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

I am afraid but I disagree, since in the mexican variant of spasnish, we have two second persons personal pronouns, 'tu' y 'usted', you can translate 'you live the life' as 'tu vive la vida' (informally) or 'usted viva la vida' (formally). Greetings. gilb_4 03:46, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm a linguist, a native Spanish speaker and a native English speaker. The phrase "Viva la vida!" (cf. "Viva España!", "Viva el rey!" and "Vive la France!") can only mean "Long live life!" (just as the others mean "Long life Spain!", "Long live the king!" and "Long live France!"). It does not mean "Alive is the life!" and it is not an instruction to "Live the life!". It is, however, a euphoric and victorious battle cry. Please stop changing the translation to inferior and crude representations. I have checked with three other native Spanish and English people (one of whom is a professional translator and another is a university professor) and they all agree that the correct translation of "Viva la [...]." is "Long live [...]!".

Further proof can be seen here: and here:

Ben Merritt (talk) 21:16, 11 July 2008 (UTC) Those are just blogs. Try citing something useful. I am a native spanish speaker and a native english speaker myself. If you really wasted a college profs. time with such a silly question, then shame on you. The literal translation is live the life. Go into any online translator [not some random blog] and type it in for yourself. I'm surprised you clain to speak spanish. You are spreading so much disinforamtion left and right you wouldn't even stop to consider that official translation and meaning are two different aspects. My whole family whom were born and raised in mexico also say that it means Live the life. Viva-Live La-The Vida-Life. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.89.121.199 (talk • contribs)

The fact that you believe an online translator says it all, really. For instance, Carla Bruni's new album is called Comme si de rien n'était, which cannot be translated literally. It means As if it never happened. But put it into Babelfish and you get Like so of nothing n'was. You see, computers can't translate sense, they can only translate literally. And for something as complex as language, this won't do. I am a teacher in a Languages College - I've just checked with the Head of Spanish, who is Spanish, and he also says the best translation is "Long live life!". —Preceding unsigned comment added by IndieSinger (talk • contribs) 07:25, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

By saying that you think the translation is "Live the life!", you are saying that "Viva el rey!" would be "Live the king!" and "Viva España!" would be "Live Spain!".

IndieSinger (talk) 07:27, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes. Those phrases mean exactly that. The only reason the words are changed in english is so that it will make sense. If you were a good language teacher, or even a teacher at all and not just some pathetic indie kid, you'd know that languages vary in dialect. That should be a no brainer for you, but it is taking a while for your brain to comprehend. The literal translation is "Live the life.". It is not "Alive is the king!", which is also wrong by the way, or "Long Live Life".

You'll noticed I've stopped correcting the information on the Wikipedia page. Although I'd prefer it to be accurate, I'd rather not get into this petty argument. "The only reason the words are changed in english [sic] is so that it will make sense." Yeah! So let's give the version that makes sense, rather than the one that doesn't? The fact that you think I'm not a teacher annoys me. What else do you want, my QTS certificate? My PGCE certificate? My NQT certificate? I'd invite you to come and watch my classes, but I doubt you pass the CRB check. Ben Merritt (talk) 10:29, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Ok, let's settle this for good, If you read this article Vive, Viva you may notice that the usual translation for Viva ... is Long live ... not Live ... Finally if we take translations literally we are in risk to translate things like 'screw you' to 'atornillate' lol lol lol. And if you don't have a good idea of the expressions and idioms in both languages, you are prone to do things like this: All your base are belong to us (Sorry if the example is too geek). Greets from Mexico. gilb_4 19:51, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Now look here. There is no way you can translate "viva la vida" as "live the life". Languages don't work like that, you can't just exchange one word for another and expect the sentence to have the right meaning. Viva is not a command in that sentence, but a subjuntive with the approximate meaning “may it live”. “la vida” is NOT “the life” but just “life”. We do not use the definite article (the, la) in English in the same way we do in Spanish. See, for example, “la felicidad” (happiness), “la muerte” (death), NOT *the happiness, not *the death. The sentence literally means “may life live”, or as we say in English using a bit of an idiomatic expression “long live life”. In the same way that we say “long live the king”, “viva el rey”. In Spanish we could equally render this as “que viva el rey”, it has about the same meaning. It isn’t a command here, but the remnant of a usage of the subjunctive that is no longer common without the “que” beforehand.

IF we translate the sentence as “live the life”, then it has a different meaning in English. Why?, because we use the definite article (the) in a special way in English to talk about the best or the most appropriate version of something. Thus, “this is THE place to watch football” which sort of means “this is the BEST place to watch football”. We also have the expression “This is the life!”, implying something along the lines of “this is the best life possible” or “this is the life I wanted”. You CANNOT use the definite article in quite the same way in Spanish. Even if it were a command, and it would mean “live life”, why on earth should it be a formal command (viva) and not an informal command (vive)? I repeat, “live the life” in English implies to me that you want someone to live a certain sort of life that is considered attractive, for whatever reason, eg. the life of the rock star, or whatever. That is not what the Spanish sentence implies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.201.56.116 (talk) 22:28, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Congratulations people on perhaps the biggest, most useless argument I've ever seen on wikipedia. It's a good thing the translation has now been removed from the article, because in the end, it's a trivial footnote at best and 99% irrelevant to the article in question, as is the endless bickering above. 220.235.160.184 (talk) 11:08, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

LIJ/ROL
Please explain why the title of track 5 should have two sets of quote marks. As far as I'm concerned, this is wrong. Other combined songs on wiki are not titled like this {e.g. "Head Over Heels/Broken (Live)" on Songs from the Big Chair). There is technically only one title for the track ("Lovers in Japan/Reign of Love"), regardless of there being two songs in one track (just like there is only one track length for it despite two seperate songs). The title is also listed as "Lovers in Japan/Reign of Love" on the album sleeve and on the CDDB. 58.7.131.27 (talk) 00:25, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree. This is similar to "Morning Bell/Amnesiac". The former is a stand-alone song on Kid A, but it's a combined track on Amnesiac, and it's necessary to put the quotation marks around the entire track - not the individual songs within the track. --Madchester (talk) 13:42, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It should be "Lovers in Japan"/"Reign of Love", as it's 2 songs called "Lovers in Japan" and "Reign of Love", not 1 song called "Lovers in Japan/Reign of Love". And neither the album nor CDDB use quotation marks anywhere. -- I need a name (talk) 01:14, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * But this is a track listing, not a song listing. This is only one track, so only one title should be used, as used on the other examples provided above. The two-song-in-one-track deal is clarified by the bullet points below it, like the other combined (albeit hidden) songs. 58.7.113.200 (talk) 05:28, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Regarding plagiarism controversy section
This looks to be a noteworthy thing to have included in the article, except parts of it are a direct copy from the source, an Independent article. I don't suppose this is allowed, so I will put the section in comment tags, leaving it there for people to edit as necessary. The Baroness of Morden (talk) 10:17, 20 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think hiding the section is the correct course of action, I have fixed it as much as possible, keeping the quote intact. please feel free to fix it further if you see fit, without hiding it from the general public. Bakkouz (talk) 17:37, 20 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Presumably if it's just been lifted from another wesbite, word for word, that is not a good thing to have. That's why I put it in the comment tags. Of course, if it is fine to copy and paste from sources, do correct me. The Baroness of Morden (talk) 21:51, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I think this should actually be moved to the individual song article. --Madchester (talk) 18:56, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Update: Creaky Boards now claims admits the allegations may be unfounded Telegraph article --Madchester (talk) 21:53, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Album Art
The background comes from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Eug%C3%A8ne_Delacroix_-_La_libert%C3%A9_guidant_le_peuple.jpg ? --Fpmfpm (talk) 17:54, 20 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, it does - it's mentioned in the second paragraph of the lead — Matt Eason (Talk &#149; Contribs) 16:17, 21 June 2008 (UTC)


 * lolz — 58.7.113.200 (talk) 12:09, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

wtf, is it just me or does the guy on the lower right look exactly like chris martin! I checked and they didnt photoshop it its the original!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.83.121.172 (talk) 16:38, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

I keep adding a reference ot the album cover, its use of a famous painting and its meaning. And it keeps getting deleted by someone apparently working for a record company or something. If the article is going to reference the album cover art -- isn't it fair game to include a reference to the origins and meaning of that work of art:

I have proposed the following:

"The album's artwork features the painting Liberty Leading the People (La Liberté guidant le peuple) by French painter Eugène Delacroix, commemorating the July Revolution of 1830, which is considered a commentary on the need for sacrifice and even bloodshed for the furtherance of liberty."

The album's artwork features the painting Liberty Leading the People (La Liberté guidant le peuple) by French painter Eugène Delacroix, commemorating the July Revolution of 1830, which is considered a commentary on the need for sacrifice and even bloodshed for the furtherance of liberty. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dcahillusa (talk • contribs) 17:39, 2 July 2008 (UTC) Dcahillusa (talk) 17:42, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I've removed your edit per WP:SYN. While it is properly sourced, this article is about VLVODAAHF, not Liberty Leading the People.  Unless, Coldplay makes similar statements like "the painting is a commentary for the need for sacrifice and even bloodshed... and we felt it was appropriate for the French Revolution theme of the album." that edit is currently a synthesis of published ideas, improperly implying that Coldplay felt the same way when choosing the album artwork. --Madchester (talk) 18:33, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Lost!
I've redirected the Lost! article to this page for the time being. While it has received radio airplay, some editors are speculating that it will be the next single without any reliable sources. This goes completely goes against WP:CRYSTAL. For example, I've read messageboard speculation that a video for LIJ has been filmed; but since it's only speculation, it can't be added. Feel free to create/re-create the appropriate singles articles when sufficient sources are available. --Madchester (talk) 15:33, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

NZ Release Date
The in-store promotional poster that EMI sent me states that Viva La Vida is released on the 16th of June in New Zealand so that should be changed. Also, the LP was released here, I am looking at it right now. **Mr.Bombo** (talk) 07:55, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Minor Item - Artwork Reference
I keep adding a reference ot the album cover, its use of a famous painting and its meaning. And it keeps getting deleted by someone apparently working for a record company or something. If the article is going to reference the album cover art -- isn't it fair game to include a reference to the origins and meaning of that work of art:

I have proposed the following:

"The album's artwork features the painting Liberty Leading the People (La Liberté guidant le peuple) by French painter Eugène Delacroix, commemorating the July Revolution of 1830, which is considered a commentary on the need for sacrifice and even bloodshed for the furtherance of liberty."

The album's artwork features the painting Liberty Leading the People (La Liberté guidant le peuple) by French painter Eugène Delacroix, commemorating the July Revolution of 1830, which is considered a commentary on the need for sacrifice and even bloodshed for the furtherance of liberty. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dcahillusa (talk • contribs) 17:39, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Genre
The tracks on the CD itself state that it's Pop, and not AlternRock? DeathShot39 (talk) 20:03, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Who the heck is saying that the album genre is Queercore?????????? (Ctrlaltdelete200390 (talk) 09:41, 21 January 2009 (UTC)) I Think The Album Is An Alternative Rock Recording, With Songs That Collabrate Two Or More Music Genres Easily. Chris Maeder (talk) 19:06, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

I Think The Album Is An Alternative Rock Recording, With Songs That Collabrate Two Or More Music Genres Easily. Chris Maeder (talk) 19:07, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

I Think The Album Is An Alternative Rock Recording, With Songs That Collabrate Two Or More Music Genres Easily. Sorry About The Acident. Chris Maeder (talk) 19:08, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

translation of viva la vida
i am a native spanish speaker and i have to tell you that the prase "viva la vida" is used mainly as a celebration of life and living. a close translation will be something like "hooray for life". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.154.122.197 (talk) 07:05, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Records sold in the UK
as of 8/04/08 Viva La Vida Or Death amd All HIs Friends has sold around 770,000 i got this imformation from musicweek.com so please stop changing the number to 668,000 that was as of 7/07/08  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lh92089 (talk • contribs) 21:49, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Then you need a new citation because the one that's used says: At that stage of its life, X&Y had sold 907,240 copies, while Viva La Vida has sold 668,114 copies.. I'll remove the reference and add a citation needed tag. PS please sign your posts with ~ . --JD554 (talk) 08:18, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

redirect change
The redirect for Viva la Vida (song) needs to be changed. By typing in Viva la Vida you actually get the album not the single. I would be grateful if it could be changed. I did try changing it but I kept getting the format wrong. Matt G (talk) 19:38, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Done --JD554 (talk) 19:44, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

popularity/commercial rankings
...or whatever those "number one in the US" and such throughout the article are. What rankings are we talking about? Many of the charts are documented in this encyclopedia, this article needs to be more specific, or else the claims can't be trusted and should be challenged, and possibly removed. The only reference i found is the short MusicWeek one, where i read "Viva La Vida has topped the charts", but it too fails to specify which; and "EMI adds that in many countries Viva La Vida beat X&Y’s first-week sales and has already been certified gold or platinum in 31 countries, including double platinum in the UK and Canada." "Platinum record" redirects to Music recording sales certification, where i learn that "gold", platinum" and such are RIAA certification. So, if this is the case, then do say so, and do link to the relevant WP pages. In addition, the ref should come from the RIAA itself, not just some random columnist who fails to cite his sources. I suppose that EMI is an acceptable source in this case, so go get it from them, wherever they published it. The same goes for the "Viva La Vida set the record for the highest first-week album sales on the iTunes Store worldwide, as well as being the biggest album pre-order in iTunes’ history" in the MusicWeek article. Sorry for not being more concise. --Jerome Potts (talk) 08:37, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Album cover art
The cover art for the album is taken from the painting Liberty Leading the People, which is in public domain. Since the cover art consists entirely of this painting, and text (which cannot be copyrighted), the album cover itself is in public domain. If you have a dispute about the image's copyright status, then make a post on Commons, but please don't remove the image from the article because it is entirely appropriate. – Dream out loud (talk) 18:19, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure those white splashes of paint (not the text) are neither part of the painting or part of the text itself. Therefore it isn't a "faithful reproduction". --JD554 (talk) 07:42, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Promo LP?
I've heard nothing about this, and it seems to have just appeared on the page, sourceless. This should probably be removed until there is more official confirmation... -Ally (talk) 17:19, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was no consensus to support move. JPG-GR (talk) 20:13, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Viva la Vida or Death and All His Friends → Viva la Vida — The album is almost exclusively refered to as "Viva la Vida". The Band's site refers to it as such, as does mtv, spin.com, amazon, and allmusic.com. In addition, iTunes uses Viva la Vida on its website. As part of this move, the song (currently at Viva la Vida) would move to Viva la Vida (song).

-Parler Vous (edits) 15:52, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Survey

 * Easy oppose. Looking at the '09 Grammy nominations, VLV is nominated for Record of the Year; VLVODAAHF is nominated for Album of the Year. The longer name is exclusively used to distinguish the album from the single, though both may use the shorter one interchangeably.


 * N.B.,  You're selectively skewing the band and media's preference for the album title, because coldplay.com, mtv.com, amazon (UK), spin.com still use the longer title.  Again, both long and short forms are used interchangeably, but the former is a specific reference to the album. --Madchester (talk) 17:03, 3 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Strong Oppose, per what Madchester noted above. Also, the band released the album as Viva la Vida or Death and All His Friends, but credit "Viva la Vida" as the main song of the album. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 18:59, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Discussion

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

"Strawberry Swing"?
Mention of "Strawberry Swing" as the album's fifth single this summer seems to be consistently re-added and removed from the article. Is there any verifiable source out there to back that up? I mean, I've heard nothing of the sort, personally, and such a release would be awfully late in the game&mdash;I mean, "Lovers in Japan" was the last single, and that was released half a year ago now, and there's since been the release of "Life in Technicolor ii" from the EP, so why wouldn't they just continue to release singles from that CD, y'know? &mdash; Cinemaniac ( talk  •   contribs ) 04:11, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * This interview with Chris Martin mentions that they've been working on a video for Strawberry Swing, but then goes on to say "I don't know whether it counts as a single or not". -- I need a name (talk) 11:00, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks! An interesting interview and a good read, BTW, I need a name. :)   God, it's so hard to understand what Chris Martin is getting at half the time &mdash; sometimes, he can actually be the least helpful in trying to figure out what's next for Coldplay's future. :)  So, what do you suggest we do?  Say that "Strawberry Swing" hasn't seen any physical release yet as single, but still mention that a music video for it is in the works?
 * I mean, even if "Strawberry Swing" is never officially made a single, if there's a music video for it and the song's done well digitally, then that should warrant some mention of it, right? Maybe even it's own article?   I've seen similar things down here for those kind of circumstances:  For example,  Kanye West's "Welcome to Heartbreak" and "See You in My Nightmares" were both expected to be released as singles, and even had videos filmed for them, before he retracted them.  Couldn't a similar approach be used here? &mdash; Cinemaniac ( talk   •   contribs ) 16:49, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The aforementioned video of "Strawberry Swing" will premiere on the internet on July 20, according to Coldplay's YouTube account. &mdash; Cinemaniac ( talk  •   contribs ) 20:19, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Should there be a separate page to describe Strawberry Swing as a single? Tahna Los (talk) 12:01, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Incorporation of work by Jon Hopkins
Shouldn't there be a mention of the use of Jon Hopkins' electronic piece "Light Through the Veins" on the album? Here is a useful quote from his MySpace page:

Coldplay were so taken with Light Through the Veins - the first single from Hopkins’ new album Insides - that they used a reworked version to bookend last year's bestselling Viva La Vida and persuaded the 28-year-old Londoner to spend the last six months of 2008 opening their live shows across the USA, Europe and Japan. 66.80.65.244 (talk) 00:25, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Digital sales first week
Sorry if this is unimportant, but shouldn't there be a mention of the fact that this album sold the most digital copies in one week out of any album in the US? I don't currently have a source but there are plenty of them out there. However, this might not be relevant information as of next week, judging by the performance of Lady Gaga's Born This Way. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.28.105.66 (talk) 14:52, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Spanish translation of title
Is "viva la vida" a figure of speech in Spanish? I believe the literal translation of "Viva la Vida" is "live the life." I don't know where "long live life" comes from.--Jp07 (talk) 00:05, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

There are two translations to "viva la vida", one is "live the life" or "live (your) life" and the other ir "hail life" or "hail to life". I think the "long live" comes from the phrase "all hail the king" or "long live the king", which in spanish would be "viva el rey". This "back and forth" between english and spanish is not very linear. Tanketai (talk) 14:39, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Removed text about packaging
There was a passage in the graphic design section describing the type of packaging used for the CD release, and noting it as unusual. This pocketed cardboard CD packaging is fairly common and pre-dates this album, didn't seem like a necessary inclusion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.174.108.201 (talk) 21:10, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Mexican certifications
I removed the double diamond certification in Mexico, because the source included in the article says the album was certified gold only. Anyway, there is another source, this one, according to which Viva la Vida or Death and All His Friends received the certification double diamond + quadruple platinum, but it says that this certification was given for the category "full album preloaded", while the album, according to the same source, was certified gold only. I don't know what this certification is, but looking at the album's chart run in the Mexican albums chart, it's clear that the album did not sell in excess of 1,000,000 copies there, so I guess it should not be included (or, if included, an explanation of what it means is needed). --Stee888 (talk) 15:48, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Requested move 2

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. Consensus to retain current title as WP:NATURAL disambiguation. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:46, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Viva la Vida or Death and All His Friends → Viva la Vida (album) – Per WP:COMMONNAME, WP:CONCISE, and WP:SUBTITLE. While there are sources that use the artsy official name, others prefer the short name. Since it would be supported by our naming conventions, I suggest we use the short name as well. BDD (talk) 20:02, 19 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Oppose, eventually the "'Viva la Vida (album)' is ambiguous" comments will appear. "Or Death and All His Friends" is not a subtitle. I pressed CTRL+F and ODAAHF is used over 40 times in the titles of the references alone. Both are common, but if you WP:NATURALLY disambiguate, it is better. ©   Tb hotch ™ (en-2.5). 01:09, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Suggesting that the phrase isn't a subtitle simply because it lacks the comma that usually sets an "or" subtitle off seems highly pedantic. --BDD (talk) 20:15, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
 * "Subtitle: A heading below or after a title." Just becuase the album is sometimes simply referred to as by "Viva la Vida" won't make "Or Death and All His Friends" a subtitle, it's simply that is easier to say "VLV" than "VLVODAAHF". Pedantic, maybe, but it is my opinion, didn't you said time ago, all opinions are taken in consideration? Anyway you have to prove that "ODAAHF" is a subtitle with reliable references. ©   Tb hotch ™ (en-2.5). 06:43, 24 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Support in principle but maybe Viva la Vida (Coldplay album) would be better. (This is Coldplay, right? Okay.) Red Slash 02:10, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Oppose the full version is the correct title; that a long title is sometimes abbreviated informally isn't a reason to abbreviate it here. Peter&#160;James (talk) 18:16, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Tbhotch. Given that the shortened name is ambiguous with other albums, and given also that sources are inconsistent in usage, the full name is a preferable title. Xoloz (talk) 18:50, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Lyric meanings
When you consider the date when these songs were written, surely the lyrics to this song only have one aim - to attack the instigators of the banking crisis. Every line could be evidence for this but perhaps this stanza is the most convincing. "I used to roll the dice, Feel the fear in my enemy's eyes. Listen as the crowd would sing "Now the old king is dead! Long live the king!" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.77.70.154 (talk) 18:24, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 16:04, 1 May 2016 (UTC)