Talk:Vkhutemas/Archive 1

Just to be sure
Hello, this message is for NVO or at least related to NVO's recent additions—they are much appreciated by the way. I'm uncertain about two points, which stem from my not having access to Kahn-Magomedov books to verify. One is about the Vesnins, and will effect this sentence from the Ladovsky workshop section: "In 1925-1930 Ladovsky's department at Vkhutemas-Vkhutein and Alexander Vesnin's school at MVTU were engaged in a vocal professional competition of students' projects, which further separated the rationalist and constructivist arms of avant-garde architecture. [19]" What I've found is that Alexander and Leonid were at Vkhutemas and Viktor was at MVTU. This is according to Catherine Cooke, Russian Avant-Garde: Theories of Art, Architecture, and the City, Academy Editions, 1995—which is the best source I've found for this period in English. It contains quite a few translated primary source documents and discusses this period in depth. Maybe it is possible that Alexander Vesnin taught at both, but this should be clarified. NVO, can you double check in Kahn-Magomedov? The other point that I hope you can double check is Ladovsky's 'classical' method, "His training program was superficially similar to classical training: first, study a particular architectural element of the past; then, use it in abstract drafts; finally, apply it to real-world architectural tasks..." I'm not finding mention of this in multiple sources, and it paints him as much more conservative than I had previously understood. Above there is "Architectural training at Vkhutemas was divided in two camps" and this classicism makes that point seem less true and the "camps" less "divided". It is possible, but he seems to me to be the most abstract of the three: Ladovsky, Zholotovsky, and Melnikov, and it shows less of a division as mentioned. Maybe this was meant to be attributed to Melnikov? who according to Cooke was a middle ground between teaching abstractions and classicism. I've found more info to add on Melnikov's studio by the way and can add that in the next few days.D. Recorder 18:38, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 1. That was my first imression of Ladovsky, too: a conservative man in the middle of avantguard chaos... take a look at photographs of Ladovsky and, say, Melnikov... what would you say? They're always buttoned-down and well-groomed, over decades, Melnikov wears black, Ladovsky wears soft tweed (and it wasn't his only suit :)). Conservative appearance, unorthodox teaching. I would not equate his assignments to classicism. His assignments were, to put it politely, fantastic (I mean the shoreside restaurant project - something that would not be built, ever).
 * 2. You are right on Vesnin's. First class of Victor Vesnin graduated MVTU in 1925. First class of Alexander Vesnin graduated VKHUTEMAS next year, 1926. Then Khan-Magomedov makes a statement that by 1925 Alexander Vesnin became a center of constructivist group, with Victor Vesnin and Moisei Ginzburg as most notable members. This group incorporated itself as OSA in end of 1925. Later, Khan=Magomedov states that Leonid Vesnin was at MVTU with Victor and Alexander Kuznetsov, but does not state years of his tenure. The situation was so volatile, without exact dates it's a mess (could Alexander be teaching at both schools? simultaneously or not? one seminar a month or something more involving? really, it means recreating his bio day by day, something even Magomedov didn't do). NVO 19:25, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Indeed, that helps me understand much better, thank you. I have some text to add in the next few days, after reading Cooke. I still wish I had access to K-M's books—I'm going to use the library at my old university next week, which has a few of them. Perhaps we can make this article a Featured article. Regards, D. Recorder 20:01, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

More Images
VKhutemas was an art institute bursting with creativity. I think we need more illustrations. Maybe a gallery with at least one image per professor or orther notable personality? Alex Bakharev 14:01, 14 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Sounds good to me! dv dv   dv d  21:00, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup needed
The References and footnotes are missing language icons on the non-English sources, and several of them don't conform to WP:CITE/ES (all sources should have a publisher, websources should have last accessdate, and author and publication date should be listed when available). Hopefully these items can be cleaned up before this article appears on the mainpage; normally, I'd fix these sorts of issues myself, but I can't read the non-English sources. Also, some of the section headings need review of capitalization per WP:MSH; are all of those caps to proper nouns? Sandy Georgia (Talk) 15:56, 14 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Done, thanks! dv dv   dv d  21:00, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Location
''Main site was at 21, Myasnitskaya Street (Yushkov House, 55°45'51"N 37°38'9"E - it's a whole bunch of listed historical houses). Architectural classes - in present-day Architectural Institute (11, Rozhdestvenka)''

—User:NVO from User talk:NVO  dv dv   dv d  21:00, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Fate of Students and Faculty
I wonder how many Stalin had shot and/or imprisoned in the Gulag. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eye.earth (talk • contribs) 22:30, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Gustav Klutsis and Alexei Gan, among teachers; among students I'd expect there were many more. Owenhatherley (talk) 22:39, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Losses among writers and painters were quite high. Far less so among architects most of them belonged to pre-revolutionary generation. The profession was generally immune. The targeted groups were: Bauhaus expatriates (Bela Schefler), Soviet ethnic Germans (Traugott Bardt) and Poles, former Baltic states citizens (not aware if any VKhuTEMAS graduates fell into these groups). As for the architectural VKhuTEMAS and successor ASI and MARKHI students, all I can find   (the list is obviously incomplete):
 * Casimir Visnevsky (1895-1959) - MARKHI class of 1936. Worked on the Agricultural Exposition under Vladislav Oltarzhevsky and went down with him. Unlike Oltarzhevsky, lived the rest of his life in the North.
 * Ivan Kalinovsky (1904-1988) - VKHUTEMAS class of 1927. Arrested in 1935 for correspondence with Corbusier. Settled in Krasnoyarsk in 1954 and was active there as city architect.
 * Gevorg Kochar (1901-1973) - VKHUTEMAS class of 1926, VKHUTEIN of 1929. Arrested in 1937. Architect of Norilsk in 1940s, of Krasnoyarsk in 1950s, then back in Armenia.
 * Nikolai Laptev (1907-1973) - VKHUTEMAS-ASI-MARKHI class of 1934. Taken POW in 1941, taken back from Germans in 1945, arrested in 1946, released 1955.
 * Mikael Mazlanyan (1899-1971) - VKHUTEIN class of 1929. Same case as Kochar.
 * Victor Pestov-Goroshkov (1909-1979) - ASI-MARKHI class of 1935. Arrested in July 1941, served in Norilsk 1941-1949. Unlike all above, it was 'ordinary' work labor.
 * Aleksey Rahletsky (1893-1937) - VKHUTEMAS class of 1921. First arrest 1924, exile to Krasnoyarsk, second arrest and execution in 1937. NVO (talk) 21:32, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Fantastic
This is a great article. I love this art style. Burpelson AFB (talk) 00:49, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

External links dead?
All three external links appear to be dead: would this not have been on the checklist for a "front-page" FA? Only in transit for a few minutes at present so cannot check further, apologies! Regards, David. Harami2000 (talk) 14:37, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
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