Talk:Vladimir Arutyunian

Confusing
Very confusing: The article mentions he was jailed for the attempted assassination and for killing an officer. There is no other mention of killing an officer. Can someone fix this? 58.172.83.144 (talk) 23:15, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

There is nothing in this article about any possible motives for his actions. Does anyone know anything about this? Academic Challenger 23:26, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Exactly what I was thinking. I just found out about this assassination attempt but every article I've read completely ignores why the attempt was made. That's some very important missing information. 142.161.78.154 23:59, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

I mean no offense, but I think killing the president is motivation enough. Like what is one of the motivation for writing a best selling novel? Fame of course! So killing the president is sort of motivation enough. And also he thought he could do it. JayKeaton 05:51, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

How sad that some people accept a presidential assasination plot as being such an insignificant thing that doesn't deserve more investigation. "Fame"?? The plot was most likely caused by regional separatist/autonomist movements and dislike of the policies of Shakashvili (which is strongly supported by Bush). Ofcourse for an American "fame" is an argument that will suffice.85.186.159.54 (talk) 14:46, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Fame is a more likely motive than your suggestion. Why would an ethnic Armenian from Tbilisi care about the ethnic separatist movements elsewhere in Georgia? 86.0.203.229 (talk) 10:35, 14 March 2008 (UTC)


 * This discussion is kinda pointless, unless some guy writes a book studying Arutyunian's motives. Any conclusion made here that is placed in the article would violate the Original Research policy, which tells us that unless something like this is sourced, it can't be put up. Just to point that out. On a seperate note, though, to kill the President was the response, not the motive. Just wanted to point that out too.

This missing key information, unfortunately, cannot be placed here until some guy decides to write a book or magazine article or something about it.

--Starstriker7(Say hior see my works) 05:18, 12 August 2008 (UTC)


 * According to http://www.assassinology.org/id2.html "Vladimir, a native Armenian, had lost his father and older brother in Armenia’s conflict with Azerbaijan in 1991. They were both executed by firing squad for participating in terrorist activities when Vladimir was eleven. In fear of their lives, his mother, Angela, gave up her teaching job and travelled with her son to Georgia where they arrived as refugees. Vladimir wanted to assassinate Bush for a number of reasons but in particular because the US President was trying to forge an alliance with Azerbaijan, the country responsible for his father’s and brother’s execution." Admittedly, I presume this is speculation, but it's all I've been able to find. 203.45.95.236 (talk) 14:09, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Er,where did this happen?? Elucidation needed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:CF99:2080:58B:ED30:3D6A:8D85 (talk) 00:16, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

Useless "info"
"Arutyunian stood for hours in the hot sun wearing a heavy leather coat and muttering and cursing to himself as he waited for United States President George W. Bush and Georgia President Mikheil Saakashvili to speak."

Is this some kind of novel or what? Why the atmoshphere building with non-factual nonsense?

Name spelling / Article spelling
I propose both articles be merged into a Vladimir Arutyunian page - which is the spelling the FBI uses, and as an Armenian I think better reflects the transliteration of the name than Arutinian. --RaffiKojian 02:57, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Hello,

I think his fundamental motivation was unmistakably the FBI (who everybody is familiar with by means of comprehension).

-Wanderer (anonymous)

Trial
I changed the Trial portion where he was reported to have sewn his own lips shut after requesting to meet with a human rights organization. Sewing lips together is a torture tactic perpetrated on others in Georgia. Here is another case from 2005: "Hajar Husseinov's former attorney, during his last visit to him in prison, Hajar's mouth was sewed shut and Tediashvili could not talk with him" From here: http://www.humanrights.ge/files/HR-REPORT-2006.pdf

And what is a prisoner doing with a needle and thread in prison? Georgia's prisons are reported by HR organizations to be dungeons. &#39;Merikan (talk) 08:41, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Why an animated gif?
Why does this article feature an animated gif of Bush speaking at the podium? It doesn't appear to be the moment of the actual attempt, so surely a still would be more appropriate? 87.244.95.216 (talk) 20:24, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Motivation
At this point there's zero indication of any political orientation, mental problem, or other motivation for the actions. Lycurgus (talk) 07:03, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Mouth sewn shut
Was his mouth actually sutured shut, and was it self-harm or done by the jailers?

108.8.3.190 (talk) 04:25, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Armenian ethnicity
Kober, how is his ethnicity relevant to the lead? I suggest you to avoid making unnecessary and baseless statements such as "If he were a famous writer or artist, his ethnic background would have been emphasized in each and every sentence." Yes, if some world-known person is of Armenian background and that is relevant to his career, then it should be mentioned in the lead. See Charles Aznavour for example. He calls himself 100% French, 100% Armenian and is also the Armenian ambassador in Switzerland. But why would we mention Cher's Armenian ancestry in the lead? It is as much irrelevant as this guy's ethnicity. What about Zurab Zhvania? Why don't we mention his ethnic origin in the lead too? -- Ե րևանցի talk  16:13, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The issue in question not a big deal to me, but I don't really understand why you and other Armenian users feel offended by the fact that he is Armenian. Criminals can be born of any nation or ethnic group. Even though his ethnic background is not directly relevant to the reason of his notability, Arutyunian's Armenian origin and identity is a fact. Why to suppress it? Anyway, you can eliminate it from the article if you deem it so important. I started this article and it's still on my watchlist, but I don't particularly care about it. Also, I don't quite understand what Zhvania has to do with all of these. To the best of my knowledge he was 1/4 Armenian through his (maternal) grandfather. A person's full genealogy does not definitely belong to the lead.--KoberTalk 19:52, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
 * "Feeling offended" from what? Do I sound like a 5 year old who thinks Armenians are saints? That's perhaps your assumption. If he was a Georgian of Azeri/Abkhaz/Osset/Russian or whatever ethnicity I would not want to see his ethnic origin in the lead either, because that is simply not relevant. You already answered your question "his ethnic background is not directly relevant to the reason of his notability." If one is interested in his ethnic origin, they can simply look at the infobox. -- Ե րևանցի talk  20:15, 29 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Noone is affected by the fact he is Armenian, but I am, honestly speaking, confused with your wish to mention his ethnicity in the first sentence, especially given, that his ethnicity did not play any role in his deeds. Хаченци (talk) 23:53, 29 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Хаченци, I said I did not care. I just mentioned the fact on the ground without any subtext or special agenda. Your emotional responses make me think that's something really of importance for you. Do whatever you want with this article. It's out of my scope of interests.--KoberTalk 03:55, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
 * This doesn't look as if you don't care. Хаченци (talk) 04:17, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Infobox confusion
(1978-03-12) 12 March 1978 (age 38)

This format confused the hell out of me for about 5 minutes. Perhaps consider doing this as such:

'''12 March 1978 (1978-03-12; age 38)

I seriously had to re-read the box about 6-7 times to understand what it was trying to say.47.196.102.77 (talk) 06:32, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Rename
Should this article be renamed to something like 2005 Attempted Assassination of George W. Bush? It seems to focus more on that and Arutyunian's biography could be moved down to focus on the event.