Talk:Vladimir Solovyov (philosopher)/Archive 1

Wife and Children?
Does anyone know if Vladimir ever got married, had any descendants, or why he died homeless?Rivka-bat-Chava (talk) 01:05, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't know about homeless death. He had no wife or children, spent life seeking his soulmate as he wrote many spiritual love poems to girlfriends who did not particularly reciprocate, especially two named (appropriately enough) Sophia (read The Religious Poetry of Vladimir Solovyov, and Divine Sophia by Judith Deutsch Kornblatt). In fascinating scandal at end of his life he was approached romantically by mystic named Anna Schmidt who thought they were the divine couple but he was not interested (read Vladimir Solov’ev and the Knighthood of the Divine Sophia by Sam Cioran, it's rare but mostly readable in googlebooks) Hvbresearch (talk) 22:39, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

I cant find proves for his conversion to catholicism. The most beliveable is that he was Russian Orthodox his whole life, but that he had catholic sympathies and contacts.

Giacomi Biffi inspired by Solovyov
"Addressing a Lenten retreat for the Pope and top Vatican officials, Italian Cardinal Giacomi Biffi has cited a Russian philosopher's "prophetic" warning that "the Antichrist presents himself as a pacifist, ecologist and ecumenist".

Cardinal Biffi, who has been leading this week's retreat for the Pope, cited the warning presented in the work of Vladimir Solovyev, a 19th-century Russian philosopher, about the modern guises of the Antichrist, according to a Catholic News Service report." -- noosph e re 13:14, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Catholicism
from a Catholic magazine: http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1996/9601fea2.asp:

"Which was Soloviev's church? Was he "Orthodox"? Was he Catholic? The data we have are confusing. Soloviev was raised in the Russian Orthodox Church. In 1896 he made a profession of faith in the Catholic Church before an Eastern-rite priest. That priest received him into the Church and gave him Communion. A year later Soloviev became ill and asked a Russian priest to give him Communion. Knowing that Soloviev had earlier been received into the Catholic Church, the priest refused.

"Ten years after Soloviev's death, a Russian priest wrote that he had heard Soloviev's deathbed confession and had given him Communion. The priest also recounted some of the matter of Soloviev's confession, thereby breaking the seal of confession. That deplorable fact by itself, however, is not sufficient ground for ignoring or denying the Russian priest's story.

"So what is Soloviev's ecclesiastical status? By his reception in 1896 he did enter the Catholic Church. Assume that he did, and by his own choice, receive last rites from an Eastern priest. Does this mean-as Easterners argue-that at death he was not Catholic, but a member of the Russian Orthodox Church? However one answers that question, one fact remains: Whatever Soloviev did on his deathbed, there is no evidence that he ever renounced his belief in the infallible teaching authority and the universal jurisdiction of the pope."

Clearly unsettled, but I get the sense that the article is a bit too defensive about the suggestion at the moment. Gabrielthursday 23:31, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Nightingale?
Unexplained is the significance of deriving "Solovyov" from nightingale. Certainly there's no point in pointing out origins of everyone's name. Let's remove the remark if no justification for it can be produced. Myron (talk) 10:30, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed. It seems entirely trivial. Skomorokh  incite 10:41, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page not moved: no concensus after 43 days. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 10:13, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Vladimir Solovyov (philosopher) → Vladimir Solovyov — He was, perhaps, the most renown Russian philosopher ever. Clearly has much more weight than other people with the same name. Twice more articles in other languages compared to the nearest candidate, Vladimir Alekseyevich Solovyov, and ten times more views per day ( vs ). Grey Hood  Talk  15:24, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.


 * (Mild) Oppose: Given that there are four Vladimir Solovyovs, including a journalist who is still alive, I think that the current disambiguation page is the best solution, although I don't doubt the argument about relative importance/fame. DionysosProteus (talk) 20:52, 11 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Support per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Oppose a move to Vladimir Sergeyevich Solovyov if no consensus forms for the nominated move.  Vladimir Solovyov (philosopher) is clearer than Vladimir Sergeyevich Solovyov to an English-reading audience.  —  AjaxSmack   17:08, 20 April 2011 (UTC)


 * "Oppose" I think . . . The title Vladimir Solovyov (philosopher) worked for me. I was searching for him based on a citation in an audio book I was looking for. The label Philosopher was helpful, since I didn't have spelling of his name from the audio book. It helped me pick from a list of options to find the person I was looking for. YMBK (talk) 02:45, 3 May 2011 (UTC)ymbkYMBK (talk) 02:45, 3 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Oppose: strongly agree that title Vladimir Solovyov (philosopher) is most clear given relative obscurity of the full Russian names Hvbresearch (talk) 23:41, 8 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Oppose because with a link to the disambiguation page, the move is simply unnecessary. --Lockley (talk) 18:50, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:

Isn't the trend with the Russia project at the moment to disambiguate with the full name? So, Vladimir Sergeyevich Solovyov. Personally, I prefer the present form, but from what I can gather that seems to be the convention. DionysosProteus (talk) 20:52, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * If there is no consensus for move to just Vladimir Solovyov, I'd also prefer Vladimir Sergeyevich Solovyov. Grey Hood   Talk  12:31, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Keep Vladimir Solovyov Article
I do not hesitate to share that I was so happy to find this article. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.20.180.37 (talk) 22:59, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Request for comment Solovyev is buried as an Orthodox Christian
There is no proof what so ever in Russia that anyone in Russia academia or otherwise refers to Vladimir Solovyov as Roman Catholic. Solovyev remained Russian Orthodox his whole life and died and is buried in a Russian Orthodox Monastery as an Orthodox Christian. Solovyov did not profess in any of his writings or works that he was Roman Catholic nor did he stated that he did not want to be buried in an Orthodox Monastery as an Orthodox Christian. Putting such undue weight on non peer reviewed sources that contradict reality are not up to form for Wikipedia. LoveMonkey (talk) 14:47, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
 * What exactly is the question or disputed text? I don't see anything in the article that claims he was a Catholic. He was added as a Catholic in the categories but who knows who did that. I just removed it because the text does not support it. You don't need to do an RfC for this kind of thing - just be bold and remove it in the future. —Мандичка YO 😜 05:49, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh my thank you thank you so much. I have tried repeatedly over the years to remove this, here is just a brief overview of me bringing it again to an administrator's attention . LoveMonkey (talk) 13:40, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Closed RFC. Reopened RFC - LoveMonkey has made change which looks reasonable to resolve this. RFC can be re-opened if change is reverted or disputed. Aeonx (talk) 05:55, 26 March 2016 (UTC). Updated: Aeonx (talk) 12:07, 7 April 2016 (UTC)


 * The citations submitted are from peer reviewed sources of known scholars. Simply because the source material is originally in German does not mean that Simmen der Zeit is unpeer-reviewed. This could be resolved easily if you could craft a comment with sources that contradict the sources cited (directly or indirectly). Simply reverting the information because you preemptively presume the truth of your position is classic POV activity. There are other articles as well that support the actual debate about Solovyov's religion, you can see an example of that debate above. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:240:C400:C00:6965:59EF:440D:A739 (talk) 06:37, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * How is it that these sources do not account for Soloviev being buried an Orthodox Christian in an Orthodox monastery also why is there NO Mention at all in any of Soloviev's works that he made any such conversion? None. Also none of his Russian peers speak of him converting to Roman Catholicism (Pamfil Yurkevich). Also I can not find in Hans Urs Von Balthasar's The Glory of the Lord, Vol. 3: Lay Styles where it says that Soloviev converted to Catholicism. It says that Soloviev arrived at the Catholic conclusion but that is in context of speaking against a Protestant one. Soloviev was neither Protestant nor Roman Catholic he was Eastern Orthodox so him picking either theology on a matter of a theological question is not the same thing as converting from Eastern Orthodoxy to Roman Catholicism and this is a misrepresentation of Von Balthasar as Von Balthasar does not say that Soloviev converted to Roman Catholicism. Also there are books written about how Soloviev did not convert, , , . LoveMonkey (talk) 13:28, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * As a point of fact, Balthasar does speak of Soloviev's conversion, the quote is from him and he points to the work of fellow Jesuit Henirch Falk. I'm not sure what copy of the text you have, but the English translation has that line, I do not have the German handy. The texts you cite above are not written expressly about Soloviev's Catholic conversion or non-conversion and three of the four indicated that it was a (hotly?) disputed topic. However, I have looked at some of the more recent work and I have edited the article to reflect Soloviev's acceptance of Petrine authority, which is clearly substantiated in his work, without necessarily going so far as to assert his rejection of Orthodoxy and conversion to Catholicism, which you have at least called into question. I hope this will settle the matter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:240:C400:C00:CD8E:2046:C4CC:D16E (talk) 18:26, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Panmongolianism entry in October 2016 inflated, needs pruning in violations of guidelines
UPDATE: After 6 months of fair warning that an inflated section needed significant pruning by the original author who did not respond, I took it on myself to do the work and cited another reference as well. The result is much more fair and balanced within the entire article's scope. (June 27, 2018) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Philosophytalk (talk • contribs) 04:37, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

In October 2016 user A.S._Brown inserted several long paragraphs of what appears to be original research describing in excessive detail a minor point of Solovyov's career, in which in the last decade of his life he voiced some anti-Asian views as he feared the coming of the anti-Christ in keeping with his friend Dostoyevsky's concerns for a collapse of Christendom. In October 1894 he first used the term panmongolianism to speculate that China could be Russia's downfall, and most likely he perpetuated some racist stereotypes as many did at the time. It was well known that Solovyov was becoming increasingly paranoid for the likelihood of world wars which indeed came true in the 20th century, and his death in 1900 was largely due to turpentine poisoning since he wore it and breathed it constantly in an old-fashioned belief that it would ward off evil. (FYI there is much interesting detail for this and more on the Russian wikipedia page for Solovyov)

In any case, I request that A.S._Brown or someone prune the several paragraphs of disproportionate detail regarding panmongolianism, which is barely mentioned in all the major biographies of Solovyov. While interesting and footnoted, it violates several major Wikipedia guidelines including being concise, no original research, and neutral point of view. With all due respect, it appears that A.S._Brown wrote a paper on the subject and wanted to inject his work into Wikipedia for his own posterity. I believe 2-3 sentences on the subject would be appropriate, no more. Others may then wish to investigate whether unbalanced long contributions are a habit of this user. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Philosophytalk (talk • contribs) 22:27, 3 December 2017 (UTC)