Talk:Vladimir Zhirinovsky's donkey video

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page has been moved to Vladimir Zhirinovsky's donkey video without closing the open discussions. Closing the discussions. -- JHunterJ (talk) 17:22, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Zhirinovsky& → Zhirinovsky's donkey – I moved the article to "Zhirinovsky's donkey" for multiple reasons: My move and fixing of the redirects were reverted my User:Russavia. I have no desire to engage this user, so I am requesting that the redirect be discussed as controversial. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 20:15, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
 * the title "Zhirinovsky's ass" is a childish play on words which is being used to malign a living person, and
 * Ass, while in common usage in some parts of the world, is a disambiguation page. The more common Donkey avoids the redirects which littered this article.


 * No-brainer. Silliness. Disruption. Etc. Have restored move. -- J N  466  20:35, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The move is clearly controversial. Please abide by WP:BRD. List this at WP:RM if you feel it should be moved, and you can discuss it here, rather than deciding off-site where it should be. Thank you for your attention. Russavia ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) 21:47, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
 * It is listed at WP:RM. See template above. Thanks. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 21:50, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I know, so discuss it, rather than listing it, and then unilaterally moving it without discussion. This is directed to User:Jayen466. Russavia ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) 21:58, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, as it stands, I consider this article title a BLP violation. BLP violations are removed until there is a consensus to have them in the article. -- J N  466  00:06, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Support: Actually, I just wanted to propose the same move. "Ass" is highly ambiguous, "donkey" isn't.
 * Support: The wikipedia article for donkey is at Donkey and interwikis to Russian осёл. However since does appear to be a BLP violation, I would further suggest a note on BLP noticeboard so that an admin can see this. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:14, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Support. Greatly reduces ambiguity. Jenks24 (talk) 07:06, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Support. So we can move on and ask why it should not be merged with Vladimir Zhirinovsky. Mootros (talk) 08:08, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment. Oh please stop talking about BLP violations. This article is about yet another brilliant performance by a political clown, which Zhirinovsky is (everyone in Russia knows that, including Zhirinovsky himself). With this ass add and its subsequent discussion he tried to produce as much controversy and fun as possible, and there is no point in reducing it. Grey Hood   Talk  09:25, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * He has his standards, we have ours. We don't follow any political agenda, including one of buffoonery and populist merrymaking. -- J N  466  12:32, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I always find it funny when people from WR and WF come onto these projects talking about buffoonery. :) Russavia ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) 12:37, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose. A connotation does not undermine legitimacy of a title - see African wild ass, Mongolian wild ass. 216.16.232.250 (talk) 17:43, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Support. Unless the double entendre works in Russian and is the most commonly used name, it should be "donkey". Inverse Hypercube  (talk) 22:50, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Support per unsigned. Donkey is unambiguous, ass isn't. AIR corn (talk) 07:30, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Support - the most common word for donkey in English speaking countries seems to be 'donkey', not ass. Also, the main page on the animal is Donkey. One thought: Zhirinovskij doesn't own the animal, so it's not really his. The correctness of both titles is therefore in doubt.Malick78 (talk) 14:28, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Weak Support as preferable to the borderline BLP violation that is the current title, but prefer an option that has the word 'video' in the title, since this article is about a video, not an animal. Robofish (talk) 16:44, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment. To make my position clear on this - I do not see particular need to move from "ass" to "donkey", given that the terms are generally interchangeable, and the other articles about "X ass"es exist on Wikipedia. BLP application here is dubious since the media used the term ass as well as donkey, but I cannot make a final judge here as non-native speaker, and for me the difference between "Zhirinovsky's ass" or "Zhirinovsky's donkey" is not really important afterall. But I most certainly prefer "Zhirinovsky's donkey" over "Vladimir Zhirinovsky's donkey video" which is rather excessive title. Grey Hood   Talk  21:55, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 2

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page has been moved to Vladimir Zhirinovsky's donkey video without closing the open discussions. Closing the discussions. -- JHunterJ (talk) 17:22, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Zhirinovsky& → Zhirinovsky's election campaign 2012 –

The main content of this article is about Zhirinovsky's election campaign. Mootros (talk) 08:45, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The idea has meridt - but I wouldn't support a direct move of this content, unless a lot more content can be brought in to complete the subject. Otherwise it would definitely be an "undue" issue. Also might need the year; he is a long term political candidate. But other than that, this idea is the best so far. --Errant (chat!) 09:15, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 3

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page has been moved to Vladimir Zhirinovsky's donkey video without closing the open discussions. Closing the discussions. -- JHunterJ (talk) 17:22, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Zhirinovsky& → Zhirinovsky's donkey video –} In line with the above suggestion and current discussions that the campaign was more than the video, this title is proposed. Mootros (talk) 12:32, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Support. This article is about a video, not an animal. Possibly Vladimir Zhirinovsky's donkey video would be even better for precision. Robofish (talk) 16:41, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Support - about a video, not an animal.Malick78 (talk) 19:12, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Tweak: the current title - Vladimir Zhirinovsky's donkey video - is the best of all in my view.Malick78 (talk) 22:24, 1 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Oppose, though it is better than the current title. Nevertheless, the name of the video is little known, so the title is very artificial. And the Zhirinovsky's donkey is shorter and allows better to categorise the article and to format the intro etc. Grey Hood   Talk  20:56, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment: it's an encyclopaedic, descriptive title. These are certainly allowed.Malick78 (talk) 22:24, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment:Yes, "allows better to categorise the article and to format the intro etc" if you want to write article about someone's donkey. This article is about a video. Mootros (talk) 07:32, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Discussion
Inline with the requested move, it really does not matter which title the article is at, because media use both "ass" and "donkey". However, the "ass" is what the media picked up on after the advert was released, so it clearly needs to be mentioned prominently in the article. As to the actual name, I propose we move it to Proshka, which is the name of the donkey. Russavia ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) 21:58, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeed, by more strict logic the article should be named Proshka, yes. But the term "Zhirinovsky's ass" is much more recognizable, since the name of the poor donkey is little known. "Zhirinovsky's donkey" is also a variant, but currently it gets much less hits than "Zhirinovsky's ass" (the same goes for "Zhirinovsky ass" and "Zhirinovsky donkey"). Anyway, why not rename the article after the 1 April, not now? As for which term to use throughout the text, clearly it should be both "ass" and "donkey", interchanging, since the media have used both terms. Grey Hood   Talk  22:14, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Google News has zero hits for ass, and three for donkey, including the New York Times . -- J N  466  23:05, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Here is an example of the "ass" usage. Strange that Google News doesn't make search over the primary Russian news sources, such as RIAN.  Grey Hood   Talk  23:28, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
 * That's written by a native Russian whose command of English is, shall we say, limited. I'd rather go with the New York Times.  J N  466  00:05, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * LOLWUT. Greyhood's command of the English language is almost at a native level; there may be instance of Russglish, but this is standard for most native Russian speakers when writing/talking in English. Stop denegrating other editors here Jayen466. Russavia ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) 12:46, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Er, Russavia, I'm fairly sure JN466 was referring to the author of the RIAN article, not Greyhood. Jenks24 (talk) 03:19, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

The main content of this article is about Zhirinovsky's election campaign. Mootros (talk) 08:45, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Not exactly. Much of the article tells about the ass and about troika. Grey Hood   Talk  09:19, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * You may find that if you pursue this direction (rather than focusing on the election campaign) that notability is not met. Mootros (talk) 10:40, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * By the way you have removed some stuff relevant to Zhirinovsky's election. And the video was a subject of special commentary by many Russian media sources, devoting whole articles to it. It was not mentioned just in passing. Notability is well-established. Grey Hood   Talk  11:25, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Well that's what we are trying to establish here, whether notability is the case or not. The article did not have the best start because of the naming issues and the extremely weak source like youtube, but I'm sure we can get it into shape in some form or another. Mootros (talk) 11:57, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Please do not mix different issues: one thing is the article's title, second thing is which terms are used in the text, third thing is notability of the subject (which is well-established), fourth thing is referencing (which is mostly good, and few Youtube videos could be replaced with better sources), and fifth thing is your attempts to remove relevant well-sourced stuff from the article (as well as attempts to remove relevant images or make summaries in a way that relevant information is lost). Grey Hood   Talk  12:43, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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