Talk:Vocaloid/Archive 2

Cultural impact
I think the cultural impact of Vocaloid should have a section in this article. Vocaloid songs show up in the Nico Nico Douga Kumikyokus, and weekly and daily rankings of the popularity of various user-made vocaloid songs are posted on Nico Nico Douga, the popular video-sharing site. Also, the importance of Vocaloid as a tool for "open source" user-made music should also be mentioned.Darkfeline (talk) 03:53, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * If any of that can be substantiated with reliable third-party sources then okay, otherwise it's original research.--  十  八  04:05, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

There also needs to be a section discussing criticism of Vocaloid and the fact that many people find Miku Hatsune disturbing.72.66.78.33 (talk) 21:09, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Reliable sources discussing such material would be helpful.--  十  八  22:59, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Some things to note + BRS anime
Under Megpoid there is some random information like 'she calls Gackpoid Onii-chan' and 'her item is a carrot'. While I agree completely with the carrot part both of these things are FAN related. It has nothing to do with the initial design it is simply what the fans have done in response to her character. So should we fix this? Also: A new anime is coming out called Black Rock Shooter based on the song written for and sung by Miku Hatsune. Even though she isn't officially featured in it, the Black Rock Shooter character is based off her image and she still sings the song in the trailers. Shoudl we add something about this? Mew Mitsuki (talk) 00:23, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Black Rock Shooter should get its own article when there's enough info. There needn't be any reference to it here, I think. _dk (talk) 01:18, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The fact that Miku sings the opening theme should be put in, but I'm not sure how it came to be an anime so I don't know if anything beyond that should be included. Derekristow (talk) 05:24, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify, Ryo of Supercell did not base "Black Rock Shooter" on Miku or her image. An artist (Huke) drew an image and posted it to Pixiv seen here. The original image, while perhaps bearing a resemblance to Miku, was not based off of Miku's design. Afterward, Ryo wrote the song "Black Rock Shooter" based on inspiration he received from that image, and then the music video was created after the fact with a character who looked more like Miku than the original image. The point is that the only relation Miku has to "Black Rock Shooter" is that she sang the original song. It's also not set in stone that Miku will still sing the theme songs for the anime, despite Miku singing the song in the preview DVD.--  十  八  06:32, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

RE:Mikus
Those remixed songs are all livetune songs, not supercell songs or anything like that. It needs to be corrected. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.6.204 (talk • contribs)

Additional Anime Appearance
I think Miku also appears in Sora wo Kakeru Shougo (in the final TV episode and one of the picture dramas) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.174.84.195 (talk) 17:24, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Relation between Rin and Len
I don't have the source to back this up, but the Japanese Wikipedia says the official profiles say that are brothers and sisters. And though some technology media claimed they were mirror images, this was not listed in the official profiles. Just fyi. _dk (talk) 09:43, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Let me clarify. This Japanese article, with sources, says the two were supposed to be twins, but they were designed such that fans will make them into twins even without explicitly stating so, so the setting was not written in the official profile. Though it was initially announced that they were mirror images, this was not in the official profile either. _dk (talk) 09:49, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

That is only because of all of the incest things that the 'fans' make the do, as they are just mirror images as Rin sings in trouble-cleft and Len bass-cleft. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.22.164.95 (talk) 02:08, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

terms of use
what are the terms of use for Vocaloid if it was used for commercial applications (i.e. in the recording industry)? what's the domain for these terms? (Japan only, or also including US, Europe, idunno) --Mizukane203 (talk) 13:12, 2 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I couldn't find Yamaha's statement on the terms of use. Crypton Future Media has established a commercial character usage guideline and Piapro Character License (PCL). Crypton's official YouTube channel explains PCL and Piapro Link here in Japanese. Japanese Wikipedia covers these issues |here. The end-user license agreement based on Japanese and international copyright law is here and here. Sorry, I don't know much about other companies. --Shinkansen Fan (talk) 10:28, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Kagamine Rin and Len are not twins. Most people are using them as a twin and thinking they are twins so there are misunderstandings. Yamaha doesn't mention about their relationships. (By a Japanese Fan) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 240F:6:A102:1:BC08:28F5:C0F0:C6EB (talk) 12:13, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

As related to the Miku car
Although others may think this unimportant, I thought I would add that there is a scale model RC car of the Miku Z4. Here is a link:

http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/item.php?product-id=57795 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.214.51.61 (talk) 19:26, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Hatsune Miku 39's Giving Day concert
I think there should be a note about this concert, as this was Hatsune Mikus first solo performance.

There where also guest appearances from Kagamine Rin / Len and Meguine Luka, so this is the first time they've appeared on stage.

Official page: http://miku.sega.jp/39/index.html Uzza (talk) 12:34, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

The other Vocaloids
We've got a lot of info about the Crypton vocaloids, but can we have more on the others. Ah Productions has barely a mention, Zero-G and Power FX aren't even here! 92.232.82.51 (talk) 21:50, 22 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Seriously, this page is SHAMEFUL, it barely talks about the overall Vocaloids themselves and needs serious hacking, possibly even restarting. 94.168.119.106 (talk) 15:41, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it should be time soon to split Hatsune Miku from here and make a separate article.
 * Considering that there's always new stuff happening with her, she needs her own page. At the same time snippets could be added about the remaining Vocaloids. Uzza (talk) 08:28, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

I just want to say, the English Vocaloids came first, yet the Crypton ones are treating more royally here. Heck, the default setting of the Vocaloid program is ENGLISH and if you deleting the files that force it to be Japanese for Mikua + co you get English again. Overall, the page also hardly speaks about the actual program in general and focuses more on Crypton and Miku rather then sensibly focusing on what the Vocaloid program can fully do. And even now, 3 months later after thismessage was put up, the whole page is still as biased towards the non-Crypton and heavy pro-Japanese. Make it fair - get it focused on the program and not the avatars! Heck, you hardly touch the improvements made in Vocaloid 2 over Vocaloid.94.168.119.106 (talk) 08:49, 30 June 2010 (UTC)


 * The Vocaloid wikia tells a person more on their page then this one! Here. 94.168.119.106 (talk) 08:50, 30 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Anybody can contribute to Wikipedia. If you would like to contribute content, I suggest you be bold and just go ahead and edit the article and add in your content with the appropriate sources. --生け花 09:33, 30 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I haven't edited a Wikipedian page since 2004 when Wikipedia pulled the wool over the eyes of hundreds of wikipedians. I'm not about to come back and edit a page now even after this length of time, its not a case of newbie talking here.  I'll point out the flaws IN and page, and give out suggestions to those who are still willing to edit, but I refuse to come back into the wikipedian cycle. I have shared a hate/hate relationship with this site.


 * Truthfully, this page need to be split into Vocaloid and Vocaloid 2 but the lack of information currently on the page prevents that happened. But, rather then focusing on the Vocaloids themselves, the software SHOULD be the focus, individauls can have their own pages if they warrent it (Miku) and everything else should be on a company page.  Crypton on Crypton's page for instance. This is the only focal point left in the Vocaloid fandom that hasn't adapted with the changing times... And to be frank Wikipedia is a start point for the new fans often, so the better this page, the less programs elsewhere in the fandom. Again I point out theres not much of a mention of the English Vocaloids, which is where I'd start the page corrections.  94.168.119.106 (talk) 09:56, 30 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay, fine, since no one will I've attempted to neutal-make this page... All you've got to do is develop it further and NOT let it get Crypton favored pro-Japanese again. Its not too difficult to do and it stops the page getting too fanboyish. 94.168.119.106 (talk) 06:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)


 * What exactly do you mean by "Crypton favored pro-Japanese"? Vocaloid is of much more cultural and economical significance in Japan than in the West, that's a fact; thus it is reasonable to talk more about the Japanese avatars than English-speaking one. Now, I completely agree with the fact that there should be a more detailed technical description of the engine itself.KiruaZ (talk) 15:38, 5 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Take a look at the pre-tweaking set up for this page - how USEFUL was it in telling you about Vocaloids in general? There was HEAVY amounts of information on Crypton, to the point where the only talk on the actaul software itself and its capabilities was in their Vocaloid characters series, not even in the Vocaloid information section itself.  I cut + pasted this bit to it as it made it seem like only the character vocal series was unique, and retweaked the rest so theres now a better layout.   While its natural there WILL be talk about more Japanese Vocaloids, there is no excuse for the way things were set up before. A huge Chunk was about Crypton and the other Vocaloids, which included the other non-Japanese Vocaloids were just briefly mentioned.  AH-Software was mentioned, but nothing on their Vocaloids, Internet co was.


 * As for the English Vocaloids though, this was SHAMEFUL, they got a mention at the start and in the list... And that was it. They didn't even get a paragraph on their companies and were barely mentioned.  From memory, I don't even think PowerFX's name was mentioned on the page, Zero-G were only mentioned in the introduction.  Theres no excuse to ignore a large chunk of the Vocaloid software just because their cultural approach to them isn't the same, especially when the the program by default is English and is first written IN english, and Japanese is just an addition they add later after their satisfied with the English version.  Delete the 6 Japanese language files - the program switches to English automatically, because these are the only things telling it to be Japanese.


 * As I said, the way it was before, gives the wrong impression to a reader. Now, the software is more of the focus. The only thing we lack is the more techical information, which I sadly cannot supply.  I can only supply odd bits and bobs as they come up.  Speaking of which, I need someone to go over my latest stuff I've added, I was getting a bit muddled up with my references.  Its been since 2004 since I did any serious editing, and I've got a lot of "sorry" to go around, since my edits are very sloppy. If not for the serious issues no one simply would adress, I'd still be out. 94.168.119.106 (talk) 09:42, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Finished editing for today, basically I did a little bit of reorganising the page, readded some of the old references that were lost ina different way and added links to some places. My citing isn't great though, but I'm stepping back so someone else can sort out the new additions, theres a lot of new links on the page. 94.168.119.106 (talk) 12:35, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Own Pages
Going over the pre-tweaking page: here, there definately seems room for a Miku page. Also, do all 5 studios have their own wikipedia pages? They would also be nice to link to. If someone kindly sets up pages for all 5 studios, a template can be made to link between all of the Vocaloid pages. This would be benefical, as there are some loose related articles that need to be round up for this page. So if we can confirm if they have or haven't got pages, or create them, someone can come in and work on this.

I sadly cannot create a template myself, as I'm way out of the wikipedia loop too much so to begin on this. I can't work with the greater extent of the wikipedia templates, they've moved on since I last were here. I'd like some of the references to come back that have been lost, but it would be best if we do not turn this page back into what that was, so this is more of a step to recover some of the information in a safe way that won't take back this page into its past version.

Also, everyones thoughts would be appricated if they would. I'm not going to control any of this, I'm just throwing the item out there so it can be discussed and someone else can pick it up. 94.168.119.106 (talk) 11:24, 8 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I managed to readd some of the old information with new updates, that need some fixing (sorry again). This is only the stuff thats "safe" to go back on as they won't push the page back into its old problems, despite being mostly Crypton centred. 94.168.119.106 (talk) 12:02, 8 July 2010 (UTC)


 * There is enough information to easily make a specific article about Hatsune Miku alone. From leekspin, Project Diva and the huge indie community that's been build to the Venus probe and most recently the 39 Giving Day concert. There are lots of things that have been touched by Vocaloid thanks to Miku and she is definitely worth her own page, and Vocaloid it's own template.
 * I would try to help building the pages, but since I don't know Japanese I have a very hard time with sources. And making articles from scratch isn't my strong point either. Uzza (talk) 19:17, 8 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I matched the page to other software pages, someone perfected to it... But your not the only one with "new article crappiness" symdrone. thats why I'm not doing it here. My pereference is making a page more like other pages and taker it away from fanism. :-/  94.168.119.106 (talk) 20:42, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

The Vocaloid 2 bits getting quite big, a note is we may have grounds for splitting the pages soon. In that case, We'd have general "Vocaloid" page and sub-pages Vocaloid (software, or whatever you'd call it) and Vocaloid 2. The editors need to make decisions soon, Project Diva and its sequels would go onto a template. 94.168.119.106 (talk) 06:19, 24 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi, I made the following template to begin with. It's nothing but an incomplete translation of the Japanese template, with only three articles in English, including Project DIVA, but I think it's good for Vocaloid fans.


 * I'm Japanese and sometimes translate Japanese articles into English. I usually cover more serious topics like geography and corporations. Yamaha is a major player in the music industry and Vocaloid seems to be a promising technology, so I might work on these articles. Any suggestions?. --Shinkansen Fan (talk) 06:01, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Unlike the Japanese Wikipedia, much of those articles either do not need separate articles, or can be merged into parent articles. For example, the Character Vocal Series article could go into the Crypton Future Media article; same goes for Piapro. Currently, the two categories under "Music" in that template wouldn't be worth creating here, since there's not enough articles to populate them. Further, not all the Vocaloid products need separate articles. I might agree with a separate article for Miku, but all others can be easily covered in their respective company articles: Meiko, Kaito, Rin/Len and Luka in Crypton; Leon, Lola, Miriam in Zero-G; Gakupoid and Megpoid in Internet; etc. WP:ANIME has also been cracking down recently on anime and manga that do not meet general notability requirements; the already created Maker Hikōshiki Hatsune Mix could soon face deletion, and the currently unwritten Hachune Miku no nichijo ROIPARA! could be deleted if it were to be created.--  十  八  06:13, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. How about this template? I took "Music", "Derivative works" and "Other" out. I admit that these articles looked like a lot of fancruft to me. I keep the characters and developers though. The Miku and Rin/Len pages are rather long, and these individual character pages will likely to grow in the future. I don't know about Zero-G and PowerFX, but Crypton, Internet, and AHS are involved with development of software that is not necessarily related to music. As new technologies such as NetVocaloid, VocaListener, and Vocaloid 3 emerge, more characters and developers will likely enter the market. So I think we need to have room for expansion. --Shinkansen Fan (talk) 07:32, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Expansion should only come when and if information is available. Yes, the Rin/Len article is lengthy, but in my experience in translating info from the Japanese Wiki to here, the Japanese pages tend to be unnecessarily long or formatted in such a way to make it longer than need be. Looking over the Len/Rin article, only the beginning of the article has any real substance, discussing the software and characters. The next section on music CDs could conceivably be merged in a Vocaloid discography or Music of Vocaloid article which would list every and all major (as in non-doujin) releases which featured Vocaloid singers. Considering the recent high-charting albums, I don't see a problem with such an article being created, and having all the music releases in one place could help consolidate things. The other parts of the Len/Rin article are on the manga, games, and other goods developed based on these characters, which also could conceivably go into Vocaloid in an "Other media" sub section. The rest of the character articles are pretty short, and the fact of the matter is, these characters aren't "notable" enough for separate articles. In the end, Miku is the "face" of Vocaloid, as she is the most easily recognizable Vocaloid product.


 * In the end, there is one other option I could suggest. Create a separate Vocaloid 2 article and stick in all the stuff about the Vocaloid 2 characters in there, along with software history and information. The current Vocaloid article on the Japanese Wikipedia has sections for NetVocaloid and VocaListener, so those could go in Vocaloid, as well as expanded info on the 5 Vocaloid products. Vocaloid 3 could later be created after product and software information becomes known.--  十  八  09:55, 5 August 2010 (UTC)


 * As for separate discography and Vocaloid 2 articles, I'll leave it up to other editors. For now I'll keep the template in my user page. I'll start a stub for Miku.
 * Also, I added Yamaha's Vocaloid website (old one) to External links, which describes the synthesis technology. The Japanese article has some information on it too. --Shinkansen Fan (talk) 12:36, 5 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Whatever happens, alll Vocaloid articles must be temple-ized, so any game related article should be taken into account. Also, while UTAU is a seperate program and won't be included in the template therefore, articles related to that program also need to be created since the Vocaloid articles will naturally method UTAU at some point.  Vocaloid is part and large responsible for the UTAU program existence and promotions. 94.168.119.106 (talk) 11:42, 12 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Also, Voiceroid perhaps needs a page. Again though Ah software used Vocaloid to sell it, it might be better off independant like UTAU. 94.168.119.106 (talk) 11:44, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Thinking about this, maybe the articles should be:
 * Vocaloid
 * Vocaloid (software)
 * Vocaloid 2
 * Vocaloid 3

Perhaps like that? One things clear, this article is growing faster then even I expected, now its now become more about all of the Vocaloid, its becoming very large very fast. We have 4 voicebanks in the making. And if V2 is anything to indicate, Vocaloid 3 could be even bigger. 94.168.119.106 (talk) 19:18, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Kagamine Rin/Len Cover Album?
Was fixing through the article when I ran into that line. I don't think there was ever an album released featuring Rin/Len covering other songs? Can the person that added this line clarify which album it is? Or was this the Prism album where Asami Shimoda covered Rin/Len original songs instead? Miyuki (talk) 03:06, 16 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I also think that Kagamine Rin/Len Cover Album is referred to as Prism. I rewrote the sentence.--ACSE (talk) 06:59, 23 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I created a stub for Crypton Future Media. The Japanese article of Ren/Lin has a list of music CDs featuring Rin/Len and a list of original albums and a music video distributed by KarenT, Crypton's own music label. They are available through the iTunes Store. The artists like ja:トラボルタ and ja:mothy also composed the songs included in the Prism album.--Shinkansen Fan (talk) 09:12, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

New pages for Vocaloid and Vocaloid 2?
Think its going to happen before too long. While we can keep a lot of the info on the main page (see Mortal Kombat for such an example), Vocaloid 2 is proving to be getting quite big. If Vocaloid 3 proves just as big, then creating a system now to organise things would be better.

This is all been discussed early, but yet no one made a decision. If you leave it too long, you risk bigger problems later on. Even if the vote is for nothing to be done, better then leaving the issue hanging. :-/ 94.168.119.106 (talk) 06:15, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Kei
If there is a wikipedia page for him, I can't find it but he is the very last thing I need to get up here. Kei also has works in non-Vocaloid areas so it would benefit more then Vocaloid if we could get a page up for him. 94.168.119.106 (talk) 20:59, 7 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Also, he has a page on Japanese wikipedia. 94.168.119.106 (talk) 21:00, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
 * you can do it this way easily

Note
There is both a Vocaloid template and a speech synth template in requests for templates. However, the speech one might not happen and though the Vocaloid one might, it may be a while to process. We'll see. Angel Emfrbl (talk) 18:53, 8 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Both templates made it through, one is added, I was going to add the other today, but due to a problem I have to delay adding to it until tomorrow. Its name is "Template talk:Speech synthesis".  It will appear here tomorrow, I'm still altering it. Angel Emfrbl (talk) 20:08, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Sources?
Hiyama Kiyoteru and Gachapoids voice providers need sourcing before they can go on the page, the others I know are covered by their own sources, but we need confirmation these two are covered by the current provided sources. If anyone can point out which one is covering them, that would be helpful. If not, they need their sources. 94.168.119.106 (talk) 07:57, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Definately going to have to happen
Well sooner or later. Looking over the page, we're expanding on the additional software and several items related to Vocaloid have been added recently, which means we're adding a lot of stuff to the page. I can see it coming, that the page will have to be split indefinate in the near future. I'm going to hang onto a split myself until Vocaloid 3 is with us, to see how it goes. But its a note for the future; its unavoidable and WILL have to happen. Angel Emfrbl (talk) 18:30, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

I will keep an eye on it to help with anything new that is worth adding. DavidR2010 (talk) 01:39, 18 November 2010 (UTC)DavidR2010

Thingamajigtus
Could we restore the Thingamajigtus example http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Thingymajigtus_Vocaloid_Miriam.ogg ? It was removed because "not everybody can hear it" but .ogg is a standard format and as far as I know it's the usual format for audio on Wikipedia. It was useful to have an audio example. 87.114.73.238 (talk) 20:57, 19 November 2010 (UTC)


 * It doesn't matter, its not on the page, its not like you can't look something like this on youtube.94.168.119.106 (talk) 08:50, 22 November 2010 (UTC)


 * The OP is technically right. By the argument that "not everybody can hear it", we'd have to remove all the .ogg files on Wikipedia. So you can't remove it based on that alone. On top of that, "Sakura Sakura" was removed because of a "request by the author", but you can't do that either. Once the author uploaded it to Wikimedia Commons, he/she gave up all rights to it (Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License...), which means we can do whatever we want with it, so I'm adding that back in too.--  十  八  11:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I actually thought the uploader and owner weren't the same. Tell me though, who actually wrote the song, not who uploaded it, was it also the requester? 94.168.119.106 (talk) 11:38, 22 November 2010 (UTC)


 * We have a layout problem with the media files and software image, do we have to fix it? It does look rather arkward. 94.168.119.106 (talk) 11:43, 22 November 2010 (UTC)


 * On the commons page of "Sakura Sakura", File:Sakura Sakura.song.ogg, it says "演奏（合成音声ソフトウェアへの入力）はKanohara (talk)が行いました. " in the summary, which translates to "Konohara performed the music (with the input of a synthesis singing software)." Kanohara uploaded the file, so they have no say in the matter anymore.--  十  八  08:44, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Origins
The software was first developed at the university in Spain according to the article, however the pdf file mentions yamaha developed. BUT, I do want to note here, its important, the article just says "first" and "backed finically by yamaha". In other words, Yamaha funded the inital software - doesn't say the university continued to develope afterwards, and since they developed it for yamaha then Yamaha had the rights to it and could continue working on it after the inital developement. 94.168.119.106 (talk) 08:50, 22 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Theres now a slight edit war going on, despite the fact we've corrected it, the orginal person who pointed out the "flaw" isn't accepting the university note at all remaining. I'm not in the mood for edit wars over this, but the note shouldn't be flat out removed, rewritten again, yes.  Removed?  No. 94.168.119.106 (talk) 12:58, 22 November 2010 (UTC)


 * We still have a edit war with the origins, even though the university is even mentioned on the pdf file the editor in question pointed out. Regardless, I'm looking for a staff member if this happens once more to end the war. 94.168.119.106 (talk) 08:33, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Split discussion; Hatsune Miku page
We're discussing our options with the Vocaloid page on the Hatsune Miku on its talk page. The Hatsune Miku page has problemjs due to the fact its verticually a clone of this page as well, and part of the discussion on that page is how to tackle that problem. Hatsune Miku properly does still warrent a page, but the fact she its mostly copy + paste is letting itself down. 94.168.119.106 (talk) 16:41, 22 November 2010 (UTC)


 * This article should be more focused on the technology. I translated the Technology section from the Japanese article. We have some untranslated material in the Derivative products section too. More detail on the Singer Library and Synthesis can be cited from the refs No.2 and No.7. I will add explanation about library recording to the Technology section.


 * This article looks a little cluttered now. Perhaps we can reduce content by moving Marketing and whatnot to individual Vocaloid articles. As for Hatsune Miku, I think we should list albums available on iTunes Store. Right now only a few music videos are mentioned. --Shinkansen Fan (talk) 03:19, 2 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Its getting cluttered, but perhaps re-organisation? I was going to seperate the Vocaloid 1 and 2 when Vocaloid 3 came along as it is, thus *some* things would be moved with it. You do what you want though, if you think you have a better idea. Either way theres enough content on this page now to expand upon with other pages. 94.168.119.106 (talk) 14:00, 25 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Also, now I think about it, besides Hatsune Miku and perhaps one or two others, there isn't enough for each Vocaloid to have their own articles. Until the time comes for them to get enough information its best they stick together.  However, we might be able to have "Voicebanks" page instead, but I don't know, I'd rather wait until Vocaloid 3 is here before a massive overhaul. 94.168.119.106 (talk) 21:47, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll say it again. Hatsune Miku is the only character who deserves a separate article, since she is many more times more notable outside of Vocaloid than any of the other Vocaloids. You shouldn't create a "voicebanks" article; if you must split, do it among Vocaloid 1, 2 and 3. That's the standard way of splitting software by version number.--  十  八  23:30, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe that's the standard way, but I don't think that really works, except for the Vocaloid template. Vocaloid 1 and 2 don't differ in the system architecture and the business model. Japanewse Wikipedia has no page on Vocaloid 2 and no information on Vocaloid 3. There are greater differences in the voicebanks (character, developer, voice, language, sex, etc.). I'm going to move the text of Software history to each developer (see Crypton Future Media) and insert key features of both versions into this section. The tables of the Vocaloids would suffice. Perhaps we could reorganize Marketing and Cultural impact by developer or product, but I don't have a specific idea now. I'm translating Gackpoid now because it explains the involvement by a notable singer, Gackt. --Shinkansen Fan (talk) 13:28, 26 February 2011 (UTC)


 * While both pages are wikipedia, the things between the Japanese pages and English pages are set up slightly differently. The only thing we're missing is a "reception" section.  If we need a Vocaloid 1 or 2 page, it is quite fine to do things that way even if it ends up different to the Japanese page.  The developers don't just deal with Vocaloid, and in some cases we really need more information on them before moving vocaloid information on there further otherwise to a reader it gives the wrong impression, those pages need some attention first to clean them up.   We seem to be following the standard for english pages anyway (history, cultural impact, critism, legal implications, etc) so its best to stick with that. HOWEVER, I can't deny the amount of references is growing on the page and it is bulking at the sides and seperation is going to have to happen somehow here.


 * Also, we do not have to translate all the information ont he Japanese page here, we have different sources of information recorded anyway off the hat. Just the bits we need for the page here in the english side. There is nothing compelling the Japanese page to match ours any more then ours to match theirs. 94.168.119.106 (talk) 23:07, 27 February 2011 (UTC)


 * While its on my mind, I do note that many of the references could be shifted onto "Vocaloid 2" since most of the references are linked to that version of the software alone. 94.168.119.106 (talk) 02:47, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I cut the sentences which I had copied from Software history to the respective studios and wrote a little bit about the features of Vocaloid 2. Article size has been reduced, but the number of refs is well over 200. Was I too bold? --Shinkansen Fan (talk) 18:58, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Wouldn't KarenT be first Vocaloid label and not Balloom?
Now I could be wrong, but I've always had the impression that KarenT was the first music label to focus solely on Vocaloid music. The only difference between the two is that KarenT was made by Crypton while Balloom, from what I understand, was made by Vocaloid Producers. Uzza (talk) 23:40, 6 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Karen-T does not focus souly on Vocaloid although it was create for Vocaloid, it also does other stuff as well such as UTAU releases (which one such known album happens to have been recorded already on that page for). Balloom is meant to be for Vocaloid only.  So yeah, it is the first focused on Vocaloid alone. 94.168.119.106 (talk) 10:40, 10 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Also to add to this, as others have pointed out in the Vocaloid community, Karen-T is focused on "digital label", it releases only via download whereas Balloom is releasing via hard physical CD copies. Also Karen-T is not a "major" label, they are a "indies" label, in contrast Balloom is intending to be the "major" label for Vocaloid. Basically, the difference between Karen-T and Balloom is noticable. 94.168.119.106 (talk) 10:50, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

the Vocaloid 2 file?
There seems to be a conflict of interest, so there is a suggestion we switch files for something safer.

If anything, I can make a intrumental-less file in a pinch. I have Big Al, Sonika, Prima and Tonio. I'm not sure what to write up though, only reason why I've not replaced this myself. That and I've never uploaded a file directly before... But it would end the conflict. 94.168.119.106 (talk) 11:42, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Okay Vocaloid 3 is announced time for planning
The most likely thing right now is the voicebanks will be moved to their own list page and leave this page to take up notes about the engine. The overall list page of products will have an additional section "Engine version". The list of products upcoming contains Vocaloid 2 and 3 voices now. I'll sort this out tomorrow if no on else does. A little time is needed to let the information flow. 94.168.119.106 (talk) 12:34, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Userboxes
Just been messing around with userboxes, and have created one for Kagamine Len. Posting here so other like-minded individuals can use them on their own userpge. Will add more as I get round to them or feel free to add your own. MrZoolook (talk) 08:55, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

List of Concerts
Do you think it would be a good idea to create a list of official concerts that have been held? Probably on it's own seperate page. AngelFire3423 (talk) 21:08, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The obvious question is have there been enough. I'm all for it in principle, but there need to be enough to make it a worthwhile venture. MrZoolook (talk) 22:20, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I would say so. click me! AngelFire3423 (talk) 03:56, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
 * *shrug* No other comments either way, I'd say go for it. Since it's your proposal, you have the floor :) MrZoolook (talk) 02:54, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Some interesting links
From the good people at crunchyroll
 * Save Miku Campaign
 * Mikumentry Teaser, Chrunchyroll seems to be an awesome reliable source for news now that I look at it.
 * Hatsune Miku Illustrations join the creative commons with some nice quotes from important people.
 * Senbonzakura getting adaptations into all sorts of things. It's the whole BRS phenomenon again, except much more mainstream and popular.

Also another question that's been bother me for a while that I haven't really looked into is why alot of Vocaloid artists use "meterP" (㍍P) in their pennames. AngelFire3423 (talk) 00:51, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * According to Nico Nico Pedia, Vocaloid music producer 40 meterP took his artist name from an illustration of 40-meter-tall Miku who appeared in the video Melody in the sky. Others may be doing the same.--Shinkansen Fan (talk) 17:00, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

concerts
shouldn't this article mention how they appear in live concerts? sincerly, zeroro 18:30, 14 May 2013 (UTC)