Talk:Vogue (dance)

Cleanup
I have performed a rough and fast cleanup and tagging of this article. Seemingly almost the entirety of the article is original research. I removed a huge uncited pop culture type section. I also removed an endless vanity list of "legendary houses" totally uncited and clearly just a target for self promotion. Ridernyc (talk) 03:42, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

Cities and States Listing
Under the "scenes and chapters" subhead, there is a list of vogue capitals. However, only some of the places listed are actual cities. Baltimore, D.C, Connecticut, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh. and Virginia for the East Coast. Connecticut and Virginia are states, not cities. Could someone check the reference and see if this is in the original or if some information was omitted? Ehgarrick (talk) 02:54, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Translation into Chinese Wikipedia
The Version 07:02, 4 November 2019‎ Castncoot of this article is translated into Chinese Wikipedia to expand an existing stub.--Wing (talk) 08:51, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

The Statue (1965-66)
Perhaps there should be at least a brief mention of the "The Statue" dance from 1965-66. It was created by Gazzarri dancers Mimi (Mireille) Machu and June Fairchild for the TV show Hollywood A Go-Go, as acknowledged in the intro to the 1965 performance of Tommy Sands on the show. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Opy0Citsjo Sands' record, "The Statue", gave this fad dance wider influence, though the song was not a national hit. The dance was performed on a number of Hollywood A Go-Go shows, for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bABw58lJRG8. I remember seeing it danced by patrons of Sunset Strip nightclubs in 1965-66. A photo of Mimi and June statue dancing at The Trip can be seen at https://martinostimemachine.blogspot.com/2011/02/in-1965-valentine-and-partners-opened.html June Fairchild wrote about creating the dance and seeing others dance it in public, in her online draft autobiography: http://www.barrsam.com/JuneFairchildBook/JuneFairchildBook.html Pikabruce (talk) 15:12, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Welcome to 2020
"...that aspects of identity like race, gender and sexuality can be fluid and intersecting"

It's so easy to spot what has been added during the two past years. 2001:999:42:CBE5:E8A6:5222:F646:92AB (talk) 20:22, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Madonna image
More than one IP, or user, have changed Madonna image to a random guy, with the idea that Voguing is a dance of black (gay) culture. Not sure if this is valid at all, as Madonna is often associated with the dance from an international perspective, both in press and popular literature. Plus in the image provided, she is surrounding of black dancers. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 14:34, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Also, I added kind of WP:Weight towards Madonna's position in this dance. As previously it was only focused in criticism by appropriation when is more than this. Seems like various users have biased opinions about Madonna with this dance, but as far I can see, it can't be denied the literature about her to the point, that Vogue has been often associated to her figure and is what the infobox image also represent. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 15:05, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * having Madonna as the main image gives her undue weight WP:UNDUE in representing the dance/performance style. Your statement about the "random guy" in the image is irrelevant, he is performfing Old Way Vogue at a Ball culture event at a GLAM institution. Madonna is NOT more associated with this performance style than the community and performers that originated, developed and maintain this culture. This is an encyclopedia not a Madonna fan site WP:NOTFANPAGE. MassiveEartha (talk) 14:56, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Infobox image
Years ago, in 2019 User:MassiveEartha inserted an image in the infobox. I changed back to a Madonna-related image this year, but user reverted the addition arguing that the dance have its origins from the black community, while I mainteined Madonna's figure is significant in the history of this dance to the point that Vogue has been associated to Madonna (and vice-versa) by press accounts or academic discourses; and many aren't outdated views (WP:AGEMATTERS). Even in Madonna pic she is surrounded of black dancers if the racial aspect is extremely matters. I found problematic to solely credited to black community the dance, which as far I can noticed by third-party sources is attributed to the whole LGBT culture normally. Having Madonna's image for the user is kind of undue weight, arguing that this is "not a Madonna fansite" and this is an encyclopedia; however, third-party sources, such as those from scholars have a different opinion from him/her in this regards; even both positive or negative ways. Perhaps, a RfC would help to avoid edit wars. I'll support final results. Thanks, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 15:12, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Request for comment on infobox image
Should infobox remains with the current image, or with a Madonna's related image? Apoxyomenus (talk) 22:50, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
 * The article as it stands looks just right to me. The dance is older than Madonna, so the primary image is something that reflects that (but could we find an image that is itself historic, rather than a 2016 reconstruction?). Madonna appropriately pictured in her section. No complaints here. --BDD (talk) 00:30, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
 * The current image is fine. The Madonna pic is a bit too blurry for my liking. Plus, she already has a section in the article dedicated to her, so her image belongs more in that relevant section. Some1 (talk) 00:37, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep the current image as it is more illustrative than the Madonna one. –– FormalDude  talk  08:02, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Remain with current to avoid WP:UNDUE. No reason to give Madonna undue weight in an article about a dance she didn't invent. Also, anyone opposed to closing this RfC? I feel we've reached consensus. I agree a historical picture would be better. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pickalittletalkalittle (talk • contribs) 18:55, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep My understanding is that Madonna didnt invent this dance. So why should she be illustrated here. Wiki is supposed to be accurate and informative, and not misleading. If people click on this article and see Madonnas picture, to me thats misleading. Or at least can be misunderstood. MraClean (talk) 17:12, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

Biased Madonna section
The second paragraph of the influence of vogue to Madonna is biased and it doesn't mention her truth, but what random articles think about it.

The song lyrically talks about liberation on the dance floor, she never implied the song was dedicated to describe a dance genre, she sings about going on the dance floor. This section needs Madonna's truth too, or the last paragraph needs to be deleted cause the source is biased and unreliable. Johnny Gnecco (talk) 12:26, 9 August 2022 (UTC)


 * While sources of the second paragraph could be poor (eg, Them.us), this perception is relevant in the literature of Madonna or Voguing itself. So its fine giving WP:UNDUE. In the past, the section was very biased as only shown this perception instead of Madonna's own influence in the subculture.--Apoxyomenus (talk) 16:15, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Malcolm McLaren beat Madonna
Sorry all of you Madonna fans but the truth is that "Deep in Vogue" was No1 on US Dance Club Songs Billboard already in 1989 and deserve the credit. Waltz Darling is phenomenal album way before its time. Madonna is always early but never the first. Spirit of Scania (talk) 19:24, 14 June 2024 (UTC)