Talk:Volga trade route

Staraya Ladoga
Staraya Ladoga is not "a modern Russian town". It is neither town nor modern. Both linguistically and historically, it is the same settlement as Norse Aldeigjuborg. -- Ghirla -трёп-  22:44, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

What is Staraja Ladoga then?Of cource,it is a town which is a type of settlement,if you wish.It is quite modern,since it is inhabited by modern people.It is Russian since it is located in Russia and is inhabited by Russians.

Frank Russian (talk) 17:50, 20 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I suppose you mean "etymologically" rather than "linguistically." Beit Or 10:59, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

The Rus' as Swedes
The identification of Rus as norsemen lacks logical and other evidence.Arabs write that Rus used arab-slavic interpreters and modern historians assume that slavic was inernational at that time.As we all know,languages only become international if only a nation of that language is a dominant one itself,so we can't call norsemen "masters of the slavs".Moreover,norsemen have left no or little heritage in Russian language and culture and this would be impossible had they been "dominant".

Frank Russian (talk) 17:45, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

The identification of the Rus with the Swedes is original research, pure and simple. Not only there is no consensus that they were the "Vikings" as Beit Or likes to term them, but, even among the supporters of the Normanist theories, their "ethnic" affiliation is highly disputable. According to all modern research I was able to consult, Rurik (of Dorestad?) and his men are believed to have come from Jutland. Ladoga is built on the model of a Danish town; archaeological coincidences are striking. Most linguists, however, tend to connect the Varangians of Rus with proto-Norwegians: the analysis of their names points that way. I'm not aware of any compelling evidence that the Varangians came from Sweden. Neither there is any proof that "Danes" or "Swedes" were ethnically distinct from their fellow Vikings at such at early date, let alone "Swedes from the Kingdom of Uppsala". Even Wiglaf, renowned for his Swedocentrism, did not resort to such inflammatory assertions. Anyway, this discussion belong to the Rus, rather than to this article. -- Ghirla -трёп-  07:29, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
 * No, the identification of the founders of Aldeigjuborg as Swedes is well-sourced to a famous Danish historian. That they were Scandinavians cannot possibly be disputed anywhere. Beit Or 10:55, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Why the route collapsed?
There are more explanations why the route collapsed than meets the eye. The Dnieper route, after the removal of the capital to Kiev and the steady of weakening of the Pechenegs, provided a lucrative alternative. I don't see which route was was "primary" and which was "secondary". Their comparative assessment needs to be well sourced and substantiated. Other reasons for the decline of this route may include the disintegration of Khazaria, the rise of a hostile Islamic state in the Middle Volga, and the general transfer of trade routes to the south at the period of the Crusades. Please be more careful with your assertions, especially in the lead of the article. -- Ghirla -трёп-  07:36, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Feel free to edit supplying sources. Beit Or 10:56, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Kudos
This is one of the better new articles I've seen on DYK. Nice job, both of you. Dppowell 16:29, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

The Valgia Trade Route
Who says that Valgia / Rha / Jum trade route was founded only by Norsemen? As far as I know from written history this route was mentioned by Herodotos who mentions the route as commercial connection with the Scythians and his Peoples behind the Scythians just as Agathyrs, Neuris, Androfags and Budins. In addition there were Greek Gelons living behind of Scythians in the north along with the Budins. This route was used by the time of Herodotos c.450 BC. with trade to Near East and Persia, even to China and India. According to Soviet sources Finnish tribes in upper Volga and Kama valley acquired bronze tools and swords from the Scythians in exchange of furs. Enormous heaps of bones from fur-bearing animals near the Finnish settlements suggest that the Volga was already a trade-route between forest and steppe. Thus, this route had existed more than 1300 years before the Norsemen arrived into the scene.

JN

Course of the route?
In the text it says that the trade route went from Ladoga up the Volkhov River to Novgorod and then on to River Lovat. This does not seem to agree with the given map File:Varangian routes.png where the red route is labeled as the Volga trade route. Somebody should resolve this contradiction. AxelBoldt (talk) 19:47, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
 * indeed! --HilmarHansWerner (talk) 11:20, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Timing
Arabian sources date Rus (Vikings) trade settlements on Volga (Volga Vikings) as well as on Don and Dniepr as early as 750. — Сергей Олегович (talk) 18:22, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Nonsense. --Ghirla-трёп- 06:19, 10 September 2014 (UTC)