Talk:Voltairine de Cleyre/Archive 1

On Tyrrany
"... so long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrranize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men."

Did she say that?


 * Yes, that is a quotation from the essay "Anarchism and American Traditions", published in two parts in December 1908 and January 1909 in Mother Earth magazine. It was also separately issued as a pamphlet and may be De Cleyre's best-known work. It can be found in the Anarchy Archives at http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/anarchist_archives/bright/cleyre/amertrad.html. Mike Dillon 04:35, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

anarchy link
I have switched the anarchy link from the first paragraph to actually point to the anarchism article, not libertarian socialism. It seems to me that, though at times in her life de Cleyre did lean towards what many now term Libertarian Socialism, her clearest self-stated ideo-political allegience was to "Anarchy without Adjectives", which I feel makes the link discrepancy into a cruel irony. Discuss if this concerns you. Jxn 00:59, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Death date
The timeline in AK Press's book gives the date of her death as June 20, 1912 not June 6. Does anyone know which is correct? What does Avrich's book say? Chaikney 17:52, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * June 6th is the correct date. Emma Goldman wrote in a memorial essay about Voltairine de Cleyre published in 1922 in the Oriole Press:
 * It was reasonably certain that a second operation, if she could have survived it, would have left her without the capacity for speech. Soon grim Death made all scientific experiment on the much-tortured body of Voltairine de Cleyre unnecessary. She died on June 6th, 1912. In Waldheim cemetery, near the grave of the Chicago Anarchists, lies at rest Voltairine de Cleyre, and every year large masses journey there to pay homage to the memory of America's first Anarchist martyrs, and they lovingly remember Voltairine de Cleyre.
 * The essay may be found at http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/Goldman/Writings/Essays/voltairine.html. Mike Dillon 04:21, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * So if she died in 1912, why does it say she wrote an autobiographical essay in 1914? — Ливай [[Image:Anarchy_symbol_neat.png|15px]] 10:10, 31 January 2006 (UTC)


 * A posthumous collection of her works called Selected Works was published by Mother Earth Publishing Association in 1914. It was a 500 page volume edited by Alexander Berkman. We could probably hunt down the quotation and determine the real date, or omit the date from the article. Mike Dillon 16:43, 31 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Dear Wiki people,
 * Voltairine died on JUNE 20, 1912. June 6 is wrong. See Avrich, p. 236; "Famous Anarchist Dies," Evening Bulletin (Philadelphia) June 21, 1912, p.1.
 * Thanks, Robert Helms

by the way I have the death certificate. City of Chicago; June 20 1912; #16758 --R. Helms

Dyer D. Lum
The article says: "her teacher, her confidant, her comrade". Who is being quoted here? If it is de Cleyre, then there it should probably be rendered "[her] teacher, [her] confidant, [her] comrade", or some such as it seems unlikely that she whould have said "her" herself. It should probably be attributed to whoever said it. --Taobert 00:04, 23 December 2006 (UTC)


 * It's from Hippolyte Havel's introduction to the Mother Earth edition of de Cleyre's works. p.12. Libertatia 00:18, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

'Real Anarchist'
I enjoy her concept of 'real anarchist'.



—Preceding unsigned comment added by NantucketNoon (talk • contribs) 11:21, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Free Love
The article currently lends primary importance to Voltairine's role as a "free love activist." I am modifying this to conform with available sources, which characterize her as principally a "sexual equality" activist (eg. see http://voltairine.org/biography.php - "themes of sexual equality and feminism provided the subjects of frequent lectures and speeches in Voltairine's years of activity") and not a "free love" activist (eg. see http://library.nothingness.org/articles/SA/en/display/338 - "not active in the so-called Free Love movement"). The present article's peculiar emphasis has been irritating me for a long time, but I didn't have energy to look at the sources until now. - N1h1l (talk) 03:39, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Not a communist anarchist
I have corrected the opening summary to correspond with what her biographer Paul Avrich says. The previous summary claimed that she evolved into "stateless communism." This claim not only contradicts what Avrich said, it also contradicts what is said further down the page. The reference to Avrich is provided: pp. 147-149 of his biography of her.

Sharon Presley (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 03:11, 19 November 2011 (UTC).

File:Voltairine de Cleyre (Age 35).jpg to appear as POTD
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Voltairine de Cleyre (Age 35).jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on March 8, 2014. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2014-03-08. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. Thanks! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:57, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

As much as I value keeping de Cleyre as well represented as possible...
The paragraph that begins "However, de Cleyre's beliefs..." uses sources that are clearly not from the end of her life. The first quote comes from "Anarchism" which was published in 1901 (the "1914" date comes from when Selected Works was published, not when Anarchism was). While Making of was published only 2 years later (1903). Her works on the Paris Commune, the Mexican Revolution came much later.

Although I disagree she became a communist (her "Correction" in 1907 and "Anarchism and American Traditions" in 1908-9 as well as "The Dominant Idea" in 1910 are better sources if you want replacements) these are not good sources to prove that.

Here are my sources for the dates I've provided: http://wiki.libertarian-labyrinth.org/index.php?title=Chronological_Bibliography_-_Voltairine_de_Cleyre — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:18D:8D80:4EAD:187D:24D7:E3BF:76DA (talk) 02:50, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I updated the article tag to mention the discussion here. I wish I had sources to contribute myself but I don't. Woodroar (talk) 22:48, 10 August 2017 (UTC)