Talk:Vulcanization

Devulcanization
The section needs to be cleaned up. The first and third paragraphs end with the same sentence, and the composition of the text is rather messy. - CannibalSmith 13:16, Wed June 1 2006 (EET)

Some of the history talk should probably be merged with Rubber...

The External link about the MesoAmericans is not working

This doesn't look very encyclopaediac. Needs to be re-written to sound less like a book for teenagers to interest them in science.

Vulcanisation process
The list on vulcanisation systems is interesting, it indicates a generalistions of the concept to other elastomer crosslinkers. However, information is needed on which systems these other crosslinkers are used and how. Is deuce really something used for vulcanisation and what is it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.227.15.253 (talk) 10:08, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Vulcanized EPDM Scrap
www.geocities.com/epdmrecycle

This doesn't look very encyclopaediac. Needs to be re-written to sound less like a book for teenagers to interest them in science....mmmmmmm GEEK.

'Kipedia said vulcanized was the way to go. But I dang old knew better. Galvanized, galvanized, galvanized, that's what I always say!

i think there is some mix up here as vulcanizing and curing are 2 different things, to vulcanize is to bond rubber to metal, rubber, etc this is the process using heat and preasure where as to cure rubber is heat and preasure without the bonding ability. the process of vulcanizing is used to join conveyor belts and lag pulleys etc which includes curing in this process. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 135.196.89.56 (talk) 11:25, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

History
I have extracted the following: -

'The history of vulcanized rubber goes back to prehistoric times. The name "Olmec" means "rubber people" in the Aztec language. Ancient Mesoamericans, spanning from ancient Olmecs to Aztecs, extracted latex from Castilla elastica, a type of rubber tree in the area. The juice of a local vine, Ipomoea alba, was then mixed with this latex to create an ancient vulcanized rubber as early as 1600 BC !

Furthermore, the Aztecs and Mayans created a non-vulcanized rubber by extracting natural rubber latex from the Hevea brasiliensis trees in the local forests. They formed the latex into balls, and played the Mesoamerican ballgame with the resulting bouncy balls. The losers were sometimes ritually executed.

and

From these early days to'

Due to the fact the reference cited for these large claims was a document with NO academic value what so ever, it is merely a module outline for a course that claims the above, but does not give any citations as to it's state of claim. Thus, either find additional references (given the significance of the claim) or we'll leave it here in limbo until someone stumbles across something to reinsert it or extrapolate. 211.30.71.59 02:59, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I put the first paragraph back in with a credible reference. Rgsmock 23:59, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

The historical account of the discovery of the process is very weighted in Goodyear's favour. Hancock received the first patent for the process. (But what can we expect - the article was probably written by an American.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.151.143.105 (talk) 16:13, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Here is another reference to ancient Mayan use of vulcanized (or at least stabilized) rubber. See: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/6/100628-science-ancient-maya-aztec-rubber-balls-beheaded/ --Lbeaumont (talk) 12:08, 29 November 2019 (UTC)


 * I think there needs to be a historical section that DOES link back to the article on Goodyear at some point. You can't predict where people will start reading and without links like this, they can miss important information.

100.15.127.199 (talk) 15:56, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

This is not vulcanization
The reference provided shows a particular type of processing of natural rubber that was known to Mesoamericans when Europeans arrived, not actual vulcanization. With this original processing, the rubber still became sticky when hot, brittle when cold, and was much less durable. Vulcanization refers specifically to the addition of sulfur under high heat. Prior to the addition of sulfur, rubber approaching modern properties of durability did not exist. It is not accurate to say the Mesoamericans had vulcanization since they did not add sulfur. What they had was a different method of stabilization that would be vastly inferior to actual vulcanization. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hubbardaie (talk • contribs)

I changed the following statement:

"The history of vulcanized rubber goes back to prehistoric times." to "The history of processed rubber goes back to prehistoric times." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hubbardaie (talk • contribs)

vulcanization is not synonymous with curing
After making the changing discussed immediately above, I reviewed the article further and find that this confusion is more deeply imbedded in this article. The entire first paragraph equates vulcanization with any type of curing of sulfur - which is not the case. Curing of rubber with some process has indeed been around for long before the Europeans discoved rubber, but the term vulcanization was coined specifically to refer to the curing process that involved the addition of sulfur at high temperatures. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hubbardaie (talk • contribs)

The wikipedia article on rubber states this correctly: "While the ancient Mesoamericans did not have vulcanization, they developed organic methods of processing the rubber with similar results". Although the use of the word "similar" is loose here - since proper vulcanization makes a much more durable product - it is true that the ancient process improved the durability of natural rubber. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hubbardaie (talk • contribs)


 * We need to come to some agreement on this topic. The entry on curing is woefully inadequate.  The vulcanization article is only applicable to sulfur curing as written.  It is not clear in colloquial use tha vulcanization only refers to sulfur cures. Delmlsfan 00:48, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Vulcanization IS Synonymous with Curing
I checked three sources: "the Vanderbilt Guide to Rubber Compounding"; Morton's "Rubber Technology"; and the Rubber Division's "Basic Rubber Compounding". In all three the word vulcanization is defined as curing (crosslinking) all types of rubber, not just sulfur cures. Vulcanization was indeed coined for sulfur crosslinking, but has expanded beyond its original definition. Delmlsfan 23:06, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

RTV
There appears to be no page detailing room-temperature vulcanization. The page RTV includes this as a meaning, but simply describes it in one sentence. Perhaps it should get its own page or else be described more here. —Ben FrantzDale (talk) 14:49, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

mesoamerican vulcanization process
the mesoamericans did indeed add sulfur to the latex to make their balls —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adrian lugo18 (talk • contribs) 04:12, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

i took the liberty to edited the history section regarding the mesoamerican technique....the plant Ipomoea alba or more commonly known as the morning glory is a natural source of sulfur, and when added to the latex, the mesoamericans were then able to produce vulcanized rubber 3,000 years before Charles Goodyear —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adrian lugo18 (talk • contribs) 05:26, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

here is a link to a BBC documentary briefly describing the mesoamerican method (FF to 3:30)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKG4Pdb52NY&feature=related —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adrian lugo18 (talk • contribs) 05:33, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Too much "very"
This article relies to much on the use of the word "very". Perhaps, someone would like to find more descriptive words, or arrange sentences to reduce, or eliminate the use of the word very. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.253.12.31 (talk) 03:10, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I copy edited most of them out. Wizard191 (talk) 12:13, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Unencyclopedic content, corporate advertising, and spam
An entire paragraph of this article read like an investment prospectus, touting company names with lots of peacock terms. I removed it.

Please delete any new content resembling corporate spam.--Bodybagger (talk) 03:20, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Goodyear - Shehan Massachusetts
There is no Shehan Massachusetts. Some one needs to determine where he lived.

71.126.224.3 (talk) 18:34, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

"Western world"?
If native american populations used rubber for centuries before anyone else, how can it have remained a "curiosity" in the "western" world? Maybe whoever wrote it meant Europe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.53.125.90 (talk) 02:29, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Animal fat?
Is it true that vulcanized is produced using animal fat? And if it is can it be edited in somewhere? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.6.11.142 (talk) 00:20, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Edit:

I've also just read that it is usually achieved through using tree sap/plant fats instead of animal fats (as that's cheaper)?

If anyone could shed some light on this issue for me I'd greatly appreciate it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.6.11.142 (talk) 00:30, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Vulcanization methods
Under Vulcanization methods it says "A variety of methods exist for vulcanization.The economically most important method (vulcanization of tires) uses high pressure and temperature". This suggests that the heat and pressure alone are used vulcanize the tires. Am right in thinking that a curative needs to be added to the mix first and the heat and pressure are used as a catalyst to speed up the vulcanization process and mold the tires? Richerman   (talk) 18:04, 29 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes - a curative agent (such as sulfur) is almost always required, and the purpose of heating is to activate the chemistry between the curative agent and the polymer. The purpose of the applied pressure is to avoid the formation of "blow" or voids in the rubber that can form due to volatilized gases.  An example of crosslinking without heat and pressure would be radiation-curing, but this is a tiny niche compared to the more traditional process.  See

doi: http://dx.doi.org/10.5254/1.3538317
 * M. R. Krejsa and J. L. Koenig (1993) A Review of Sulfur Crosslinking Fundamentals for Accelerated and Unaccelerated Vulcanization. Rubber Chemistry and Technology: July 1993, Vol. 66, No. 3, pp. 376-410.

doi: http://dx.doi.org/10.5254/1.3544699
 * D. S. Pearson and G. G. A. Böhm (1972) The Radiation Curing of Elastomers. I. Physical Strength. Rubber Chemistry and Technology: January 1972, Vol. 45, No. 1, pp. 193-203.

AresLiam (talk) 19:35, 29 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for that, I've edited the sentence to make it clearer. Richerman    (talk) 19:54, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

How much of this article is off the cuff speculation?
Just curious how much of this article I should trust after reading the part in 'Recycling' that estimated North American tire waste: . "...North America alone generates approximately 300 million waste tires annually...". . I'm going to go with 'No', even though it is merely highly improbable. The United States has well over 3/5ths of the population of North America and per capita drives far more than North America. The US in total drives about 7 billion miles annually. Being very conservative and doubling that for all of North America and adding another billion for calculation ease, yields 15 billion miles annually. Assuming 4 tires per vehicle ( I know some have more, but the average is very close to 4, and easily compensated for by the annual miles overage margin) yields 60 billion annual tire miles. . Tires would have to be lasting only 200 miles, on average, for North America to be creating 300 million waste tires annually. Clearly this figure is not based in reality, or even fabricated with rationality. . I can safely assume the other tire waste numbers are similar fabrications, but how far should my distrust extend? the section? the entire article? Any article that starts with the letter 'V'? . 70.171.44.124 (talk) 13:20, 24 January 2014 (UTC) BGRIFFIN
 * I agree that these statements are probably way off. The claims were unsupported.  These articles take time to develop, and some embryonic articles in Wikipedia consist of wishful thinking or tangential information.  I don't know why tire recycling topic is even in an article about vulcanization because I don't think that the process can be reversed.  Thanks for noticing the problem.--Smokefoot (talk) 13:48, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Keypad image
There's an image of a remote contol pad with a caption that suggests that it's an typical example of "LSR moulding". Neither the Vulcanization article NOR the Silicone Rubber Keypad article reference this alleged "LSR moulding" technique in any way. Anyone care to explain or remedy this situation?  Illini407  talk 05:45, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Photo request
I think this article would do well to have a picture of a sample of traditional vulcanized rubber--you know, the stuff Goodyear developed in the 19th century. I know everyone's seen it, but it seems kind of weird that the only photo on the page is of a silicone keypad. Lockesdonkey (talk) 20:40, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Vulcanization Accelerants
Wikipedia has a article detailing vulcanization accelerants (Vulcanization Accelerants). I feel that information should be merged here - however that would leave Accelerant existing solely as a content-fork of fire accelerants, in which case it should be converted to a disambiguation page (or some-such). Opinions? --Project Osprey (talk) 14:21, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Do what you think is best. BTW, it would be a lot easier to write an article just about sulfur vulcanization. So one related option:
 * simplify vulcanization by abbreviating the section on sulfur vulcanization
 * have a full article on sulfur vulcanization, including the accelerator section.
 * This approach allows the casual reader to appreciate vulcanization in a broad. BTW, we need an editor who (better than I) understands the role of the cure package components.--Smokefoot (talk) 14:38, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
 * That's probably a better idea. I don't really know enough about vulcanization to write such a page without a tertiary source to help me. I'll see what I can find.--Project Osprey (talk) 15:28, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
 * What do you think we should call the article?

... --Smokefoot (talk) 15:48, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Sulfur vulcanization/Sulfur vulcanisation
 * Vulcanization (sulfur)/Vulcanisation (sulfur)
 * Probably Sulfur vulcanization. The mother article is Vulcanization so we should continue to use the American spelling (sadly). Also, a search coming back with: 'Vulcanization' 'Vulcanization (sulfur)' might confuse some, I think even most chemists think vulcanization begins and ends with sulfur  --Project Osprey (talk) 17:46, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
 * . OK, I made the big change. If you get a chance, please inspect vulcanization and sulfur vulcanization. --Smokefoot (talk) 13:42, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Will do! --Project Osprey (talk) 09:32, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

Suggested merge
A lot of duplication with Sulfur vulcanization so I suggest they should be merged, probably under the simple title. Chemical Engineer (talk) 20:06, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Concur. This page should be merged/redirected to Sulfur vulcanization.Yilloslime (talk) 00:06, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment. If you look at the just preceding section on this very page, you will see that this very topic has been debated.  You are correct, substantial overlap.  Most ordinary folk, including me, assume that "vulcanization" is dominated by crosslinking unsaturated polymers with sulfur.  But I am not certain of that assumption.  Good luck. --Smokefoot (talk) 00:16, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Disagree: You're not wrong that the sulfur stuff dominates but there are still other types and information on them would just be lost within the merged article. Project Osprey (talk) 21:24, 15 June 2024 (UTC)